so from looking around i have seen 2 methods of holding your kite, handles and bars. i have always been inclined towards handles, they seem to give more control to the flyer. however, the kite i am planning to buy comes with a control bar.

i know boarders and surfers often use bars because it allows them to go 1 handed.

anyway, back the point of my post.

could someone please give me a run down of the advantages and disadvantages or both, and who generally uses which control method for what activity ?

and another quick question on the side: it is possible to use a 4 line control bar without a harness ?

thanks a tonne, tim.

This has been discussed at length in many threads. Try a search.

Yes, its possible to fly a 4 line bar with no harness. No problem there. I think handles give better control, but a 4 line bar certainly does the trick. If you buy a kite with a bar you could always get a set of handles for $20 or so to try them out. For static flying I prefer handles because I think they offer better control.

okay, sorry will do

thanks

No worries man.....just saying that there is plenty of info out there on this. Both work and it mostly comes down to personal preference. If the kite you want comes on a bar then just go for it and then you can try handles later on and decide for yourself. Nothing beats first hand experience and handles are cheap.

yeah, okay thanks

I bought an HQ Scout 3m that comes with the HQ crossover bar. My son likes to use it on more windy days on the landboard and I have a set of handles for it if I need it for the buggy. I prefer handles on a fixed bridle but I'm really starting to appreciate the benefits a depower kite (always on a bar) offers.

The exception to the answers here is if the kite you have coming to you is a dedicated Depowerable kite, then you would need a harness to properly use the depower. It is not recommended to use handles on a depowerable foil or to fly a depowerable foil without a harness.

All fixed bridle foils can be flown on a bar or handles without a harness.

Hope that helps.

Is it true that whith the bar control the kite loose power ???

No, not true at all.

If the setup is done properly, the sail will produce the exact same power on a control bar that it does on handles, the control system makes no difference at all in the amount of power the sail can produce.

Handles usually do give you better control and finer adjustment of the sail which can give you the indication that you have more power.

The reason is that you can "usually" spin the kite faster and change angle of attack quicker with handles which "could" help the kite get up to max speed faster and thus creating max power sooner. The power would be the same on both the bar or handles but because of the increase in control and easier tuning of the lines through the handles, you may be able to fly the kite more efficiently than with a control bar and thus, get more efficient power.

The controls that you use for the kite will not increase or decrease the power the kite is capable of producing --- as long as the setup is configured properly for both.

Hope that helps.

I see where the confusion comes in. Bar/handles is like saying car/truck it is a fairly sweeping statement. Lets try this... handles, pulley handles, crossover bar (pulley bar, I don't think anyone uses that term, but for clarity I am!) standard bar and a de-power system.

Handles offer a great deal of control and a lot of subtly, the draw back is that the human input is located in the forearms (addition of a strop line changes that but then there are a new set of issues so I'll leave that one alone lets talk about a harness-less system)

The pulley handles help to reduce the stress on the forearms when using the breaks. The control is basically the same but there is more movement required.

A cross over bar or a bar that has pulleys on it. (over simplified here...) Offers a very similar amount of control as handles but the strain is taken by the upper arms and shoulders. The commercial pulley bars (ozone, hq, spider if they are still around???) are set ready for a harness and have proven safety systems. The down side is they need careful tuning to work on all kites. A crossover bar set for one kite may not perform well on another.

The standard bar like the cross over bar mores the strain on the body. It really depends on the kite here, some kites do very very well on a bar and others are close to un-usable. Some kites will fly very well on the front lines with the back lines loose they usually do well on a bar. Other kites need varying amounts of break pressure to behave and they will not work well on a bar at all. Most commercially available bar systems (most manufactures have a bar or some sort) have the ability to use a harness with built in safety systems.

A de-power system is not just a bar, but a bridle system it changes the angle of attack of the kite and because of this alters the power it will produce. It is like being a kid and sticking your hand out the window of the car if parallel to the ground it stays as you point your fingers to the sky more pressure. In the simplest terms that is how a de-power system works typically a kite is either set up as a de-power or not. A de-power bar does not turn any kite into a de-power kite it is much more than that.

Long winded but maybe it will help. Everyone has a system they like and why, all equally valid reasons. I personally use all of the above but for the pulley handles but that is mostly because I never bothered to buy or rig up a set. Most beginner four line kites will handle either bar or handles generally speaking that is. Handles are inexpensive so if you are looking at a beginners kite (you should be!) get both, try both make up your own mind.

Good Luck
Alex

okay, thanks guys.

for the books the kite im hoping to perchase is a peter lynn pepper 3.5m

i guess ill try out the bars and if im happy with them then its all good.

someone said you can pick up handles cheaply if i dont get along with the bar.

again, thanks for your help.

nice post, kite demon....

:bigok:

Thanks furbowski!