Power Kite Forum

Converting a normal fixed bridle bar to crossover

jaymzmn - 19-9-2011 at 09:41 AM

Any of you kite tinkerers know how to convert a normal fixed bridle bar to cross over ?

I got an Ozone Flow 5m on bar but coming recently off a HQ Scout, I find it turns a little slow. Not wanting to go Turbo, I wondered if there is an easy way to convert the bar to cross over.

Thanks for any input!

James

indigo_wolf - 19-9-2011 at 10:40 AM

Jovver and Kamikuza did that about two years ago:

Slingshot Turbo Bar

Point of clarification.... on the Ozone Turbo Bar the Chicken Loop line runs through a center of the bar and that is your connection point.

Other X-over bars used a D-Loop to connect the harness to and the line that runs through the bar attaches to a wrist leash.

A lot of FB bars don't have a center passthrough on the bar.... often a stainless steal ring is velcroed to the bar for the safety wrist leash line and nylon webbing runs out to a single pulley that runs to the brake leaders.

The point is that if you are doing a conversion, it might be easier to start with a blank depower bar with the center hole already built-in.

Hope that helps.

ATB,
Sam

John Holgate - 19-9-2011 at 02:45 PM

Or if you're a real cheap, miserable b^%tard like me, you can make one up out of a piece of dowell and some lawn mower cord....Home made turbo bar. I just took some approximate measurements from the turbo bar flyer on the ozone bar and ripped it off. This was, of course, just to see whether or not to actually spend the money on the real deal :smilegrin: Which I eventually did and now I won't buy a fixed bridle for buggying unless it works well on the turbo bar.

Although if I ever get into racing, I reserve the right to change my mind........

djinnzfree - 19-9-2011 at 02:57 PM

Ozone frenzy 5mē are back in 2012 check on flyozone... :singing:

WELDNGOD - 19-9-2011 at 03:00 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by jaymzmn
Any of you kite tinkerers know how to convert a normal fixed bridle bar to cross over ?

I got an Ozone Flow 5m on bar but coming recently off a HQ Scout, I find it turns a little slow. Not wanting to go Turbo, I wondered if there is an easy way to convert the bar to cross over.

Thanks for any input!

James
Why a bar?......... Handles are way better than a bar.

John Holgate - 19-9-2011 at 03:22 PM

Quote:

Handles are way better than a bar.


Personally, I find the bar much more comfortable and relaxing to fly with. But I'm not racing and I don't need the finer control of handles. I have never needed to do something with the kite that could not be done with the turbo bar.

I would agree that the bar is somewhat 'clunky' and expensive compared to handles. I also like the fact that on the turbo bar, the safety is exactly the same as my depower kites - not that I've ever had a problem releasing the pulley when on handles and strop.

Horses for courses, I guess. :smilegrin:

g-force junkie - 19-9-2011 at 04:59 PM

Hey you guy's need to check out a bar used by the old school flyers, I've only seen one but I can see the advantage on a fb foil.
It is called a bull horn bar,the front lines connect on the first bend of the bull horn and the rear lines connect out at the end of the bar. This gives you about a 2 to 1 input on the rear lines versus the front. Makes for fast turning like handles and easy to make out of 1" aircraft tubing,handle bar wrap,leaders and tubing bender.

WELDNGOD - 19-9-2011 at 05:04 PM

pics man, pics.......

g-force junkie - 19-9-2011 at 05:31 PM

yea I know that was lame to post without pics and next time I get with my bro I will get some pics. If you can picture a bull horn flat across the middle for about 18" then curving up for about 8' then curving out for about 8", kinda like a bicycle handle bar, front lines connect to the first curve and rears to the ends of the bar. Hope that helps and tuning is key for each kite.

dandre - 19-9-2011 at 05:44 PM

g-force was that a crossover bar on the pepper?
my friend keeps describing depower motions and I'm lik... wtf?

indigo_wolf - 19-9-2011 at 06:09 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by g-force junkie
yea I know that was lame to post without pics and next time I get with my bro I will get some pics. If you can picture a bull horn flat across the middle for about 18" then curving up for about 8' then curving out for about 8", kinda like a bicycle handle bar, front lines connect to the first curve and rears to the ends of the bar. Hope that helps and tuning is key for each kite.


From your description, something similar was used with Peter Lynn C-Quads.


Click thumbnail to open fullsize picture in a new browser window

ATB,
Sam

indigo_wolf - 19-9-2011 at 06:22 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by dandre
g-force was that a crossover bar on the pepper?
my friend keeps describing depower motions and I'm lik... wtf?


Strictly speaking, when you apply brakes when flying with control handles you are depowering the kite.

However, that's the not the same commonly accepted definition of using a depower bar to change the angle of attack, airfoil camber, and/or canopy curve to alter the flight characteristic of the kite in active flight.

When Ozone released the Turbo Bar there was the random dispersal of some pharmacy grade drugs and the marketing wizards were given free reign to to pepper the marketing propaganda with the term "depower" to the saturation point of most grades of paper. This was done without making any fine distinctions between the two possible interpretations of "depower".

Unfortunately, this thrust the world of kiting into a dark age where fliers wander the beaches and fields with sword and shield in hand (ever vigilant of random ogre attacks and the occasional raid by a sour tempered dragon).

Note: While powerzonekiteports and fixmykite.com does exceptional kite repairs, in most cases, an encounter with a sour tempered dragon generally renders most kiting gear as a write-off.

ATB,
Sam

John Holgate - 19-9-2011 at 10:59 PM

Lol! Speaking of Random Ogre attacks...


Quote:

Strictly speaking, when you apply brakes when flying with control handles you are depowering the kite.


The trouble I have with this statement that at speed, in the buggy, applying brakes actually creates more lift/pull/power (cross out the unapplicable) It's all a matter of degree. Reminds me of steering a motorbike - steer left to go left until you reach the speed where counter steering kicks in and you go right. Now I'm getting a headache.....

dandre - 20-9-2011 at 06:42 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by indigo_wolf
Unfortunately, this thrust the world of kiting into a dark age where fliers wander the beaches and fields with sword and shield in hand (ever vigilant of random ogre attacks and the occasional raid by a sour tempered dragon).


haha thats funny you say it like that. My friend always laughs at me when I talk about conquering wind and mountains like I'm just off to slay an unfortunate dragon.

Bladerunner - 20-9-2011 at 04:47 PM

Onother option is the original crossover bar :

http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=3107#pid129...

This is what I used to use. Some kites took to it well others flew just awful on it. Usually smaller the kite the worse it flew in low wind. This was due to the pulleys playing on the brakes, I think.

Crossover_Bar_plans_lo-res.jpg - 11kB

lamrith - 24-9-2011 at 02:46 PM

Been thinking about getting on bar & harness. More like I NEEED to, flew the 8m papper2 yesterday in 3-6mph static on handles and my arms/shoulders/wrists still hurt! I was fighting so hard to hold on that I was flying with brakes a bit on all the time, easy enough fix I can shorten the power lines, but just tells me I need to get on a harness..

I have a donated Ozone FB bar and std climbers harness to get started. My concern is that I did notice the 8m liked brake input to really turn, it turn ok without brake but spins right around with brake added, nice and quick.

SO I skimmed a few of the cross-over threads here on PKF, skimmed pictures of various brands solutions. Based on my current bar I think an adaptation of the PKD design would be easy to do? I also think it would work for about any FB bar on harness?

Basically just replace the brake line thru the pulley with a pair of pulleys then cross link the power lines thru pulley's to be the brakes? My bar has the adjustable center line so it would let me tune the brake input a bit. Thinking larkshead the line on one side for the crossover pullies and the ends of the brakes connecting to power lines. That way it would be easily removed to fly std bar, or adjust the brake lines on power's to tune brake input for turns

I attach a picture of basic idea here. "Drawing not to scale"...

Thoughts?

crossover-hybrid-s.jpg - 245kB

Bladerunner - 24-9-2011 at 03:39 PM

I can't tell by the picture but I think you want a 3rd pulley where your safety joins the line from break to break? The Green line in the drawing.

lamrith - 24-9-2011 at 04:33 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bladerunner
I can't tell by the picture but I think you want a 3rd pulley where your safety joins the line from break to break? The Green line in the drawing.


Yeah hard to see, PKF made me drop resolution way down to attach.

There is already a pulley at the end of the center brake line, the green line loops thru it currently :-) After the upgrade there would be a total of 3 pulleys in the system.

lamrith - 25-9-2011 at 08:01 AM

I am curious on what pople ended up using for pulleys on thier customs? Looks like a Ronstant series 20 is the right size, but what about model/design?

The Standard pulley:
Ronstan series 20
Or the orbit lock with lashing thru the eye?
Ronstan series 20 Orbit lock

Also what sort of line do you use and where to buy it for the bar/cross overs? Themain lines on this Ozone bar are showing wear, it would be nice to replace it while I am tweaking...

krumly - 25-9-2011 at 09:08 AM

3mm (1/8") Amsteel or similar single braid Dyneema or Spectra for the leaders. Here's a link to it at Annapolis Performance Sailing:

http://www.apsltd.com/c-1486-single-braids-dyneema-vectran.a...

SIngle braid is easiest to splice using a wire fid. Very clean loops, with no bulky or strength-robbing knots. Best eyesplice is the brummel splice:
http://www.neropes.com/SPL_12Strand_EyeSpliceBrummel.aspx

I often use 4mm or even 5 mm for the main leaders offbar ends if I want pull them bare handed, but you don't need the extra strength.

Ronstan Series 20 Orbit blocks over the standard 20 series, although either will work.

krumly

Bladerunner - 25-9-2011 at 02:13 PM

The lighter in weight the better for pulleys.
I was amazed at how much they play on the brakes in low wind and small kites.

After much tinkering with crossover bars I went handles for FB and depower for bars. In hind site I was only delaying learning how to use handles to their maximum benefit. The way a quality FB is designed to be flown. Handles and a strop trump a bar every time!

krumly - 25-9-2011 at 06:36 PM

Lamrith -

Bladerunner is right - the weight of pulleys and added leader on the x-over bar can 'pre-brake' a kite in light wind, which is exactly what you don't want.

There was a bunch of discussion on x-over bars for FB foils in 2007. Search for the thread 'Crossover bar for fixed-bridle foils.'

I have strong doubts your sketch will work, but prove us wrong. What I never really like about the X-over bar is you still carry all the load in your arms, unless you add a harness loop (with safety release) directly to the bar. That's all good, but if you let go of the bar, you have to pull the safety on the harness loop to cut loose while the kite is fully powered with no means of control. And like Bladerunner said, handles give you the most finesse with FB foils.

krumly

lamrith - 25-9-2011 at 08:18 PM

I honestly am not sure about the handles on strop idea, just does not seem as simple as the bar. I also see most kite skiers using the bar? I do plan to go Depower, not sure when, maybe spring, so need to start getting used to a bar, hoping the added brake will make my kites more responsive while I get adjusted to a bar.

That bar I show has a chicken loop with release on it and I also have a a QR on the harness as well. Pretty easy to pop either release with a hand still in the center of the bar keeping the kite under controll.

What makes you think the layout will not work. Not challenging you, just asking honestly. I based the layout off the PKD design(picture attached), just the pulleys attach to the bar from the center not the bar ends.

I layed the bar out and locked down the center line and did some measurements. From dead center to full turn one way puts 6" of pull on the brake line going to the pulley, which will then pull 6" on the brake line. Not a ton, but should help speed up turns. This is mostly something for the 8m to help it around on the bar.

crossover - pkd.jpg - 104kB

bigkid - 25-9-2011 at 11:27 PM

Lamrith, the pic of the PKD crossover bar is designed for use with out a chicken loop and not to be hooked in, it was designed for the Buster Soulfly, from the 1.5 up to the 4.4, more like a trainer. It will work with other kites as well but you have to remember the bigger the kite the bigger the bar. Some kites work well with the bar and some don't.
If you are going to move to depowers then you should make the move sooner than later. The harness you have is not a good one to learn on as it is unable to let go if need be. Thats why the the bar you have is a depower bar with a chicken loop that has a release. Your harness and bar need a depower kite which you don't have yet, so a FB won't do the job you are looking for. The next time you head to Chambers let me know and you can try out one of mine to see how it works.

By the way did you go out today?

lamrith - 26-9-2011 at 06:24 AM

Hrmmmmm
I love to tinker and experiment which is why I want to see how I can tweak the bar I have.

I have a strong feeling I will go depower sometime in the spring once the weather starts returning to nice and flyable. Flying days will be limited and random until then at this point given our winters.

I thought all the depower bars the center line connected to the harness moved independant from the bar, which is how you power/depower the kite? The bar I have the chicken loop/brake line is locked to the bar. Thought that made it a plain jane FB bar?
My harness has a QR on it above and beyond the one built into the chicken loop on the bar, then a kite killer to the center lines pulley. The way it is done I could connect the harness QR to a buggy as a auto release if I was lifted from the buggy by a gust.

This bar is 64cm wide power line to power line, I will try it as is on the 8m 1st on a calm day without harness and see how it turns.

Yeah I was able to go out Sunday, was worried about the gusts early in the day as they were pretty severe, blowing 19, gusting 29knts. But it calmed down some late day and I put the small rigs up and had both kids flying.

John Holgate - 26-9-2011 at 04:29 PM

Sorry to say this, but I really don't think it's going to help you get used to a depower at all. What you have there is quite different from a depower set-up. Even my turbo bar responds quite differently to a depower bar at slow speeds as applied brake simply stalls the kite. At buggy speeds it begins to 'feel' like a depower setup.

For me, the whole idea of using a bar is so that the power lines can go straight through the middle of the bar to your harness taking all the load off your arms so you end up only needing a light controlling hand on the bar.

There are some good s/h deals around on depower kites - I would be looking to start there...

krumly - 26-9-2011 at 07:36 PM

Lamrith -

OK, looking at your sketch/photo more carefully, I think I'm seeing what's going on better. With pulleys attached to the end of the trim strap, you are braking both sides evenly if you let the bar out evenly. But if you turn the bar, you are only getting a 1:1 mix between front line travel and brake line travel. This would be the equivalent of executing a turn with handles with no additional brake input - not very helpful for turning a kite that likes brake input. If I'm missing something so far, someone please correct me.

The PKD setup is really a x-over bar like the sketch Bladerunner provided. The difference is the pulleys are set further out on leaders that are fixed to the bar ends as opposed to being tied close to the bar end.

With the x-over setup, pulling in 1" on front line pulls in the brake approximately 1-1/2" - 2" (varies depending on the lengths in your set-up and 'included angles' the brake lines make thru the pulley). The ratio of front line to brake line input in steering is fixed, and the x-over bar will work well with fixed bridle kites designed for that mix of front line to brake steering input.

Handles give you total authority over the amount of front line vs brake you use in a turn: leave brakes slack and execute a turn just by pulling in one side via the front line and letting out the other side via the front line, like a two line foil. Or just flick the brakes with your wrist to execute a turn. Or any mix of the two methods.

lamrith - 26-9-2011 at 08:10 PM

I am not trying to make the bar or kite like a depower, I am just trying to make a kite more responsive turning on the bar.

The PKD one shown is a bar they designed as a cross over for the buster soufly series. That one in particular is quite narrow as it was designed for only up to 4.4m buster or I would buy one for my 8m. The PKD is not designed to work with a harness.

The bar I have is an ozone basic FB bar with harness loop. The center lines do not pass thru the bar or move the chicken loop is fixed to the bar, It is there purely to take the load off your arms. The kite killer is separate and attaches at the center pulley, if I pull the chicken loop or QR on harness the entire thing ejects and kite killer pulls the brake, dumping the kite.

What I was trying to draw was an adaptation of the pkd concept, but rather than the pulleys fixed by the bar ends use the adjustable brake line in the middle that is already installed. Looking at it though, to get full effect would probably need the pulleys connected to teh bar ends to keep them providing full mechanical advantage. My design is just a basic line length offset of the side moving forward, not taking advantage of the full 12" the power lines are being offset.

I wonder if then I do attach to the bar ends like the pkd and leave the middle line as a overall brake adjuster?

krumly - 26-9-2011 at 09:09 PM

Lamrith -

I was revising my last post as you replied. Read it again - I think it will clarify a couple issues you just mentioned. Saw that their was no center line thru your bar, but figured their was a chicken loop with trim strap assembly floating free of the bar.

You have no way of increasing or decreasing brake on both sides simultaneously, right? Pretty sketchy set-up. I'd at least ditch the wrist cuff safety and change it to a QR safety that attaches to a ring on your harness or spreader bar.

Never flown a PL Pepper, but I bet your 8 meter will fly better biased toward brake steering. Someone else could chime in here. So you need the real x-over setup. My guess is the long leaders with pulleys nearer the bar center on the PKD version will result in less travel for the brakes than having pulleys right at the bar ends.

You could do the job up at the kite like on the HQ Scout II:
http://www.powerkites.de/images/stories/manuals/manual_scout...

Handles are simpler and give full control on a FB. Figure them out and then add a strop with QR if you want to take the load off your arms. No less safe than your current bar and you'd have better kite control.

lamrith - 27-9-2011 at 05:50 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by krumly
Lamrith -

I was revising my last post as you replied. Read it again - I think it will clarify a couple issues you just mentioned. Saw that their was no center line thru your bar, but figured their was a chicken loop with trim strap assembly floating free of the bar.

no my chicken loop does anchor to the bar, it is not hanging free, and I have no plans of changing that connection.
Quote:

You have no way of increasing or decreasing brake on both sides simultaneously, right? Pretty sketchy set-up. I'd at least ditch the wrist cuff safety and change it to a QR safety that attaches to a ring on your harness or spreader bar.


My setup currently does have an adjuster that adjusts the length of the center line above the bar and influences both brakes thru the pulley, the kite killer is attached at the pulley and does hang loose to a wrist strap. I have considered changing the wrist strap to a caribiner for harness connection.
Quote:

Never flown a PL Pepper, but I bet your 8 meter will fly better biased toward brake steering. Someone else could chime in here. So you need the real x-over setup. My guess is the long leaders with pulleys nearer the bar center on the PKD version will result in less travel for the brakes than having pulleys right at the bar ends.

You could do the job up at the kite like on the HQ Scout II:
http://www.powerkites.de/images/stories/manuals/manual_scout...

Handles are simpler and give full control on a FB. Figure them out and then add a strop with QR if you want to take the load off your arms. No less safe than your current bar and you'd have better kite control.


The pepper turns alright brakes only, just slow like any big FB. Adding brake just flips it around that much faster. My goal here is just to get onto a bar. all the videos I have whatched, and thinking about where I will end up kiting long term (water dragging, snow kiting on ski's, eventually on depower kites) I believe I will be on a bar mostly and since I have a donated bar sitting wanted to start putting it to use. I will run it stock 1st, key is just to start getting used to being attached and controlling with a bar. Plus with our winter here and flying time vanishing the little project would keep me busy. idle hands are the :evil: plaything!

krumly - 27-9-2011 at 08:10 AM

Don't just use a biner for the leash. If it goes a$$ up, you won't be able to release the kite under tension. Which is also why I don't think having the whole mess hanging from your wrist is a good idea.

I understand the bar. Just saying not having instant control of brakes is not good. Having to yard a leash or pull a trim strap in and out to adjust brakes is pretty hinckey. If you're obsessed with experimenting with bars on FB foils on a budget, at least get a used bar with a center line, trim strap, leash with safety, and chicken loop with safety. Have fun but be careful.

krumly

lamrith - 27-9-2011 at 09:19 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by krumly
If you're obsessed with experimenting with bars on FB foils on a budget, at least get a used bar with a center line, trim strap, leash with safety, and chicken loop with safety. Have fun but be careful.

krumly

That is basically what my bar is and it has a a center brake adjuster. Yeah thinking about it, staying with the wrist leash is safer than a biner. wrist is just one quick tug on the velcro tab and I am free. There should not be any major load on that line since it is only connected to the brakes and the kite will be bowtied unable to fly deployed that way. Unless I run the kite into a moving object like a car, bike, lawnmower, and then all bets are off regardless..

Thanks allot for all your input guys!

lamrith - 11-10-2011 at 10:00 PM

UPDATE: I have had one short flying session (post work run to park and fly for an hour) with the home-made cross over bar.

IT WORKS!! I tried the std Ozone bar on the 8m Pepper2 previously and the kite just did not turn well, turns took the entire window and made trying to fly a nightmare. The kite just wants a bit of brake to really come around.

SO, I looked at pictures of other cross overs, this thread and came up with the set-up pictured below. Please excuse the knots, this is a rough up. (click images for full size)
Closeup of bar and cross over pulleys/lines:

Shot of cross over and lines out to kite:


SO total investment was:


The entire assembly installs with 2 larks heads and a "two half-hitch" knot. I have also built in a provision to link the pulleys to the bar ends for my next testing session.

RESULTS: Initial flight was not very good and all of 2 min, the brake lines were to tight and had the trailing edge deformed. The kite just did not want to get moving in the light air. I shortened my power lines a knot and this set-up works GREAT on the pepper2!!

As mentioned before, bar only the kite could barely make a full 180* turn from apex to ground in 3-5mph winds, having no brake input just did not work. With the cross-over installed the kite can loop and make 2 full loops from apex to ground! The kite is a joy to fly on this set-up. I put in a full hour of flying on bar and harness and it was a pure joy. The kite now turns and keeps <2ft radius circle with the inside wingtip. Not quite spinning on a tip, but not bad for a 1st try with an 8m. I was able to do figure 8's, upturns, down turns, fly straight down the power window and make a turn out the side. The kite would go where I wanted when I wanted. Landing the kite and kite killer braking was solid. A 2" pull on the center line produced enough brake to stop and land the kite, pulling more would invert the kite and bring it down inside out.

So I am very happy with the results so far. As mentioned my next testing I will try connecting the pulleys to the bar ends to see if it produces more brake effect.:wee:

dandre - 11-10-2011 at 10:03 PM

DOOD you NEED a buggy/landboard with that kind of terrain.
<3 the pepper

lamrith - 12-10-2011 at 05:37 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by dandre
DOOD you NEED a buggy/landboard with that kind of terrain.
<3 the pepper

Yah I know I know, Todd has buggied that park in his Sinner's Prayer video. The problem is it is a public park that is very busy with bikers, walkers and dogs. What you do not see is the walking paths criss-crossing that area.

On low wind cloudy days I could probably get away with it, but if the wind is up 8mph+ then the field is covered with other kiters also as it is the only open spot with decent wind in a 45min drive. If the sun is out at all it is wall to wall pedestrians. I get nervous just flying static as many peopleare not even looking where they are going and start walking right toward my lines as I fly...

Now with Video!

lamrith - 14-10-2011 at 06:17 AM

Video update!

Put a small video together, try not to laugh at the vid quality, editing or flying. Wifes Cam is not that great, I am working on getting a Gopro here soon...

Winds did not cooperate, was just a bit high and gusty for my to put the 8m up, so I ended up flying the buster 3.3 Already a smaller quicker kite it is tough to really see the difference the cross over makes until the last video where the change is exponential..

Going to try and link and make playable in this post. (Indigo usually fixes for everyone, but if it does not work, drop me a U2U telling me how to and I will fix it?)




I need to work on cleaning up the lines for the bar end cross over and tweak with line lengths, it definitely produced the most brake input by far. That buster was almost spinning on it's centerpoint! Winds were 5-8mph never steady at one speed for more than a min tops.

But wait, there's more!

lamrith - 25-10-2011 at 09:20 PM

So winds came bck up and stayed int he raneg best for the 8m. Sprinted to the park after work for a quick session.

After the last trip I did a bit of re-rigging. The center pivot line had been bottoming out on the pulley, so I put the original pivot line back and took the pulley off. I used the original pulley lashing and tied it into loops so that I can larkshead each pulley onto the original center line. The added length there meant making my power lines and the cross-over all much longer. I also moved the link point farther up on the power lines to compensate.

Ready to fly

It FLEW GREAT! By adding the pink between the pulleys and the power lines it adds in some exponential pull on the brake lines. That 8m dances in the air now. I had it pivoting on a wingtip without full bar throw. I flew for about 30min straight on the bar and it was a total dream. I could put the kite where I wanted, when I wanted. Brake work well, I could reach up and pull the center line a bit and back the kite to the ground. Kite killer would invert the kite no problem.

I tried to take video with my phone but it is 90* off and not that good I will work on editing tomorrow...

acampbell - 26-10-2011 at 05:25 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by lamrith
I honestly am not sure about the handles on strop idea, just does not seem as simple as the bar. I also see most kite skiers using the bar? I do plan to go Depower, not sure when, maybe spring, so need to start getting used to a bar, hoping the added brake will make my kites more responsive while I get adjusted to a bar.

That bar I show has a chicken loop with release on it and I also have a a QR on the harness as well. Pretty easy to pop either release with a hand still in the center of the bar keeping the kite under controll.

What makes you think the layout will not work. Not challenging you, just asking honestly. I based the layout off the PKD design(picture attached), just the pulleys attach to the bar from the center not the bar ends.

I layed the bar out and locked down the center line and did some measurements. From dead center to full turn one way puts 6" of pull on the brake line going to the pulley, which will then pull 6" on the brake line. Not a ton, but should help speed up turns. This is mostly something for the 8m to help it around on the bar.


Funny, that pic looks familiar...

lamrith - 26-10-2011 at 05:51 AM

Thought that was a stock pkd photo. Added your Info to the image, and updated the post.

acampbell - 26-10-2011 at 08:41 AM

No real worries, just funny to recognize my driveway :P. The stock bar comes with a diagram that indicates the use of a safety strap but does not include one. I add one to my orders.

lamrith - 26-10-2011 at 09:16 AM

Nice Angus,
Wonder if PKD sort of assumes you will be converting from handles and have KS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-s to swap over?

Gotta give credit where credit is due. Things like adding the KK to make a complete package tells me why you come so highly recommended on this forum ;-)

Now with Video!

lamrith - 31-10-2011 at 09:15 PM

I finally had a chance to DL and rotate the video from last week. Pardon the lack of quality, it is taken with my phone..

Wind was about 5mph sustained, toward the end fo the day up near 8mph. The video shown was lower 5mph range. As you can see it really spins pretty quick for a big 8m!

Probably the last I do with it other than cleaning up the lines. I have a pair of extensions on the cross lines. Need to clean that up and I think it is done!

Bigbear97e - 1-11-2011 at 04:00 PM

Lamrith .... you have that kite tuned pretty nice .... what do you think guys... dare we nickname him "DR.PEPPER":lol::lol:

lamrith - 1-11-2011 at 06:33 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bigbear97e
Lamrith .... you have that kite tuned pretty nice .... what do you think guys... dare we nickname him "DR.PEPPER":lol::lol:


HAHA Thanks Bigbear. As much as I would like to take credit, this pepper2 has flown like a dream since the day I bought it from BigKid. It is a true joy to fly it.

All I have done is rig up a homemade crossover set-up using pictures of various mfg set-ups and images in this thread..