Well, I've been powerkiting for almost 2 years now. I've heard all the talk about how great depower was and asked tons of questions. I've never really gotten to the bottom of why they are better because I've never flown one in winds that were strong enough to make the system work. Yesterday at Amelia Island FL, the wind was blowing 15-20 but it was smooth and almost dead onshore. I decided it was time to get out the Montana and one of us was going for a ride. I had that feeling in my stomach that this was a bad idea but I've heard here for almost 2 years about you guys taking 8-15m depower kites out in winds that would have me reaching for a 2-3m fixed bridle. So out we go. I unwound the lines and staked it out on the brake handle. I unpacked the kite and it sat there happily at attention. Now is when I have to go "ride the bull". That's what I felt like as I hooked in the chicken loop while holding the brake strap tight. I slowly let out the brake strap while turning the kite to the left with the bar. As it lifted off and turned to the side, all went well. From the side of the window, I easily turned the kite towards zenith double checking where the safety release was. (Can you tell I was a little apprehensive?) The kite pulled all the way to the zenith without hurtling me into space. Ok, maybe this won't be so bad then. I tightened the power strap a little and everything tightened up on the kite and it seemed to become perfectly stable. Ok, now I can enjoy flying and started exploring the window. I was flying static so didn't dip down into the power zone very far with mostly 18 mph winds, but went from 9:00 to 3:00 and back over and over feeling out how the kite behaved. This kite is fantastic!

After realizing I was in total control, I started to explore with pulling in on the bar. At the edge of the window, pulling in the bar would add pull and tighten up the fabric. This was helpful if it had overflown the window slightly, because a tug on the bar put more of the face of the kite in the wind and made it fly like a wing is supposed to. At zenith, if I pulled the bar in, it just caused the kite to drop down in the window slightly. With the kite moving, it would fly faster with the bar out, but turn faster with the bar in. You know what comes next. With my new confidence and to expand on my new love affair with this gorgeous kite, I started with small turns at zenith and pulled the bar in. The faster the kite was moving when I'd turn and pull in the bar, the higher I would go. I got brave enough for it to lift me 5-6 feet eventually. I need to refine the timing of the bar pull to add some float to the landings, but I landed every jump perfectly without ever falling. The biggest thing is knowing the lift is controllable even at zenith. It never once lifted me that I didn't explicitly tell it to.

I can see some fun times ahead with this kite in the buggy. I now know I can control it, and it likes 12mph plus for wind. So about the time I'm starting to get nervous with the 4.9m Reactor, heck why not double the kite size! I finally understand what I've read and what several of you have attempted to get me to understand in the past. I need to refine my kite landings somewhat in high winds but I'll take a lesson from one of my SFKA buddies next chance I get.

I wonder if all depower kites are this inspiring, but no doubt, this Montana IV has got it right. I told Wexler when he found me flying it on the beach I LOVE THIS KITE!

I had some nice speed runs with your MIV at OOBE field..................nice kite indeed....................even with the punchy on/ff winds, that M4 was sweet.....solid, stable and fast thru the window.........the M3 was/is sweet but HQ seems to have improved on the line again............yeah you got another nice buggy motor there BB

M jealous m jealous m jealous:D BB is the bridal the same setup as the M2? I thought I read that somewhere. I know you didn't get much fly time with the M3. But do you know what got improved over the M3?

A guy I was kiting with yesterday stated that the M4 vs the M3 has a lot more depower. Never having flown either, I cannot honestly say. But that was his comment...

the canopy is a different shape at the tips and trailing edge...........depower line uses clam cleat............:duh::duh:

I can Honestly say i do feel safer with the M3 over the M2 in terms of depower. Maybe too cause my M2 is a 7m and it's a little twitchy and quick in the sky. Maybe next year i will get BB's M4 when he gets a M5??? :wink2::wink2::wink2::wink2: LOL

Quote:

Originally posted by dgkid78 is the bridal the same setup as the M2? I thought I read that somewhere.

Same Z-Line mixer system in the M4 as the M2...

nice progression keep at it .

eventually the kite disappears and all you FEEL is the wind and bar and you r ride

Quote:

Originally posted by PHREERIDER nice progression keep at it . eventually the kite disappears and all you FEEL is the wind and bar and you r ride

On a good slalom water ski run, you drop into the water and realize you never thought about your ski. It was there and was integral to the activity but you were not conscious of it during the activity. So I know exactly what you mean. I'm not there yet and didn't anticipate that I could. I need more hours at this.

Welcome to the Force young Padwan

yes depower kite/buggy enjoy flying young Padawan..........................

Let the jedi depower training begin. Tridude, Phreerider, and Angus, I've asked each of you enough questions to write 2 books with. Now my ears are open and the lights are on.

Glad to hear of your good experiences BB. Your 9.5 Montana 4 seemed to me to be a very nice and nimble kite. So does this mean Wexler will have to share it with you more?

yep, I'm thinking of getting him a scout for when he is overpowered with the montana, so I can take over the montana in higher winds and he still has a ride. He is good with it to about 12 mph and then it starts having its way with him. He wouldn't launch it yesterday in the high teens. I'm glad he didn't.

When you guys talk about how much depower a kite has relative to others, are you referring to the difference in power with the bar out and when you pull the bar in? What type kites have the most? I understand that the smaller the depower, the less depower it has. The wheels in my head are turning and I'm trying to make use of my new level of understanding. I have good Montana winds today but the ground is soaking wet. I don't want to trash the kite in the mud. More wind for the next few days so I'll have it back out and this time I'm rolling.

Quote:

Originally posted by dgkid78 M jealous m jealous m jealous:D BB is the bridal the same setup as the M2? I thought I read that somewhere. I know you didn't get much fly time with the M3. But do you know what got improved over the M3?

Differences between M3 and M4 courtesy of CoastalWindSports.com

# 1) Revised bridle construction (speed system with two pulleys) for:

* Noticeable more de-power
* Less backstall
* Much improved unhooked performance

2) Newly re-designed de-power control bar for:

* Double pull-pull straps for power adjustment replaced with single strap and cam-cleat
* Much cleaner and neater bar rig.

3) Wider tips and thinner profile for:

* Increased stability
* More lift and hang-time.
* Faster turns.
* Improved low-wind performance

4) New "Y" Front center line rig for:

* Decreased drag
* Simplified, neater rig.
* Easier set-up

Quote:

Originally posted by BeamerBob When you guys talk about how much depower a kite has relative to others, are you referring to the difference in power with the bar out and when you pull the bar in? What type kites have the most?

Yeah if a kite is said to have 80% depower, then they are inferring that A kite idling with the bar out is developing 20% of its max power, but this has to be pretty subjective. I have not heard on any manufacturer plotting polar data and charting L/D over airspeed ranges and different angles of attack.

Veteran instructors on the beach will tell you that the newer bow kites will have a lot more de-power than the older "C" kites that were practically fully lit all the time.

Seems like in any given depower kite genre, "improved depower" is one of the top bullet points for new year's model.

A Montana will have more de-power than the Apex, due to a more sophisticated bridle and mixer system. The single pulley system on the Apex will simply tilt the entire canopy of the kite to change angle of attack, whereas the twin-pulley compound mixer in the Montana will alter profile shape/ camber as well as AoA, allowing a broader range of power.

Well, that makes sense then. It would go from enough power to keep my harness snug to lifting 230 lbs off the ground with ease. I can truly understand the heights they were getting in the HQ snowkites video on youtube.

What is the low end range for a 9.5 or 7m montana for landboarding for a 145# guy like me do you think? Would the 10m fly in 10mph or does it need more like 12+ to be fun? Same question for the 7m??

Digging the guy skiing on pins in that vid.

The 9.5 tends will fly in 6-7 but the controls are backwards. At about 10-12 it will start to fly better and at about 15, it works like it's supposed to. The 7 meter probably adds 3-4 mph to all those guesses. I imagine someone that has vast experience with both could be more precise.