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Dust Devils

vwbrian - 23-1-2010 at 06:15 PM

I got caught up in a dust devil last year and saw a few others in them and one person got hurt by one. Could we have some sort of warning system. I was thinking boat air horns to give a heads up to look out for them. I found some at a $1 store that I could bring with me? we could pass them out to different people and if you see one blast away on the horn.

ripsessionkites - 24-1-2010 at 02:24 AM

what happens when you're in the middle of the drylake, and there's one chasing behind you. :wee:

good idea
is this more for the people at camp? so if you hear the horn look around, drop your kite?

Bladerunner - 24-1-2010 at 08:45 AM

I can see it now !

The horn goes off and it is like a starting gun. Everybody from the Dutch to the disturbed running to get out and in front of the Devil :ninja:

I agree those dust devils are a scarey part of the game. Most people who didn't feel comfortable flying with them sat out. That included me. I'm too old to learn how to react to those beasts and have nothing to prove. My Li'l buddy Rip' on the other hand tosses his 120lb :moon: in front of them and lives his dream! :crazy:

Don't play with the Devil if you don't want to get burned !!!!!! :rolleyes:

deanaoxo - 25-1-2010 at 07:00 AM

Wait, wait, hold on, where did you get the idea that there is no risk?

I'm sorry, somehow we've failed to let you know that kiting on the dry lake bed is risky.

There is wind, sometimes high, sun, sometimes lots of it, and there is high speed, sometimes more than you want, also there is abrasion, plenty of it, and that's just to start with.

Throw in a dust devil or two, and your situational awareness must actually get up to that of the average light airplane pilot.

Pay attention. Dust devils are telling a story. You will only be hurt if you hang on. If you should get caught in one, it's going to be okay, they only lift you off your feet if you are attached to your kite, and you already know how to let go of that, right!?

Seriously, you are your own warning system. I'll say again: PAY ATTENTION!

If it's your first time, talk to the old timers, there's plenty of them, and that in and of itself should tell you something. We're still here, still going out there, and many of us(myself included) have ridden into them on purpose.

In general, you want to avoid them. They are messy and muss your kite.

We don't need more ideas of others taking on the responsibility that you need to have for yourself. It's for sure okay to point them out. Not saying it's not, but we play on the big field, sound doesn't travel far, there is no bigger visual cue than the dust devil itself, and what you are suggesting gives people more things to listen/watch out for instead of just, wait for it, paying attention.

Meanwhile, air horns are used for one thing, and one thing only at nabx. RACING.

That's right, racing. Gonna be some.

Beginners. Everyone else. Be there! If you are not registered, do so now.

See you by the white tent! bring your SA!

aoxomoxoa

Quote:

Originally posted by vwbrian
I got caught up in a dust devil last year and saw a few others in them and one person got hurt by one. Could we have some sort of warning system. I was thinking boat air horns to give a heads up to look out for them. I found some at a $1 store that I could bring with me? we could pass them out to different people and if you see one blast away on the horn.

Maven454 - 25-1-2010 at 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by deanaoxo
Wait, wait, hold on, where did you get the idea that there is no risk?

I'm sorry, somehow we've failed to let you know that kiting on the dry lake bed is risky.

Our hobby is risky?!? :shocked2: Why didn't anyone ever tell me that! That's it, I'm out. Anyone want to buy a bunch of kites?

heliboy50 - 25-1-2010 at 07:58 AM

Hmmm.. if making people mad is the goal then well bullseye, Dean. Brian was just asking a question and or making a suggestion so you don't need to poke fun. If you feel it is unwarranted then make a comment as to such. The lack of racing at NABX seems to have been a gripe for many so I think an air horn sounding would not go unnoticed. The hotel code still doesn't work and it didn't last year either so after 15 tries I will book without it. I don't even care if I ride or not because I go for the fellowship not to prove something. Ban me from the event for speaking up for a fellow rider if you will but aoxomo-whatever the he** and mellow out. Alvord anyone? Hey Maven--If I like my new venom I might have to hit you up for that scorp.

bison - 25-1-2010 at 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by heliboy50...The lack of racing at NABX seems to have been a gripe for many...

Hear, Hear!!! Main reason I haven't gone in years.

geokite - 25-1-2010 at 10:21 AM

We have had racing the past 2 years. Loads of fun. Sure wish the results of these races could be found easily on the website.

The code works. Just got my reservation this past weekend. Just gotta call, do no use the online reservation system.

Original topic: yes, pay attention. If we used horns, they would sound all day sometimes. People would ignore them eventually. And they would be annoying.

Arcs can be flown through dust devils. Just keep the kite low so you get pulled sideways (not for the faint at heart). I have not had the kite collapse or invert. Amazing kites.

bison - 25-1-2010 at 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by geokite
We have had racing the past 2 years.

Depends on how one defines racing.

geokite - 25-1-2010 at 11:58 AM

We had a course, start/finish line, participants, officials, and multiple heats (and of course wind, kites, buggies). How do you define racing? EDIT: What was missing?

indigo_wolf - 25-1-2010 at 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Maven454
That's it, I'm out. Anyone want to buy a bunch of kites?

It's not nice to tease!!! :P

ATB,
Sam

bison - 25-1-2010 at 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by geokite...What was missing?

Plenty of things, but pointing that out only starts a discussion that devolves into a scream session, every time.

WolfWolfee - 25-1-2010 at 12:59 PM

Do you really think racing is what NABX is about?
Never been and probably never will, never run out of spots to fly here and thats what I do.

ripsessionkites - 25-1-2010 at 01:01 PM

I heard there was racing last year, however it happened on the day the Dutch and i were leaving.

Im hoping that this year, it will be on earlier or at least more than one race during the week. the euros are coming.... wooohooo.

Maven454 - 25-1-2010 at 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by indigo_wolf

Quote:

Originally posted by Maven454
That's it, I'm out. Anyone want to buy a bunch of kites?

It's not nice to tease!!! :P

ATB,
Sam

Moi? I never tease. I am, however, excellent with sarcasm

geokite - 25-1-2010 at 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bison

Quote:

Originally posted by geokite...What was missing?

Plenty of things, but pointing that out only starts a discussion that devolves into a scream session, every time.

Well, don't just tease us with the jab. If you have something to say in this public forum about how racing is to be run, then say it. Or leave it. Fragile egos are best not to jab and run when others are so willing to discuss the topic.

bison - 25-1-2010 at 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by WolfWolfee
Do you really think racing is what NABX is about?

Actually, in the old days the focus of SBBB (pre-NABX) WAS racing! So much so that many complaints were regarding too much racing.

I can only speak for me, but I loved those days. Not only did we do Circuit races over a couple of days, but also the 50 mile enduro, and the best race I never got to participate in was the Team Enduro. Lots of participation from all skill levels.

I would love to see those days come back. Alas, I feel that those days are sadly gone.

deanaoxo - 25-1-2010 at 02:16 PM

Well you got me.

I seriously do not know how what i posted could make anyone mad. I sure didn't mean to. Just some straight talk. That's all.

As for racing, we have never had control over conditions. We've had a run of bad luck with them, and are once again going to bend over back wards to have racing this year.

EVERY DAY.

As for the hotel code not working, if it doesn't work one time, all you have to do is contact me, as others have done, and i personally will make sure it works for you.

Did you call?

I seriously can not solve your problem unless you bring it to my attention. My email address is deanjordan (at) gmail dot com Many people write me, and now until the event i will be available to answer questions, put out fires, fix problems, soothe egos, and mend fences.

Now, what's this about ban you from the event?!? What did you do? Leave a burned out motor home parked out in the middle of the playa? Camp up in the brush?? Burn pallets? I mean really, i may not be what you call the ideal spokesperson who soothes every soul, but could you at least give me a chance? I do really care about the event, all who attend, and the playa.

Meanwhile, my message wasn't directed at Brian personally, and Brian, if i offended you, i'm sorry. His post brought up Situational Awareness and the Playa. I guess i could put bullet points there, and be more specific, but in general i think most people that read this are pretty smart. Again, i did not mean to offend, and if i did, i'm truly sorry.

Oh, and Heliboy50, it's your event too, so thanks for speaking up, i look forward to seeing you there, do let me know if you need help with the code, registration, or anything else.

and yes, i am seeking aoxomoxoa~!

Quote:

Originally posted by heliboy50
Hmmm.. if making people mad is the goal then well bullseye, Dean. Brian was just asking a question and or making a suggestion so you don't need to poke fun. If you feel it is unwarranted then make a comment as to such. The lack of racing at NABX seems to have been a gripe for many so I think an air horn sounding would not go unnoticed. The hotel code still doesn't work and it didn't last year either so after 15 tries I will book without it. I don't even care if I ride or not because I go for the fellowship not to prove something. Ban me from the event for speaking up for a fellow rider if you will but aoxomo-whatever the he** and mellow out. Alvord anyone? Hey Maven--If I like my new venom I might have to hit you up for that scorp.

BeamerBob - 25-1-2010 at 02:34 PM

Do I pick up my pink skirt at the event or do we get them in advance? I might be interested in a dust devil if it means the difference between riding or not, but not if it means accelerating if I'm already over 40 mph. I wouldn't mind being in a race where I would attempt to stay on the tail end of guys that know what they are doing so I could try to do as they do and keep up. I can't wait to be there with you guys. I"m registered but haven't finalized my plans yet enough to make the hotel reservations.

bison - 25-1-2010 at 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by geokite...when others are so willing to discuss the topic.

But it is never a DISCUSSION! When I answered your questions with experience, logic and rules, you felt it necessary to insult ME personally. That's what happened to the last thread. An example from this thread already: "Fragile egos are best not to..."

You don't WANT a discussion, you appear to WANT a fight. You've tried, and succeeded with several other buggiers. Yet, I refuse to get sucked into an argument of OPINION!!! I have presented logical, experienced, rules based answers to your concerns. Only, you DON'T want to accept those answers. You continue on with unrealistic scenarios and speculation.

It is impossible to DISCUSS racing with you. You have YOUR OPINION and the experience of others are of no use to you. That is NOT a discussion, it's hubris to think it is.

doublespeed360 - 25-1-2010 at 05:13 PM

2 years ago i was in the top 10 .yea 9 competitors i came in 9th ,lots of fun just hard trying to pick the right kite.ithink slawek won and steve bateman 2nd.

heliboy50 - 25-1-2010 at 05:17 PM

Hey Dean- I'm off the soap box now and sorry the crappy post. I just felt like Brian was being criticized for having concerns for peoples safety. I really shouldn't post when I am all ready grumpy

You guys put in a lot of work to host this event and it shows. I will do as others told me and use the code over the phone. Again, sorry for the crappy tone of the post. See you all there!

ripsessionkites - 26-1-2010 at 06:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by deanaoxo
Well you got me.

I seriously do not know how what i posted could make anyone mad. I sure didn't mean to. Just some straight talk. That's all.

As for racing, we have never had control over conditions. We've had a run of bad luck with them, and are once again going to bend over back wards to have racing this year.

EVERY DAY.

As for the hotel code not working, if it doesn't work one time, all you have to do is contact me, as others have done, and i personally will make sure it works for you.

Did you call?

I seriously can not solve your problem unless you bring it to my attention. My email address is deanjordan (at) gmail dot com Many people write me, and now until the event i will be available to answer questions, put out fires, fix problems, soothe egos, and mend fences.

Now, what's this about ban you from the event?!? What did you do? Leave a burned out motor home parked out in the middle of the playa? Camp up in the brush?? Burn pallets? I mean really, i may not be what you call the ideal spokesperson who soothes every soul, but could you at least give me a chance? I do really care about the event, all who attend, and the playa.

and yes, i am seeking aoxomoxoa~!

honestly, dean is working like a madman right now to get everything sorted out. with the amount of international riders coming he has his work cut out for him this year.

as for the DD, most people are good about yelling to ya to drop your kite down. Ride at your own risk, and know your limits. I suggest for the new riders to size down one on for the first day until you feel comfortable. the surface has you rolling fast so you're kite size (based at home) will be different than the drylake surface.

no one wants to get hurt, but you're around a lot of good people that will look out for you:
situation 1: dear friend Ken E. (sorry to use you as a reference).
he was out riding there was no way he could hear us. short story he got ejected ... everyone just knew to run to him to help, while others knew to get run after his kite.

situation 2: robert smit (chips)
he was blazin at 100km too close to camp :crazy:

and crashed into the bushes in full reverse. LOL. anyways, people ran to help and oddly Dean jumped in the van and drove over. Dean how the heck did you know there was an accident when you're in the tent 24/7??? (must be the Jedi Injury Skills)

ask questions, thats what this forum section was for.

i do miss the enduro days too. however i think if the winds are up, racing will be on. if the winds are high than it should be experienced rider race than.

@BBob, i believe your pink skirt comes in advance, but you leave home in pants.

I see where some people are having issues, after phoning the hotel about the group code:

1. their website sucks, and works for some people in the USA

2. if you book over or less than the NABX event days

honestly its better to call the hotel and it doesnt take that long. they email you the Confirmation Details anyways.

acampbell - 26-1-2010 at 06:12 AM

I have found calling the hotel an easy enough and pleasant affair with little or no waiting. Hotel code was always recognized as it should have been.

geokite - 26-1-2010 at 06:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bison

Quote:

Originally posted by geokite...when others are so willing to discuss the topic.

For all those reading, we are referring to the thread at http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=9666

If one is to read that thread, Richard feels (I believe honestly) that I have insulted him there. Readers can read the thread as they wish and make their own conclusion. I encourage everyone to read that thread.

In that thread there are logical problems laid out with the right of way rules in fisly. I have apologized for making a mistake in the timing/interpretation in waiting for a reply to the thread.

If the fisly rules are based on opinion (as it appears Richard is conceding above) and can be manipulated, they shouldn't be used. The point by point critique of the fisly rules are based on the rules and realistic scenarios, not opinion. Again, I encourage everyone to read the thread and decide for themselves.

Bladerunner - 26-1-2010 at 06:50 AM

I hope Brian didn't take any offense at my reaction to horns !

Fact is people like me put the kite down and get out of the way. People like Rip want to get out in front of them and shoot for speed records.

Some people go to race.

Some go to learn.

Some go, just for the fun !

DEAN puts TON'S of time and energy into this important event. I don't see him actively trying to put anybody down.

I DO find that racing and pissing matches seem to go hand in hand. The #1 reason I avoid this part of the sport.

Cut Dean a break ! If you want to " return " NABX to some former glory then help him out or stay out of his way. You have all year to discuss this but seem to annualy throw a wrench at the system ???

deanaoxo - 26-1-2010 at 07:45 AM

Seriously, it's no problem.

I would just ask this. If you really think i'm out of line, call, or write me.

Some of my friends at Burning Man have a tube. This is a true story. Often after i speak to someone, and often in a leadership role, they are seriously perplexed. That's when the tube comes out, and someone that knows me long time comes over, puts the tube to the persons ear, and says something like " what dean is trying to say...."

So, i know i don't always come across clearly. I work on this all the time. I'm not wedded to my opinion. I can be swayed by facts.

I'm super happy that any sort of discussion about the event is taking place.

Participation IS what this event is all about.

Thank you.

Alpha Omega X-Ray Omega out.

Quote:

Originally posted by heliboy50
Hey Dean- I'm off the soap box now and sorry the crappy post. I just felt like Brian was being criticized for having concerns for peoples safety. I really shouldn't post when I am all ready grumpy

You guys put in a lot of work to host this event and it shows. I will do as others told me and use the code over the phone. Again, sorry for the crappy tone of the post. See you all there!

awindofchange - 26-1-2010 at 02:42 PM

Back to the original poster and the topic.....

Bring all your gear, prepare to be "buggy" schooled in every way imaginable - prepare to have the most fun you have ever had learning how to buggy and meeting new people that you never would have imagined existed.

I always have plenty of gear - not to mention will have our Ivanpah buggies there for people to try out. I am sure if you are lacking something in the power department, there will be plenty of people there that can help you out.

NABX is not totally about the sport or about showing off to the masses, but more about coming together as a group of like minded people to enjoy this awesome sport that we all love.

While the very FEW people will sit and #@%$#! about what rules they want to use, myself and the majority of everyone there will be out on the playa enjoying the best buggying in North America with the best company.

Now to throw the cards on the table.........................................................

Honestly Steve and Bison....this argument has gone on for YEARS!!!!
My opinion (which will surely get me in serious trouble with both of you) is that you need to park the debate and just ride.

The FISLY rules were adopted by NAPKRA because at this time, they are the best rules for what the NAPKRA is trying to accomplish. The rules are NOT written in stone - and NAPKRA is governed by its members. If there is a better way to do it then make the suggestion and if the majority agrees, NAPKRA will RE-WRITE THE RULES to reflect the MAJORITY of its members. Having this continuous pissing match between the two of you will only make a large puddle and nothing will be settled.

You both love racing....you both want to have races....you both are very accomplished racers who are obviously very competitive. Lets figure out a solution that both of you will be happy with and go racing!

I say lets all just go with the rules the way they are now and if we come into situations that don't work, we'll solve those problems at that time. At least we can go racing! Even NASCAR is CONSTANTLY making rule changes to their organization and they have been holding sanctioned races and seasons for over 50 years! Nothing we do right now will be perfect and we will always need to make changes to the system (rules) as new technologies and situations come up. Lets just roll with it now and as the racing goes on, we can tweak, adjust and change it as needed to make it better.

You've heard the saying "Don't throw out the baby with the bath water". Well, lets not damn the whole NAPKRA idea just because there is one hypothetical problem. Instead, lets roll with it, use it, and work with everyone involved to make it better. The two of you working together could bring racing back to not only NABX but everywhere and in awesome form. But if you keep bashing your heads together it will never happen.

Dean has always said that he welcomes racing at NABX, he just needs people like yourselves to step up to the plate and organize / run the racing as he cant do it all himself. I would like to challenge the two of you to get together and organize some racing - I think it is what both of you want anyways. Personally, I could care less on what rules we use as long as I get to race. Maybe we can come together and have a FISLNABX race. Again, don't care, lets race!!!!

----------------------------------- now to wait for the real flaming to begin. Where's my Nomex fire suit?

Regardless on the racing issues... I will be at NABX having another awesome time with all my buggy bretheren.

Maven454 - 26-1-2010 at 02:58 PM

Here here. And I wish I could join you at NABX. But it's probably just as well I can't, I'd test one of those Ivanpah buggies and then be forced to buy one :D.

deanaoxo - 26-1-2010 at 03:06 PM

Thanks Kent, and well said.

We do have the team put together for racing this year. Blake Pelton will head it, so Steve and Bison are free to ride. We can see who is faster on the playa in that way!

If you'd like to brush up on our rules, please make sure you read the part before the rules begin.

We actually have used these rules for 20 years! No kidding! They do work, and they work especially well for us.

Racing Rules for NABX 2010

seeking aoxo~!

vwbrian - 26-1-2010 at 11:31 PM

I have been off line for a few days. Didn't mean to start a war. Last year was my first time at NABX and I had only been buggy riding for about 3 months and the dust devill I hit scared the crap out of me. So I was just thinking of a safety thing, I did not know the horns are already used for another purpose Racing. Being new to the event I am seeing with first timers eyes and looking to try to put in Ideas to help everyone out. I don't know all the ins and outs of the event, But I had a blast last year and will be back this year. I will definately be more aware this year and keep an eye out for hazards.
Keep up the good work on the event.

One other thing I don't think I have ever seen a Dust devil at Sunset beach, Ivanpa presented quite a few hazards the I had not delt with before.

deanaoxo - 27-1-2010 at 07:10 AM

It's not a war, just a spirited discussion, and one that is needed, so thank you.

As stated before, i didn't mean to single you out, so sorry about that.

Meanwhile, for all New folks, ask. That's why we are here(well sort of, that and the free beer!).

The combined amount of experience here is remarkable. Before i had the pleasure of helping with the event, it was not unusual for me to get 50 hours in during the week.

I also lived near El Mirage off and on for about 8 years, and buggied every chance i got.

There are many others on here with similar stories. We know the desert, we love the desert, we dream the desert.

That said, she is a harsh mistress.

Eyes open, mind clear!

Aoxomoxoa near.

Quote:

Originally posted by vwbrian
I have been off line for a few days. Didn't mean to start a war. Last year was my first time at NABX and I had only been buggy riding for about 3 months and the dust devill I hit scared the crap out of me. So I was just thinking of a safety thing, I did not know the horns are already used for another purpose Racing. Being new to the event I am seeing with first timers eyes and looking to try to put in Ideas to help everyone out. I don't know all the ins and outs of the event, But I had a blast last year and will be back this year. I will definately be more aware this year and keep an eye out for hazards.
Keep up the good work on the event.

One other thing I don't think I have ever seen a Dust devil at Sunset beach, Ivanpa presented quite a few hazards the I had not delt with before.

bison - 27-1-2010 at 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by awindofchange

Dean has always said that he welcomes racing at NABX, he just needs people like yourselves to step up to the plate and organize / run the racing as he cant do it all himself.

Ummmm..... Kent, we tried to do EXACTLY that. IN FACT we were told YES, repeat YES!!! approx 6 months before NABX 2009. Then in the middle of January we were told NO, Repeat NO!!! After agreeing to conditions established and negotiated by YOU, Jon and I were more than ready to run some FISLY races and to run the NABX races per the NABX rules. This WAS to be the trade off. We got to run our type of races in exchange for running the NABX races. Effectively bridging the gap and making inroads to patching up relations.

In the end, we were told NO with no explanation and little to no time to obtain our own permit and insurance. Why was that? To this day I really don't know why the answer changed to NO! We held up our end of the bargain only to be told to piss off at the last minute!!! This still angers me when I let it.

awindofchange - 27-1-2010 at 11:51 AM

Bison - before this gets blown out of proportion, I insist on putting a stop to this now.

The answer was NEVER no. Dean and the NABX crew fully agreed to let us race under HIS permit and during HIS event, all we had to do was to use our own insurance. Up until that time I was told that NAPKRA had insurance so I didn't think this was ever an issue. After I spent nearly two months of negotiations with Dean I was finally informed that NAPKRA did NOT have insurance - nor did they have their non-profit status set up. I myself - AND ONLY MYSELF - ceased with the negotiations with Dean and the NABX crew and turned this back to Jon as I could go no further with it. All that needed to be done was for NAPKRA to obtain the necessary insurance that I was told they already had and we would have been racing at NABX no problem.

I take FULL BLAME AND RESPONSIBILITY for stopping the negotiations but please do NOT attack Dean and the NABX crew on this issue because they were fully supportive and agreeable to let us have our sanctioned races at NABX. Dean NEVER said no and in fact was very open and welcome to the idea and looked forward to helping us make it happen.

NABX's insurance did not cover the NAPKRA organization to hold races. But it did cover general racing for the NABX attendees in which we COULD HAVE STILL HELD NO PROBLEM. But the issue was that NAPKRA also wanted to hold its own private sanctioned races which were only open to the members of NAPKRA - these races would be in addition to the open races which NAPKRA would organize for any and all the NABX attendees that wanted to participate. Because NAPKRA is its own privatized organization, NAPKRA and its members could never be covered under NABX's event insurance - especially if the attendees of NABX aren't even allowed to participate. This situation is blatantly obvious and as you have been the one working with the insurance companies on NAPKRA's behalf, I would only assume that you would be fully aware of this. Just as NAPKRA's insurance that they now have could never cover NABX's event and attendees without an additional special policy to include them (which would increase the insurance costs dramatically), NABX"s event insurance could never cover NAPKRA without the same.

You can not expect the NABX crew to substantially increase the cost of their insurance to include our sanctioned body. We should have had our own insurance well in place before ever opening up the discussions with NABX. Even today, I am positive that Dean is more than happy to work with NAPKRA and allow us to hold our sanctioned races there - we just need to provide our own insurance and work out the scheduling details with the NABX crew so as to not interrupt or interfere with the general operations of NABX and its attendees. I have always said that the lake bed is plenty big enough to hold our races in a secluded area and also allow NABX attendees unrestricted access to the rest of the playa - Dean has always agreed in every discussion I have had with him regarding this.

But to make sure this is perfectly clear, in the middle of January 2009, I dropped the discussions back to Jon to finalize the insurance issues NOT DEAN OR NABX - as far as NABX knew it was a done deal. All we had to do was get insurance and we can race - no permits or anything else was necessary. Everything was a go and Dean was more than happy to allow us to hold our races. Dean even made several attempts after the fact to see if we were still planning on holding them and was very excited to make it happen.

So - in the middle of January, the answer turned into NO because of NAPKRA, not the NABX crew. That finger needs to be turned in the other direction to point to yourself and Jon, not NABX.

Sorry to be so blunt on this subject but I want to make sure blame for this is placed where it should be.

jellis - 27-1-2010 at 10:31 PM

There is so much incorrect information that I will contact Bison and Kent to help them understand why and what happened. I will not participate in these inaccurate statements on this forum.
Best Regards
Jon Ellis

heliboy50 - 27-1-2010 at 11:56 PM

Holy crap- sorry again DID NOT mean to fan that flame, Dean. I owe you some of that free beer at NABX.:barf:

geokite - 28-1-2010 at 07:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jellis
There is so much incorrect information that I will contact Bison and Kent to help them understand why and what happened. I will not participate in these inaccurate statements on this forum.
Best Regards
Jon Ellis

Then make them accurate and tell the readers your version of the facts. Let use decide with the facts. Otherwise you are just slinging poo and running. You wouldn't do that, would you Jon?

Will you stand by what you write, I guess that is the real question.

Edit: Sorry, I am referring to the fact that Jon, Eli, and Big John all removed their posts from a 5 page discussion of racing (since deleted by the admin of this site) titled "Challenge 2008"

csa_deadon - 28-1-2010 at 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by vwbrian

One other thing I don't think I have ever seen a Dust devil at Sunset beach

Maybe not on the beach Brian, but there was one that rolled through buggy camp if you remember. :shocked2:

bison - 28-1-2010 at 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by geokite
...a 5 page discussion of racing (since deleted by the admin of this site) titled "Challenge 2008"

You know Steve you're just trying to restart old fights that never go anywhere. You never contribute TO the discussion, just put down people for not meeting YOUR standards.

Maven454 - 28-1-2010 at 11:19 AM

*chirp.chirp.chirp*... So, who wants some popcorn?

WIllardTheGrey - 28-1-2010 at 01:39 PM

awindofchange - 28-1-2010 at 04:11 PM

Just to clarify my above statements and after talking with Dean and Jon:

Sanctioned racing during NABX 2009 WAS planned but was not able to happen because of insurance technicalities with NAPKRA at the time - again this had nothing to do with NABX - and - NABX had been nothing but 100% acceptable and cooperative in every way to make racing a reality. As everyone should now know, NAPKRA has since finalized their insurance deal and Jon has spent many countless hours making sure this was completed for the NAPKRA organization. Unfortunately it was not able to be completed by the time of the '09 NABX event.

When I posted that I turned the situation back to Jon, it was only because I did not have the ability to go further in the discussions as I had no control over the insurance issues. Jon and the rest of the people involved put forth their best effort to work out the details with NAPKRA's insurance, but it was just not possible to get them all done in the necessary time frame. When it became obvious that this was not going to be possible, there was no reason for me to carry on the discussions / planning / scheduling with the NABX organization. NABX did not say no to racing or to the NAPKRA, it was just not possible to put all the pieces together in the necessary time frame.

Talking with both Jon and Dean in the last few days, I have been assured that it is still possible that NAPKRA could hold their sanctioned racing events during the NABX event in the near future ... perhaps as early as NABX '11. So everyone who is anxiously waiting for sanctioned racing - it is still possible. Dean has also informed me that NABX will be hosting their own racing events during NABX '10 for anyone who wishes to join in - so if you only wanna race, there's no reason not to come!

I fully respect everyone involved with NAPKRA and NABX and appreciate the countless hours and hard work all of these people constantly stress over to make these events and organizations possible for us.

Now lets go ride and enjoy this wonderful sport - and leave all this political red tape BS behind in the dust.

Can't wait to see y'all at NABX '10

bison - 28-1-2010 at 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by awindofchange
Just to clarify...

Much appreciated Kent, Thank You!