So, I'm starting to think about getting my first depower, and I thought I would seek the advice of you fine people here at PKF.

First of all I'm a big dude, hence the name. About 6'3" 290# and plenty strong. To this point I've been flying fixed bridles, some little (1-2m) trainers and I have a 3m Beamer III. I've flown in all wind conditions and haven't had much of any problems (which I attribute somewhat to my bigness).

My original intent was to get into snowkiting in the winter and ATB in the summer, so I bought the beamer to learn the ropes and get used to a 4 line kite (I've flown 2 line stunts since I was a kid). I've been loving the beamer but am starting to feel like I want more, so I think it's time to move up to depower and I was wondering what my best options are.

I'm an experienced snowboarder, and I tend to favor carving over trying to get big air, not to say I don't want to do any jumping, but it's almost a secondary issue for me, stability is more important than lift. I fly inland so something the eats gusts is good for me, typically 10-20mph winds around here.

I don't want to spend a ton of money but I don't mind spending to get the right equipment. This is what I've been looking at:

Pansh Blaze II - Cheapest option (for new), but not RTf, what's a good bar to pair with it?

Ozone Access XC - probably the most expensive option I'm considering, am I getting what I pay for?

HQ Apex - affordable option, All my other kites are HQ and I like 'em

HQ Montana III - now that the IV is out, I've found the III for equivalent price of the apex.

I know I'm laying a lot down, and I'm not looking for opinions on each kite, but if you have one you like over the others let me know why!

Finally, what would be a reasonable size to start with? My first instinct is something in the 6m range, to get used to the power and also the depower system on a small kite, but I want to start with an "all-arounder". I don't want to spend a ton of money on a small depower that wont even pull me across the lake....

though to evaluate as I dont have as much muscle as you do, (with all respect ;-) )

I am 185# and my smallest depower is a 8m for snow, but I admit I could use a 6m sometimes for strong winds +25knots.

I feel like a 6m for you would be kind of a trainer for you, but when you get to an ATB with rolls on firm grass, you'll see it takes much less power than on snow or water to get pulled.

A 6m depower is roughly equals to a 4m fixed bridles.

So if you intend to keep your beamer 3m, then I would suggest at least a 8m depower. Later you will want to add bigger sizes like 12m, and even more for light winds.

I hear the Ozone XC Is a great kite for gusts. great stability and great for beginners. Low Lift and pulls like crazy. great first depower. I went and started my first depower with the Montana. I love it. but it is intended for freestlye and does have lift. but still IMO a good kite for brave beginners. The Apex 2 is suppose to be a great kite too, comparable to the Ozone Access XC. They also have a Simpler Bridle than the Montana. guess it all comes down to personal preference between the 2 ......if you choose to go with the Apex or Ozone I say get that 7.5 Apex or 8m Access

I have little experience except with the HQ Montana. I love that kite and wanted to also advise you on kite size. Unless you routinely have over 15mph winds with lots in the 20-25 range, you will want at least a 9.5 if you get a Montana. That is primarily what my 14 year old son uses and he is about 95 lbs but he routinely has 8-12 mph winds and is landboarding on rough grass and hard sand beaches. You can handle the 9.5 easily if you have typical winds 20 and under. There is nothing wrong with any of the kites you mentioned but the pansh will require some involvement to get a bar and get it attached and adjusted so that it works properly and you (just like me) wouldn't really know what to mess with if something was amiss. Maybe get more of a mainstream kite for your first depower and with experience you could handle the hassle of getting the pansh ready to do some work for you.

Welcome to the forum!

Yo bigben91682, you are welcome to try my Blaze II before you make your decision. I am a big fellow myself, 6'5" @ 265 lbs, and I love my 10m. In fact, I just had it out at Frear Park just the other day after class. I was only out for an hour or so and the snow was terrible. It was more like 3 layers of ice with powder in between, but overall it was great to take her out and fly. My harness will most likely fit you as well, so if you're interested, hit me up.

^^^ super great offer ! This will give you more of an idea of what size you want.

I appreciate everyones advice, especially regarding size. I was wondering if I was aiming a little low with something in the 6m range, but I always forget the fixed bridles are going to have more power for the equivalent size. At some point I'll decide which one I want, and I'll shoot for something in the neighborhood of 10m.

Joover - I'd love to take you up on your offer, maybe before the lakes melt around here. Problem is I'm away on business and vacation for the next 3 weeks....once I get back maybe we could get together and fly. What kind of harness do you use? I was thinking I would get ozone access xc harness once I take the plunge, looks to fit the bill, especially for a big fella.

That's fine, whenever you get a free chance just send me a U2U or something. Currently I'm using a Maui magic force shield seat harness 2008, size extra extra large. (the biggest they offered). I decided on a seat harness cause I didn't know how the waist ones would fit and a lot of people complain that they ride up on them a lot. You definitely sacrifice flexibility and movement a little with a seat harness. If mine fits you, you will see exactly how it is. I don't know the kind of bar that I'm using with it, lol, I got it in a package deal from Dakitez. Even if we don't get to a lake it's not a big deal. SUNY Albany has a huge circular area on campus that would be perfect for a few trial runs. Frear Park is actually a golf course here in Troy, and there is plenty of room, so it happens to be my new favorite spot.

The 7.0m Montana III I had this past summer had no problem dragging my lame butt down the beach. You have about 50 pounds on me. The winds here when I flew this bird were 10 - 20mph. Even the Apex 5.0m that a friend has would give me a good pull.

BigBen
You are smart to ask about the price of a de-power bar to go with the Blaze II. Current model de-power bars go for around $170-180 for starters, so the Blaze II may not be the bargain some think. You will see some cheap de-power bars on-line, but often they are for older C-kites or or other Inflatables and would required some mods- not a good idea for first timers, I think.

Yes there are some new Montana III's still out there on close-out, and maybe some occasional used ones. Fine kite.

Quote:

Originally posted by bigben91682 I appreciate everyones advice, especially regarding size. I was wondering if I was aiming a little low with something in the 6m range, but I always forget the fixed bridles are going to have more power for the equivalent size. At some point I'll decide which one I want, and I'll shoot for something in the neighborhood of 10m. Joover - I'd love to take you up on your offer, maybe before the lakes melt around here. Problem is I'm away on business and vacation for the next 3 weeks....once I get back maybe we could get together and fly. What kind of harness do you use? I was thinking I would get ozone access xc harness once I take the plunge, looks to fit the bill, especially for a big fella.

Hey!! Big Ben! I see you are lookin' for a Blaze II 10m? To toot my own horn I'm selling mine and it has the bar and lines all ready to fly!
http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=8415
There's the link for ya!

If you are flying in gusty wind conditions you may also want to look at an arc ?

It would seem like Arcs are going almost free for the price of the bar lately ! They take a slightly different style to fly but since you don't have a style chosen, why not ?

Something like a 10 or 13m would be a good start for a big guy like you.

acambell - you make a good point about getting a Blaze II, a decent bar is going to be as much or more than the kite. I will probably get something more mainstream like you suggest, unless I can find one RTF, I wonder where I could do that? (JK fOrgiv3n)

Jovver - re: the harness. The XC looks to be a crossover seat/rock climbing type harness with "one size fits all" but I read somewhere it goes up to a 50" waist....which I'm not even close to that big. It's made specifically for snow to go over heavy pants/coats. I'm sending you a u2u with some other questions.

I've played frear park, I think I shot a 82, that would be a great place to go kiting. Shame about the snow around here lately though. I'll have to check out SUNY Albany, I live really close to the campus to begin with.

Bladerunner - re: Arcs. Are they typically LEI or twinskin?? At this point I'm going to avoid anything inflated, open cell for the time being, I figure I'm still learning and I don't want to pop anything. Is there such a thing as an open cell arc? I was under the impression they are mostly for on the water activities, and thus inflatable in some way or another, be it force air or with a pump.

Quote:

Originally posted by bigben91682 Jovver - re: the harness. The XC looks to be a crossover seat/rock climbing type harness with "one size fits all" but I read somewhere it goes up to a 50" waist....which I'm not even close to that big. It's made specifically for snow to go over heavy pants/coats. I'm sending you a u2u with some other questions.

The Access XC harness is pretty nice. The one size thing seems to work okay. I'm not a big guy and I'm able to get the harness cinched up nice and tight.

If snow/land are your objectives I think this harness is a good choice. Plus you don't have to worry about ordering the right size.

That XC harness does look pretty cool. Another reason I went with the largest available seat harness size was so that it would fit over my coat and snow pants comfortably, and it does, so I am pretty happy with it. It definitely looks like the XC would give you more flexibility.

Quote:

Originally posted by bigben91682 Bladerunner - re: Arcs. Are they typically LEI or twinskin?? At this point I'm going to avoid anything inflated, open cell for the time being, I figure I'm still learning and I don't want to pop anything. Is there such a thing as an open cell arc? I was under the impression they are mostly for on the water activities, and thus inflatable in some way or another, be it force air or with a pump.

NO Peter Lynn arcs are twin skins. You won't go zipperless !

Usually Lei type kites are refered to as C, Bow , or Hybrid kites. Arcs and Peter Lynn are in a world of their own !

There has been a LOT of talk on here about arcs lately. Almost all positive. Many people are moving over to them because the found their Flysurfers, Montanas Et All disppointed them in the bad gusties. Arcs strongest points are that the absorb gusts real well and they " auto zenith " . They handle in the same basic manor as the other 4 line kites on a bar. Launching and landing are quirky but it's all what you get used to.

Take some time to get a good understanding about these kites. They are a good option and the prices are crazy cheap !

Blade's right, once you see a Arc taking 10 mph gust and the guys sitting down having a sandwich and it sits up top in auto just sucking up the gusts. I just became a convert and picked up a Scorpion going out tomorrow. They are a bit of a pain to launch but worth the effort. Its amazing when your out on a fixed bridle and you see a Peter Lynn and the whole day it never touches the ground. If you get a chance try one.

Cheers

Update: I ended up buying a RTF blaze II 10m from friendly neighborhood fOrgiv3n. He's already got it dialed in, the bar is decent, and the deal was too good to pass up. Jovver, who is local, has the same kite so I'm sure he'll be able to help me through any kinks that may arise from my newbness.

Can't wait to start flying, but I will have to wait for it to show up in the mail.

Welcome to the neighborhood and congratulations on your first "real" kite. Lots of fun waiting to be had.
Kite safe.