Howdy folks,

I'm brandy new the forum, but not to power kiting. I bought my first buggy in 1992, did some meets, bought some kites, built others and then fell out of circulation back around 1998 shortly before my daughter was born. Now she's 10, her brother is 7, and I'm trying to get back into the sport. I went to JIBE last weekend and had a great time. Many thanks to Angus for hosting that event.

I still have all my old gear and most of it still works. It includes 2 early PL comp buggies, a 10M Ultralight Peel, Sputnik 3, Sputnik 5, Quad Trac 3, and a Skytiger 7. I fly mostly the dual line gear with a back strap and a set of Peter Lynn safety handles.

I also have a home built hitch to connect the buggies. It gets lots of use as the kids like to ride in the back. They are enamoured of the sport though neither has yet learned to fly a steerable kite. This might be because I have nothing good to learn on and/or no good place to learn. I live in Gainesville, FL where wind is fickle if it blows at all.

Sadly, the kite I use the most--the Sputnik 5--has stretched recently and has gone from a great buggy engine to a quite frustrating kite that withers in the higher wind.. Whereas I want a lot of new gear, the Sputnik 5 needs to be replaced first.

I've flown a PL Phantom (Thanks, Dean!) and it was very nice. Now that I have flown a kite that auto zeniths and depowers I suspect I will never go back. It looks like I'm going to be buying some Arcs. From what I understand the Phantom is great for buggying. Folks say it suffers only on water relaunch and bowtie issues. As I am a buggier with only aspirations of going on the the water, the water relaunch issue is not a huge problem for me. I am used to flying high aspect dual line cross-bridled foils, so I'm used to some ground handling issues. The Phantom seems less trouble than that.

My first question on the arc is one of size translation. My dead Sputnik 5 has a flat area of 4.75 meters. It's bridled pretty flat so the projected area is probably about 4.5 meters. Is there a good metric for comparing the load generated by two kites that are so different? We could split hairs over how much I weigh (165lbs), how I am going to use the kite (buggying on hard beach, no jumps, kids as cargo 1/2 the time), how I fly (I don't mind constant sining), and wind speed (10mph? I'm not really sure), but fundamentally it's the same guy doing the same thing in the same conditions as before. So should I look for an Arc with about the projected area?

The next issue is one of which Arc to buy. Phantoms are supposedly a great buggy engine even amongst Arcs, but they seem rare in the used market. So if I'm too impatient to wait for a Phantom, what's the next best buggy engine? I buggy mostly on hard pack beach so good upwind performance is very important to me for the days when the wind direction is a not quite right.

As to the Phantom I flew, Dean said it was a prototype 10m, though it doesn't seem that size made it to production. The Phantom had enough sail that I could force a slide at speed by sheeting in but sheeting out kept things manageable.

So I think a Phantom 9 might be the best kite to be my next kite, but I'm open to suggestions 'cause I'm impatient. I think Susan just nabbed some camping reservations this a.m. for Memorial Day weekend at the state park in St. Augustine. The tide will be low around 2 p.m. that Sunday so I'm jonesin' to take the buggies and have some fun. I just need an Arc, a bar, lines, and a new harness. Is that much to ask? ;-)

Philip

IVE GOT 2 KITES FOR SALE ATM A 15M PHANNY AND A 12M SCORP. I WANT £250 FOR EACH PLUS P&P I LIVE IN THE UK SO P&P MIGHT BE EXPENSIVE. I RECENTLY SENT A 15M PHANNY TO THE US AND THE POSTAGE WAS ABOUT £55.

I picked up a 10m Venom a while back and as a newer pilot I've enjoyed every minute of it. It has more than enough power for my 270lbs and has taken me faster than I was comfortable with on the buggy.

Gorillas' aren't that uncommon and the couple of times I've flown them have been great(I think they have a slightly lower aspect then the Venoms/Phantoms).

Between those three I don't think you'll have a hard time finding a PL Arc for you and your kids to enjoy.

I have a flexi wide axel and love buggying with my 10M Venom1 and Venom2. People always talk about the Phantom as a buggy kite which it's definatly nice, but really all the ARC kites are nice for casual bugging just because of the ARCs behavior in the sky. When I let people use them for learning to landboard they love them because you can roll straight downwind and the kite won't fall out of the sky. If you picked up any 10M Arc I'm pretty sure you'll be happy with how they perform versus your older gear.

Phillip, the Phantom I had out on Saturday was a 15m. It depowers so completely, I (without trying yet) would feel comfortable with it up to 20 mph or so. You could expand that by going down to a 12 meter and working it more for the power you want. I understand the 9m Phannies are very rare and tough to find used. The guys at NABX were using 6m phantoms in winds over 40 mph making speed runs. I intend to get another ARC by the end of the year and am currently figuring on getting the new Charger due out this summer sometime. Keep us posted on your acquisitions!

Hi Phillip, nice meeting you at JIBE.

Another thing to consider is the wind requirements for a smaller (9m/12m) sail. Somewhere on PKF is a link to a Peter Lynn calculator that gives you suggested wind velocities for the various kites based upon your weight. I'm sure that someone else will pass along the link.

What do know, I got the link in!

http://www.kite-fantastic.co.uk/articles/mx5alan/arc-wind-ra...

But, as you can see, the smaller the kite the more wind you will need. The 9m Phanny and the 9m G2 need right at 20mph for land use at 76kg. How often do you get this much wind and do you want to ride in 20mph?

Just some food for thought in your search for the perfect sail. :dunno:

Mel

Quote:

Originally posted by carltb IVE GOT 2 KITES FOR SALE ATM A 15M PHANNY AND A 12M SCORP. I WANT £250 FOR EACH PLUS P&P I LIVE IN THE UK SO P&P MIGHT BE EXPENSIVE. I RECENTLY SENT A 15M PHANNY TO THE US AND THE POSTAGE WAS ABOUT £55.

One on one jumping lessons included? :wee:

Quote:

Originally posted by mgatc ... http://www.kite-fantastic.co.uk/articles/mx5alan/arc-wind-ra... But, as you can see, the smaller the kite the more wind you will need. The 9m Phanny and the 9m G2 need right at 20mph for land use at 76kg. How often do you get this much wind and do you want to ride in 20mph? Just some food for thought in your search for the perfect sail. :dunno: Mel

Yes, I saw that web site and it does seem to indicate I should aim larger. Do you think the landboarding numbers are representative for a buggier? I figured the rolling resistance was higher for the land boards.

The real problem here is I have never memorized the Beaufort scale so I can't assign numbers to what I see. I just remember what kite I flew the last time the wind felt as it does at the moment. So much for all that engineering training. Data? What data?

Reflecting back on Friday I think the wind I was flying in was Beaufort 4 aka 13-17 MPH. That would bear out your suggestion that a little larger would be a better.

Thanks for the feedback.

Philip

I'm not sure the wind was that high. I put down my 4.9m Reactor and got out a 7m Blurr. I wouldn't have felt underpowered at 13-17 with the reactor. That is its sweet spot. Maybe the wind stepped up later in the day when I was flying the Montana depower and wouldn't have noticed the increase so much.

I have very few days in a year that I won't be able to fly my 15m Phantom due to too much wind. My Charger will probably be the next size up for some extra power in lower winds and to help me get out on the water.

Tis' true that the bugs roll easy. The kite however, still has to have enough wind to perform. They will fly at the minimum wind requirement but not necessarily have enough power to pull something. Case in point is my 11m Neo and the 19m Venom. Both will fly in 8/9mph. With this amount of wind, the Neo will drive the board, the Venom back stalls when the bar is pulled in. But, if you can get things rolling, there is always apparent wind........