Power Kite Forum - REALLY quick release system

REALLY quick release system

bigkid - 25-6-2010 at 01:58 PM

After a long 2 weeks and to many discussions about what I was doing,(kite buggy) with trauma doctors, thoracic specialists, and my loving wife who took me to the hospital, I have agreed to design and implement some kind of safety system for kite bugging with a harness.
I have talked to others in the sport and all agree what happened to me was to fast to react to safely.
What I would like is if you have a release system that you use, can you share it? I can't buggy again till I have come up with something that will work with the kite, with me, and with the bug. I could but the wife would have to drive me to the hospital again and I don't think she would drive with any care and concern the 2nd time.

pokitetrash - 25-6-2010 at 02:09 PM

So where you using a strop on a Fixed Bridle hooked in?

WELDNGOD - 25-6-2010 at 02:14 PM

Ask BBrex AKA Brad, about his captive QR system. It is what I based mine on. Do a search for QRs and you should find one of his posts.

indigo_wolf - 25-6-2010 at 02:19 PM

Buggy Incoming! (all the way at the bottom)

Wichard Shackle Release Ball

Popeye says

Pulley for a strop The bbrex thread.

Hope that helps.

ATB,
Sam

bigkid - 25-6-2010 at 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by pokitetrash
So where you using a strop on a Fixed Bridle hooked in?

yes, with a PL roller spreader bar.

I have talked to Brad about his system.

vwbrian - 25-6-2010 at 03:03 PM

How about a strop that breaks if too much stress is put on it?
I broke my strop several times at Pacific beach that weekend it was blowing 20-25mph. 4mm climbing rope.

bigkid - 25-6-2010 at 05:48 PM

vw, that is more along the idea I am following. I am working on a system that will react faster than me. In a split second it is to late.
My thought is as soon as I raise up off the seat a couple of inches it deploys the release. I have some good ideas but I am unable to use my left side yet and I am not able to work with tools either. Besides my wife has been watching to see if anything is moved during the day and I get chewed if I don't just sit and heal, lots of drawings and computer work though.

lad - 25-6-2010 at 06:01 PM

I can't see how some instant release leash wouldn't get in the way of your normal motions in a buggy. I'd still look into a depowerable - esp. an arc - where releasing the bar would cut enough power to buy time to hit the bar safety.

heliboy50 - 25-6-2010 at 06:09 PM

How about q-power from a wichard QR to a frame rail? Kind of the set up I've seen for hot wire except no hot wire.

flexiblade - 25-6-2010 at 06:16 PM

(this is rather redundant to the info above - but it looks like we're coming to a consensus)

I had started down this road way back when I used to fly fixed bridles and got smashed up a few times - the conclusion that I came to is that you need an autonomous safety system - one that disengages the power of the kite without the pilot having to do anything. As you have most likely realized is that a smaller kite in faster winds will always win (or at least eventually) in the game of reflexes. I saw a dutch buggier at one point had set up a hotwire system consisting of a strop going through a pully system with a wichard attached to a line connected to the buggy so that in the event of the pilot being lifted from the seat of the buggy the wichard automatically disengaged the pilot from the pully system - can't recall how the kite stayed attached to the pilot. The problem with this setup is that by the time the wichard is activated you may still be catapulted a good distance from the buggy and possibly at speed. I am sure that there will be some good examples of safety equipment to be discussed here - but if you still don't feel 100% about your safety you are welcome to come on over to the D'arc side -

here is the safety release that I use -

and the arcs will give you a much better heads up to when there is going to be a problem than any small fixed bridle will. The nice thing for me now when I go out - I know I can launch my 8m venom in 30 - 35mph winds and go with it - 40mph is just too fast for me - I can just wait for another day. The gear you choose to ride with either extends your comfort zone or limits it.

shehatesmyhobbies - 25-6-2010 at 06:50 PM

Man must have been one heck of an OBE! Hope you mend soon!

As for the real fast release, I kind of like the strop break away idea! sounds about as fast as it gets!

bigkid - 25-6-2010 at 07:28 PM

I just lost what took me 10 minutes to type, so I will try again.
heli and flexi, you have the right idea. A strap from the bug (where the siderails connect to the down tube) to my harness connected to the wichard that will let go of the pulley if I lift up a couple of inches. and bungee type of kite killers tied back to the frame. Might sound like a mess but on paper it works. I need to physically implement it but at this time can't do it.
I also like the idea of a strop that breaks away at a specific point of pressure, but to much thinking at this time of medication.

kteguru - 25-6-2010 at 09:07 PM

Hope your doing better since the accident Bigkid. It would be great if you can come up with an effective safety system but I would add that the best safety system starts with the old melon. Not only knowing when not to fly but always making sure the kite and buggy are always where you need them to be. We all only get hurt when we're doing something we shouldn't be doing (or letting the kite do something it shouldn't be). Leaving the kite at the top of the window in 30+mph winds, letting the kite get behind us without correcting the buggy, flying too close to obstacles in erratic wind etc. etc.. Recently I landed on my head,,,,,and yup,,,,,,,it was because I was doing what I shouldn't have been. Ended up kitelooping the 6.5, kiss knee's, fold up like origami with buggy on top. Ouch!! :no:

It would be great if you come up with a release system that works. Maybe you could market it to the rest of us :yes:

. I just thought I'd remind us all that safety starts with sound judgement. No release system can ever replace that. Not that I have any after that last crash :puzzled: :spin:

Good winds:wee:

BeamerBob - 25-6-2010 at 09:54 PM

I have pondered this same idea of something like a kite killer wristband release that you could yank to disengage the release. I'm thinking Flexi is right. I have an 8m Venom for those days now myself. I'm double quivered to handle most winds with either fb or depower kites, and the 2-4m fb kites scare me the most.

Krohn1999 - 25-6-2010 at 11:04 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c56mr7xlj8g

http://www.vimeo.com/11045108

Heres a couple of systems that have been made in the past. Both have positive and negitive sides.

in the first video, the system looks good but its the question of "if you can react quick enough that you stay in the buggy?" I doubt it. But you can release yourself from the kite very easy after you hit the ground.
The second system looks a little more promising as far as staying in the buggy BUT!!!!! the system is not good if the kite is above you or behind you. Why you ask? simple If the kite is above you thier is a good chance you are going to eat you wichard when it releases, and if the kite is behind you there is a chance that the strop could get wrapped around your neck and pull you out anyway. So if you want to use a system like this you are taking a chance of getting your jaw broken or even worse getting pulled out by your neck.
I personally have practiced getting pulled out and have learned over time how to keep cool in the situation, since then I havn't been pulled out anymore.
BTW If you get lifted out KEEP COOL you will land again trust me. I have seen so many people get lifted out and then pulled the release while they were still in the air.
Being attached to a kite when your feet are 6 foot above the sand is better than releasing yourself from the only thing that can slow your fall. Keep cool get the kite above you and you will come down slower than without.
Next time you are at the beach practice getting lifted from the siting position, make it routine. Learn buggy control, it is your best weapon against getting lifted.
And please never attach yourself or your kite to a buggy. We have lost enough people already because of this.
Chris

bigkid - 26-6-2010 at 12:41 AM

Chris, the 1st vid is OK but not the answer I am looking for. The 2nd vid is close to my thoughts, and the cons on that one is a valid concern. I understand the importance of doing everything right and I am a firm believer in not taking chances, but I don't live in a perfect world.
I was diagnosed with Flail Chest, 9 ribs broke, 14 total breaks. Crap happens and if I can find something that will go 1 step beyond fate, the odds are in my favor.
I desire to continue to be able to buggy and many more things in life and I also need to keep the wife from spending my life insurance.
I will come up with something that will work and work well.
I do appreciate the concern for my well being and quick healing, but I do have a responsibility to everyone around me and if I can design a QR system that works, I will.
I have no desire at all to hook myself to anything more than the parts already hooked to me, so the QR system is that more important to me. I do appreciate your concern and all of those that have voiced concern. I wouldn't be here if I didn't care what people thought.

Krohn1999 - 26-6-2010 at 06:35 AM

Hey I just got an Idea. If you took the Idea from the first vid (the one with the stroop that opens) and instead of putting the KK around your arm You put it on the buggy.
That way when it released the stroop would no longer be between the handles and the Wichard would still be hanging on your harness.
You would just have to get the length figured out that it wouldn't release untill you were really on your way out of the buggy.
You could also use a tether line that was very light so that instead of lifting the buggy (in case somthing went wrong) it would break.

Just an idea from me.

You are correct that Crap happens and with our sport comes a handful of danger. We should always really think about what we do for "safety" and really think if it is helping or possibly making our "dangerous" sport even more "dangerous"

I hope you get to get back in a Buggy soon.
Chris

Bladerunner - 26-6-2010 at 07:19 AM

Wow ,

So sorry to hear about your bash up .
Best wishes on your quest for a safe release system.

Interesting concept that pound rated intentional break on the strop ? I like the simplicity. Different lb rating depending on style and rider weight.

Keep those Med's up !

:Ange09:

bbrex - 26-6-2010 at 09:10 AM

If your truly looking for saftey vs. cost of it, instead of a strop that breaks, why not just use a set of lines on your power lines that are say 125 or 150 lbs vs the 225 or 250 that many pilots use. When you hit a gust that will lift you, your power lines will pop and kite is dead. I use this as the last step in my hot wire system and have snaped several sets of power lines, in these instances I was not close to activating my system, but better safe than sorry.

Brad

Krohn1999 - 26-6-2010 at 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bbrex
If your truly looking for saftey vs. cost of it, instead of a strop that breaks, why not just use a set of lines on your power lines that are say 125 or 150 lbs vs the 225 or 250 that many pilots use. When you hit a gust that will lift you, your power lines will pop and kite is dead. I use this as the last step in my hot wire system and have snaped several sets of power lines, in these instances I was not close to activating my system, but better safe than sorry.

Brad

wow sounds like you have had lots of luck then.
The last time I broke a front line it torn the rear bridle right out of the kite.

bbrex - 26-6-2010 at 10:15 AM

I have never damaged a foil only had to replace the line sets. Yes the bridles get all tangled sometimes but nothing a no wind day can't fix.
I've used my hot wire system for 5 or 6 years now and will not buggy without it. It is much safer than using a standard harness system in my opinion.
Brad

bigkid - 26-6-2010 at 11:21 AM

Chris, good stuff about the KK connected to the bug.
Brad, I broke a 220 power line on a 4.5 at NABX this year, the strop got hung up at the handle at the harness on the way out of my hand, not sure I want to go in that direction.
I do like the idea of a breakaway strop, I need to research the possibilities some more.
As for the QR system I need to get my left side working so I can use both hands to work out the idea. It's a major ordeal to get in and out of a chair with out screaming let alone a buggy :lol:

I would like to see your set up Brad, sit in the bug and think about it with some different scenarios.
I am a hands on person, need to build a mock up to work out the details. Anyone up to being a test crash dummy? I can still dial 911 with my good hand, :lol:

stetson05 - 26-6-2010 at 12:02 PM

I keep thinking about a 5th line attached to a leash on the buggy. I guess the problem is though, how many kites would have to attach that to. I guess part of the answer might be found in what actually injured you. Was it when you landed because of what the kite did, or is it because of the speed you were going in the buggy that caused the most injury? If a 5th line is not possible maybe a system like the PL lines with a brake line through a ring, attached to a leash. I think what you really want to prevent is an OBE. I like the idea that bbrex uses where the lines break with too much weight. Maybe you can make a weak link that will break so it doesn't always ruin your lines.

acartier1981 - 26-6-2010 at 12:39 PM

I don't really know much about buggies yet, but want about a spring loaded clip holding the strop that lets go under too much load? It would be easier too refine and could be adjustable, plus you wouldn't have to replace anything when it gets used.

WIllardTheGrey - 26-6-2010 at 03:18 PM

I found this while googleing. The whole thread is interesting, but the spreader bar looks like exactly what you are looking for.

Quote:

Originally posted by Nak HERE

Hi all!

I've been keeping a low profile with the KiteRelease because I've had one setback after another with manufacturing. I'm waiting on final samples now, should be here within a week or two. If those are good, and they should be, production will then commence. I'm hoping for availability in June... I've said that before though! I'm working with a new company in Thailand that has been very promising, so hopefully this is really it this time.

On the good side, I've got two years of testing under my belt, and I'm really happy with the KiteRelease. My wife, Joanne, probably would have quit by now without it... Her instructor in Isla Blanca was really wowed by it & thought all students should be using one.

I have done quite a bit of testing with different loads encountered. Lofting is pretty easy, To go up the force exerted by the kite must exceed your body-weight, including all gear. Dragging is more complicated. In level sand, a kiter on his/her feet tends to start dragging at line tension of about 80% body-weight. By using proper technique, you can keep the speed very low until line tension bumps up to about 110%. This is assuming a low kite position. Different surfaces can change this rather dramatically, with slimy mud or ice being worst case scenarios. Waterstarts can be accomplished, carefully and gently, with as little as 60% line tension, but aggressive waterstarts can exceed 120%. I've not tested line tension during kiteloops and such, but simple physics can be used to analyze these forces. Depending on the rider, my opinion is that 300% is close to the limit of what you will experience. I say that because 3 "Gs" is about the limit of what an untrained individual can experience without blacking out, and then only for short times. Very aggressive riders may possibly experience very short term loads even higher than this. (Think Ruben Lenten.)

In my opinion, any "fuse" needs to release at 80% body-weight for a beginner, and between 80% and 100% for an advanced rider, depending on the de-power capability of the kite. Certain circumstances may require even higher release settings for advanced riders. Of course, these numbers only apply while launching/landing. While riding a beginner will require a release of at least 120%, whereas an intermediate/advanced rider will probably require the "fuse" to be locked. Using release tensions less than these numbers will result in inadvertent/unnecessary releases, with the end result being that the rider will disable the fuse to avoid nuisance releases.

The KiteRelease accomodates all of this by being individually calibrated to each rider. The rider asses the current circumstances and engages one of four easily selectable modes:

Manual Release: Self Explanatory

Automatic Release-Launch: Calibrated to 80% - 100% of YOUR body-weight. Used during Launch and landing to help prevent injury- --or worse-- in the event of a serious incident. (Extreme gust, bridle wrapped on a wingtip, etc.)

Automatic Release-Ride: Adds about 50% tension to the release. Used by beginners/intermediates while riding, or by advances riders in conditions that warrant the added safety of automatic release.

Lock: Self explanatory. Tested not to release at loads of 1000 pounds. Used for advanced riding/jumping.

In the real world, the primary safety device is the rider's brain. The KiteRelease, when properly used, can help prevent accidents. However, it's up to the rider to recognize and react to risky situations.

Nak

vwbrian - 26-6-2010 at 04:02 PM

Sports Safety Designs LLC
2512 NW 37th Ave
Camas, WA 98607
360-910-6085
Inventor of kiterelease
That is about all the info I could find to contact them. I haven't called.

bigkid - 26-6-2010 at 04:26 PM

I saw that a while ago, not quite the same as f/b set up. Kind of apples and oranges.
He did a lot of leg work though.

WIllardTheGrey - 26-6-2010 at 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bigkid
I saw that a while ago, not quite the same as f/b set up. Kind of apples and oranges.
He did a lot of leg work though.

Put your strop through a ronstan pulley on a D-shackle?

DAKITEZ - 26-6-2010 at 05:20 PM

These are all great ideas and all have pos and neg things to them. but honestly I think if you want the ultimate in safety you need to build a full roll cage around the buggy and strap yourself in with a 3 point safety harness. I'm not kidding :singing:

Jeff talked to me on the phone about this the other day and he mentioned a roll cage. I didn't think much of it, but then it hit me as a good idea if you are concerned about bodily damage. It would be no different than a race car, baja truck, dunebuggy, etc.

This way you will not come out of the buggy. You will be locked in it. If something goes wrong with the kite where in a normal situation you would have an obe in this buggy the worse that would happen is you might roll over.

Just a thought.

kteguru - 26-6-2010 at 05:26 PM

As a suggestion, if your intent is to make it 100% automatic and independant of your input you will need to put the release system somewhere between the front of your handles and your kite. Making something that releases a strop or pulley doesn't eliminate our poor human reflexes of holding onto the handles too long. In nasty conditions, even those with superman reflexes will still be 4 ft in the air before you let go of the handles even though the safety did its job and released after your butt was 2" out of your seat. So it might be useful to focus on making a link that resides somewhere between your handles and the kite. Perhaps like the second video Chris posted you could attatch a leash to the buggy and the other end of the leash could go to where your top lines attach to your handles. This way the safety can release independant of whether or not you release the handles.

Just my 2 cents:karate:

arkay - 27-6-2010 at 01:46 AM

I like Bb's suggestion on weaker lines. Better yet an small cost improvement on that would be to use a short segment of weak line so that if/when it pops you can just replace the short segment and not trash the entire line. Just a quick larks head. But you'll also probably want to always fly under powered.

The only other way I can see to have a non-pilot assisted system w/o buggy mod is to tether the kite to the buggy and you seperatly so that if you seperate the kite power is killed. It would have to be in the center of the buggy, probably between your legs to be most effective. I guess it's a trade-off, the kite power could be killed when you turn hard by accident, when you try to get out of the buggy, when you get a gust or worse when you get pulled but can control it.

The roll cage is intersting, but there'll be a lot of line mgmt issues. And if the kite is powered enough to loft the buggy, I don't think it'd want to be in it. that's some serious force.

NaS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-s system is cool but I'm not sure it would work well for a strop system.

What about just flying well underepowered?

WELDNGOD - 27-6-2010 at 04:26 AM

look :borg:

.this is an extreme sport . If it was safe enough for grandma, I wouldn't be doin it. There is no "magic" device that is gonna let you kitebuggy w/ zero risk. It just isn't gonna happen. And if it did, I certainly wouldn't want one.

Fly hard , or take up cribbage. And ,if ya fly hard ,be prepared to crash hard. That means wear the right impact protection for the speeds and surfaces you are riding on.
Sorry to hear about Bigkids accident, but it sounds like ya were flying "overpowered" or "underprotected" .
Hope ya heal up good and get yer butt back in the #@%$#!pit and fly( not so over powered this time)

rocfighter - 27-6-2010 at 04:54 AM

In respose to BBREX line breaking system.
I have in my learning years with power kites done some dumb things. But the dumbest I did was when I broke the line on one of my handles and replaced it with much heavier line. Got in trouble then.
So in the same idea of a lighter set of power lines. Why not lighter tie-in lines on the handles? Far less cash involved and you still have your good lines.
So either replace the power ties on the handles with lines that break at (in my case) 200lbs Then if the kite is going to rip you out it just pops the handle lines instead. Sure you still get tangled up. But in worse case you grab another kite and replace the short line and off you go.
And an even better idea just a connecting link of lighter line. I think I'll do some steatching with an inline scale and pulleys see what snaps when.

heliboy50 - 27-6-2010 at 05:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by WELDNGOD
look :borg:

Little kites in big wind can lay the most smack down for sure. There is no for sure in this sport and break away lines/strops would require a lot of R and D and would depend on so many factors that everything from riding style to rider/buggy weight would make them very hard to produce. Really all any of us can do is come up with a system that works for us MOST of the time, do what we do, and deal with the unfortunate reality when things go even more wrong than we can plan for.

bigkid - 27-6-2010 at 08:36 AM

Wilard,
-I will call this week and ask some questions.

Dino,
-the rolebar is already in the works, still not sure about the 3-point harness, don't like seat belts either :smilegrin:

kteguru
Making something that releases a strop or pulley doesn't eliminate our poor human reflexes of holding onto the handles too long. In nasty conditions, even those with superman reflexes will still be 4 ft in the air before you let go of the handles even though the safety did its job and released after your butt was 2" out of your seat.
-My oldest grandson says "Grandpa can do anything". I would hate to tell him that I was under control in my OBE untill I began my dozen or so cartwheels as I wound up my kite lines like a rag doll. So we wont go there. Anything that works to give a little bit more safety will be in the right direction

heliboy50
-R and D in the business world is another term for money pit, but I will come up with something that will at least help

rocfighter
In respose to BBREX line breaking system.
I have in my learning years with power kites done some dumb things. But the dumbest I did was when I broke the line on one of my handles and replaced it with much heavier line. Got in trouble then.
-not a dumb thing if you learned something from it, but this is one direction I an going in, not being dumb but a weak link idea, :thumbup:

WELDNGOD
.this is an extreme sport . If it was safe enough for grandma, I wouldn't be doin it. There is no "magic" device that is gonna let you kitebuggy w/ zero risk. It just isn't gonna happen.
-I agree 100%, and the grandma remark is below the belt, ask any of my 7 grandkids. :smilegrin:

all I want to do is reduce the amount of risk for those who want to push the envelope even further, besides I bounce back just fine, almost as well as bouncing forward.:singing:

arkay
What about just flying well underepowered?
-Like that would be any fun;-)
I am awaiting a call back from a guy about Patients in relationship to A Weaker Link idea.

DAKITEZ - 27-6-2010 at 08:52 AM

I just have a hard time believing the weak link idea will work and still provide good power for the rider in the buggy. I can understand Brads logic that if the kite gets overly powered the line will break. That is a very smart idea. It may save the pilot and most definitely save the kite from possible damage.

The way I see it is if you have a 200# rider and a 100# buggy you will need something stronger than a breakaway line that snaps at say 180# when the rider gets lifted. I would be amazed if during a session that I do not put more than 180# of side pull on those lines at any given time. I just think that in the attempt to be "safe" and keep your butt in the seat with the weak link will cause alot of pre-mature breaking of the weak link. And who knows .. a line that breaks at the wrong (pre-mature) moment might be as dangerous as getting an OBE. All depends on the situation.

@bigkid .. a roll cage with no seat belt seams more dangerous to me than with no cage. Wait till the meds are out of your system before you start building anything :lol:

bigkid - 27-6-2010 at 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DAKITEZ
@bigkid .. a roll cage with no seat belt seams more dangerous to me than with no cage. Wait till the meds are out of your system before you start building anything :lol:

ROFDFLP, rolling on the floor dieing from laughing pain.
dude, don't you know that laughing is bad for broken ribs? now I have do double this dose of meds:wee:

flexiblade - 27-6-2010 at 10:53 AM

In my opinion the weaker line idea will be a limitation with loads of built in frustration. Lines snapping when your launching, lines snapping when your scudding, lines snapping when your power sliding in the bug, and lines snapping for no reason at all - it happens. There are so many other things that we need to contend with in order to have a good session it seems that literally building a weakness into the system would not be in your best interest. Besides frustration will make you do stupider things than you would do normally, avoid the frustration and forgo inherently weak systems.

Krohn1999 - 27-6-2010 at 10:58 AM

one question to the breaking line method;
How are you gonna get both lines to break at the same time? cuz if they don't you might really be in trouble.
Death spins create huge power untill the back lines break or tear out of the kite!
If you do any serious riding you are going to be swaping lines all the time. I am sure that I would snap them at every turn.
I don't really think "weak links " are really gonna work, but I hope you have fun trying!

snowspider - 28-6-2010 at 07:35 PM

I've been riding one variation or another of my snowspider sled hot wired for 3years and this issue has botherd me for a while.I like the idea of an automatic release and the above discussion has been inspiring.
When hot wired to my HQ kites I can install a single weak link between my depower pulley and the flying lines thus releasing both lines in the same instant. When Im in the buggy flying with a harness I can leash the top hat to the buggy , same result. Obviously handles present there own issues but I think the answer to a higher level of safety is in these discussions.

stetson05 - 28-6-2010 at 08:59 PM

This is where I go back to a 5th line idea. it attaches to the buggy and as you are lifted the shape of the kite changes, it loses lift. It doesn't matter if you let go of the handles or not because the kite loses power. At least how I understand the 5th line concept. If it works, your but lifts only a little from the buggy. The only problem I see is if you still come out of the buggy at speed and are injured that way. Of course, attaching a line to each kite is a problem and how to run it with handles causes a issue too.

bigkid - 28-6-2010 at 10:12 PM

Been playing around with the grandson and the buggy to work on the harness, and Q/R to the buggy.
Main problem at this point is the distance changes from the fixed point on the bug to the Q/R on the harness. If the kite is in front of the bug the distance is shorter than if the kite is at the zenith or behind. so high or low the distance changes any where from 2 to 6 inches. To much for any comfort at this point. I think a 5th line would not deploy until to late for my comfort. Grand son likes the fact of being hooked and lifted out of the bug with an electric winch, rather slow but you can see the changes as they happen, Still need more R and D

kteguru - 28-6-2010 at 10:40 PM

Others have already suggested this but have you given any consideration to switching over to depower. If your flying well within the upper range of the kite you should have a safe margin of error from when you depower the kite to when you trip the primary safety. And this would give you a great excuse to tell your wife you need to buy more kites:D:wee:

DAKITEZ - 28-6-2010 at 11:11 PM

I don't know how one would incorporate this into a buggy quick release, but you need something like my riding lawnmower has. The seat has a spring under it. when you sit in the seat your weight smashes the spring and allows a tab on the bottom of the seat to make contact with a tab on the mower. as long as these two tabs are together the mower will operate. as soon as you take weight off the seat the tabs separate and the mower quits.

Basically you need some sort of reverse mouse trap type design. You have to put your butt in the seat to set the safety and as soon as your butt raises up it trips the safety. This way there is no weak links or other misc factors. I still do like the idea of when the safety trips it would release the main lines, just like pulling the top hat on a de-power.

Hardrock - 28-6-2010 at 11:53 PM

I like the main line idea also.

Was trying to figure out how to use a quick release pin like you would buy at Lowes. Then put a sleeve over it that would catch on the balls.

Compress the inner spring tighter to make it harder to release. May have to machine a different pin for the inside and have a line attachment point pulling from the end instead of the thumb knob. When there's enough force pulling against the spring, the balls would move into the cut out on the pin and release the sleeve.

A threaded version would allow for indexing to set it for different force loads. This would work better for a strop line but if you could break away the main line between the handle and kite, then have it pull a release for the break line on that side and flag the kite.

Confused? probably but theres a way to make it work if you can get the principle I'm trying to explain but I'm not good at explaining as you see.

I need a machine shop.

Krohn1999 - 29-6-2010 at 04:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DAKITEZ
I don't know how one would incorporate this into a buggy quick release, but you need something like my riding lawnmower has. The seat has a spring under it. when you sit in the seat your weight smashes the spring and allows a tab on the bottom of the seat to make contact with a tab on the mower. as long as these two tabs are together the mower will operate. as soon as you take weight off the seat the tabs separate and the mower quits.

Basically you need some sort of reverse mouse trap type design. You have to put your butt in the seat to set the safety and as soon as your butt raises up it trips the safety. This way there is no weak links or other misc factors. I still do like the idea of when the safety trips it would release the main lines, just like pulling the top hat on a de-power.

HHHMMMM!! You might be on to somthing here. A piezo/ electric switch that when it has no weight on it opens a circut to a solenoid that is attached to the quick release causing it to open.

Now we just need to find a way to get this to work with
W-Lan and Solar power and the Problem is solved!:singing:

Maven454 - 29-6-2010 at 05:09 AM

Up until you go over a bump, butt comes off the switch for a half second, and there goes your kite fluttering away...

kteguru - 29-6-2010 at 06:22 AM

Quote:

Then put a sleeve over it that would catch on the balls.

flyguy0101 - 29-6-2010 at 06:58 AM

I have been a lurker on this topic and then it dawned on me, what if you flew on a turbo bar or the like and set it so that the brake lines were tight with the bar out and if you pulled the bar in it would stall the kite. In a moment of panic it would be natural to pull in the bar thus eliminating the power and luff the kite. Not sure if would work as i have not finished my turbo clone yet, but maybe jovver could give us some more feedback. below is a quote from the other thread SS turbo bar.
Scott

Quote:

As long as you have enough throw in the centerline, you can do pretty much whatever you want! To fly unhooked you may have to trim all the way in. I like keeping my trim all the way out so the brake lines are taught when the bar is in the middle of the centerline. I find that's a comfortable arms length for me. I can then "pump" the brakes as you said, and if I pull the bar all the way in I can stall and bring the kite down safely, or bring it back towards the middle of the window while buggying. It's all personal preference, and you will find out what you like best when you test out the rig for the first time.

herc - 29-6-2010 at 12:25 PM

Chucky - intelligent, auto-releasing safety for buggy pilots:

(its in german, because the developer is a german. translate with google.com)
http://www.spiritofsky.de/content/de/Chucky.html

at the bottom of this page below you see two videos explaining the auto-safety:

http://www.spiritofsky.de/content/de/Buggy-Kurs.html

bigkid - 29-6-2010 at 12:54 PM

herc, thats the direction I am leaning to. but once you leave the seat which looked to be 6 to 10 inches you still have the full power of the kite in your hands and are then on your way out and beyond the wild blue yonder. the kite needs to be depowered at that point.
I refuse to go to the dark side so the f/b kites and the handles will be my inspiration.

herc - 29-6-2010 at 12:58 PM

ok, you are right. if a sudden gust hits you, and you cant react fast enough to release the handles, then the chucky brain still does not help.

but you could attact another leach to the kite - brakes ? this way, if you get pulled out of buggy, the buggy will pull on the brakes after some distance, depending on the length of the additional leash line....

arkay - 29-6-2010 at 08:28 PM

That where i've been, teather the brakes to the frame between your knees. If you get lofted the buggy will pull on the brakes. Of course, if you are stroped in you are likley to get whiplash from the pull of the buggy, and if the winds/kite are strong enough to loft you then the brakes on the kite alone will likley pull the buggy down wind for a while.

I don't like the idea of hot wireing to the buggy for safty, though I plan to try it anyway

So I think you want the kite attached to you. Which means the only reference point you have to OOBE are the buggy or a an accelerometer

Being an electronics guy, I don't think you want anything automatic that's non-mechanical. Too many things can go wrong. I'll give +1 point to the mechanical engineers on this one.

ripsessionkites - 29-6-2010 at 08:56 PM

dunno what happend to you jeff ... get well soon. but it sounds like you had a huge OBE. OBE happen from time to time, and its normally because you're doing something wrong or keeping your kite too high at full speed or riding overpowered?

if you ride overpowered you need to learn how to control it. im a small guy but i fly 1 to 3 sizes bigger than the rest. its all kite placement and learning how to maneuver it when in trouble. if you incur an OBE the last thing I would want to do is let go, the kite is going to help bring you back down if you go straight up. one way to bleed off speed too is to drift yourself downwind and than curve upwind to power slide / slow down.
you have a set of Cent II, so they sit far to the edge, so if you're in trouble its better to push out your handles and let if overfly. most people like to yard on their brake, that okay but you need to move your hand all the way down near bottom and pull hard to stall it out.

if you're flying in a lot of gusty conditions, i suggest shorter lines too.

i use a PL Pulley Spreader and in the up position you can make the strop line fall out by using your thumbs.

I hear you broke some ribs, how high are your side rails? maybe add some more padding or pickup some rib protectors from a Go-Kart shop.

like I mentioned to daskirtz, i will go depower when my hands stop working, and when i cant buggy anymore ill move to a blokart.

flexiblade - 29-6-2010 at 09:52 PM

Don't rule out the arcs. I have been in some very treacherous winds with them and they have treated me very fairly. Only the fixed bridles, and mainly the small ones, have been culprits of my injuries. I'm just saying that if all else fails they'll be there for ya.

bigkid - 29-6-2010 at 10:04 PM

I have 2 blokarts but I ain't ready to only do that full time. As for the dark side, that to will have to wait also. I see the trauma surgeon tomorrow so I will find out then how I am doing and when I can get back in the bug.
Everyone has put in great stuff. I have some good info and some good ideas, just need the body to agree it's time to do some R and D.

kteguru - 29-6-2010 at 10:42 PM

Rip's post sounded like my first one. We must think alike Rip :smilegrin:

.

As for those who are thinking of putting a leash from the back lines down to the buggy let me prewarn you that this is an exceptionally exceptionally bad idea! I did this for the hell of it once quite some time ago as it seemed reasonable just as many of you may think. What is essentially guaranteed to happen is that when you are lifted your buggy will go right up into the air with you and when you come down you are going to be wishing you were never connected to anything. When you go up with the kite you have 160lbs (in my case) of your weight on the main lines. The weight on your back lines that you expect to somehow overpower this situation to kill the kite is (in my case) a buggy of about 55 lbs. All the buggy does is go right up with you. Even the heaviest buggies don't come in much past 120lbs which isn't enough to kill the kite if your in the air still holding onto the handles. Unless of course you weigh less than your buggy. Just a suggestion of course but I though it was important to mention this as the wreck that will come from this could be very ugly. I got lucky the day I did this years ago,,,,,very lucky.

ripsessionkites - 30-6-2010 at 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by kteguru
Rip's post sounded like my first one. We must think alike Rip :smilegrin:

speedster think a like i guess. =)

i have your quick release, hook knife would be another option.

QR Strop line

snowspider - 30-6-2010 at 04:41 PM

BK If you're hooked to your harness and the kite is snatching you out of the buggy skyward its pulling at a force greater than your weight. With a "quick disconnect" this force would instantly be transfered to your hands. My guess is that the handles would be ripped from your hands disconnecting you from the kite. What happens to you , buggy and kite after that is anyones guess.
You could test this by flying static hooked in with a shoelace or whatever and have someone cut the connection. If you can hang on chalk one up to lighting fast reflexes and an iron grip!
Better yet I'll test it and let you know how it goes.

heliboy50 - 30-6-2010 at 05:44 PM

I have had it go both ways- death grip yanked me sideways 18+ feet (still a newb with poor judgment at that point) and had handles ripped out of my hands at NABX. Dunno- this is a tricky subject without a one answer fits all ending. Little fb's on the playa are a different animal than the same kites on soft (or even hardpack) beach sand.

bigkid - 30-6-2010 at 07:17 PM

Well I got back from the trauma surgeon a bit ago and the good news is surgery wont happen for 4 to 6 weeks. The bad news is no bugging for 6 to 8 months after that.
I sent off the drawings to the patient attorneys and got a reply from a company about making up the Q/R systems. So thus comes to an end a wonderful summer.

arkay - 30-6-2010 at 08:56 PM

Hopefully he told you that the forum would likely be considered prior art if someone decided to copy your design (first to invent). In some countries it's not patentable if disclosed (public disclosure), and in others it's first to file. Guess it depend on your goals. But a word of caution if you think the patent will offer replication protection.

heliboy50 - 30-6-2010 at 09:38 PM

If I may be of assistance/perform crash testing for you this summer, Jeff, let me know. When people want to know if something is idiot proof, they give it to me. I can screw up drinking straws.:Ange09: :smilegrin:

Feel better, man.

WIllardTheGrey - 30-6-2010 at 11:17 PM

If needed I would be happy to be a test dummy for ya as well.:frog:

Crash Test Dummy - 14-11-2010 at 08:25 AM

I have just found this forum, so I'm coming in on this thread a bit late, but has anyone tried quick release shackles, directly onto the handles, activated by the killer straps - either on the top lines or onto the strop? then the kite could be killed with the killers as soon as the handles leave you hand?

bigkid - 14-11-2010 at 09:41 AM

Why yes we have

bigkid - 14-11-2010 at 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Crash Test Dummy
I have just found this forum, so I'm coming in on this thread a bit late, but has anyone tried quick release shackles, directly onto the handles, activated by the killer straps - either on the top lines or onto the strop? then the kite could be killed with the killers as soon as the handles leave you hand?

I have 2 systems I have been working on. One is self deploying-it is used with a QR system that will release the strop from the pulley as you raise up off the seat of the buggy. I have used this a few times lately and it works rather well. I have faith I will never fly unintentionally again.
The second system is when using a strop and QR system you just let go of the handles and the killers are deployed, as you would if using handles and killers and not using a QR.
The handles are slow as the patent lawyers and patent office are working together. The $ aspect of this endeavor is rather pricey so it is slow.

Crash Test Dummy - 15-11-2010 at 07:35 AM

I'm trying the same quick releases we have been using on dual lines for many years - so far so good. It is the old "Mouse trap" type and works fine on the dualies, and looks to be good for the quads.

I have only recently come back to power kites after a few years playing with the other toys, and quads are potentially much safer on our narrow beaches locally (Natal South Africa) - thus I'm looking to see what has been developed over the last few years. But so far the old way still looks best .