As the subject says, I would like to ask the ARC guru's, the timeline of the PL ARC's and differences between them.
Personal experience is much more valuable then some website advertising,
The reason I'm asking this is because I'm really interested in aquiring one for me but since I can't afford a new Charger for the time beeing, I'm on
the look out for a used one.
Unfortunatly, in Portugal, there is no used market for ARC's (at least in the foruns that I hang out) so I'll have to search in European foruns,
specially, in the UK).
Found some Scorpions, Guerrillas, Bombas but it's difficult to know which was is more adequate to what I want not knowing anything about those kites.
I landboard in a beach that can have the most steady onshore 10 mph wind (where I put my Twister IIR 5.6m to good use) or a really fustrating offshore
5mph with 15-20mph gusty wind. With this type of winds and after reading alot about different types of kites, I truly believe I'll be well served with
an ARC but only after knowing more about them.
Thank you all for your input...
P.S.: I'm waiting for a demo of a 10m Charger to be ARC baptized, :Dflyjump - 18-10-2011 at 06:24 AM
ok, i'm sure someone will find the link to the arc comparison page but i wanted to give some input about the charger 10m.
ITS REALLY FAST! chargers are really great kites, but the smaller sizes are aggressive in stronger winds....which is what they are meant for. Be
careful when you demo it, it may turn you off to arcs because it'll be scary shooting across the window.
I think it is better to start with a larger size, maybe an old 13m venom or 16m venom. the are more stable and not so whippy. im 165 pounds and my
go to kite is a 19m charger. my normal winds are 15-25mph. Its a big powerful kite, but more importantly it is very stable since there is so much
fabric there. i don't take out my 12m charger unless wind is 30mph plus.
If i was you, i would look for a venom, vortex, or bomba. they are more stable and not so fast. They can do everything you'll need, especially for
landboarding. but you will be much safer..........more to comeBladerunner - 18-10-2011 at 06:52 AM
For what it is worth , I traded my 10m Charger for a 10m Synergy.
As Adam mentions the Chargers are the most responsive of all arcs. Amped up even !
Arcs I suggest are . 13m Venom , VII, 12 or 15m Synergy. Scorpian can be a good deal but are a bit unforgiving, so ... ??
Older arcs all have the strong auto zenith and gust munching but are slower turning and have less depower.flyjump - 18-10-2011 at 07:07 AM
Here is a really quick over view. this is an extremely broad list, not complete by any means, but generally how these kites fly
Guerilla- oldest of the current arcs (excluding the F-arc...sorry Feyd!) Powerful, slow turning, lifty
Guerilla 2- Never used this one
Bomba- slow turning, very grunty, low aspect. Easy to relaunch.
Phantom- High Aspect, not as slow turning, extremely lifty, good park and ride style kite
Venom- mid aspect, better turning, good lift, good grunt, easy to learn with
Vortex- mid/low aspect, good turning, good grunt, easier relaunch, ok lift, easy to learn with
VenomII- good turning, good lift, more comparable to same era of kite surfing kites. Easy to use
Scorpion-Mid/high aspect, good turning, amazing lift, skilled relanch, not as forgiving, a little twitchy(my personal favorite of the older arcs)
Synergy- mid aspect, great turning, good lift, good relanch, easy to use very stable/ok low end.
Charger- mid aspect, fast turning, poppy lift, aggressive in high winds, extremely fastBeamerBob - 18-10-2011 at 07:19 AM
This will give you enough stuff to read for days. I agree on looking for those mid size kites between synergy and venom. Some love the Scorpions but
they have a reputation for some reason. I've only flown one for a few minutes myself and was an arc newbie.cheezycheese - 18-10-2011 at 07:29 AM
There is a 15m synergy still for sale here... from BRPLATZ. I believe
This would probably do you well... :bigok:markite - 18-10-2011 at 08:25 AM
On the arc list don't forget the original series - the S-arcs as they are now called: 460, 630, 840, 1120, 1510
an interesting side note - type "840 Arc" into google and look what you find; A property listing for 840 S Arc Way Anaheim California.
AD72 - 18-10-2011 at 08:35 AM
It would be nice if there were stickies on this forum. This is a frequently revisited topic.
Van's Wiki may be a good pointer.van - 18-10-2011 at 09:15 AM
I'm gonna try to move any information I see on this forum that is not copyrighted to the Wiki. Any copyrighted stuff will just get a link from the
wiki. It is an open right now so anyone can post as long as they register. Please sign the bottom of your post so we know you will be the one to
make updates. If you can create the same logon as your PKF logon, that would be great. You can use the same password also. All password are
secured so I can't see them either.
It is a non-commercial site so it's intention is only to help others learn about our sport.lamrith - 18-10-2011 at 09:31 AM
Fly - Thanks for that breakdown on models, it helps!flyjump - 18-10-2011 at 09:36 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by lamrith
Fly - Thanks for that breakdown on models, it helps!
i know that it is not a perfect detailed list, but its generally a good direction to start lookingWIllardTheGrey - 18-10-2011 at 10:10 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by flyjump
ok, i'm sure someone will find the link to the arc comparison page but i wanted to give some input about the charger 10m.
Also of note is the addition of a bridle in the Scorpion, Synergy, Charger. That really changes the characteristics of the kite.Soma - 18-10-2011 at 01:17 PM
Thank you all for your replies.
@flyjump
That's exactly what I was looking for: a list with the what and what not about the different models, :thumbsup:
Since my experience with ARCs is null, I'll wait for the demo before even considering in buying one but now, I know what to look for.
Seen a great deal on a Scorpion 16m KO for £170+PP ($300) but it's best to forget about it and wait for a Synergy.
Thing is, I'll want to buy from European Community person so I don't have problems with customs otherwise I would be more then happy to buy from any
of you US guys, :/
@cheezycheese
It's already sold, :/AD72 - 18-10-2011 at 01:21 PM
I bought my two Phantoms in the UK through Kitecrowd.flyjump - 18-10-2011 at 01:27 PM
the scorpions are a great kite, my personal favorite excluding the chargers which i'm on right now. it just takes a little more skill to relaunch
them. they have aggressive lift too.
the scorpion and synergy have the vpc bridle system which allows them to turn faster and tighter and also gives them a little bit better of a low end.
the charger is now using the vpc3 bridle system which drastically improves depower, turning speed, and now they have a much better low end then the
older model of arcs. good luck on your search!Bladerunner - 18-10-2011 at 05:01 PM
I am not so sure that the original S-arc series should be discounted ?
While they didn't have the greatest depower they fly well and are very stable. I really like my 460 a lot !
The Farcs are best avoided as an intro.
I am more and more pleased with my 18m Phantom every time I take it out !
Please be aware that arcs need a lot of wind. The 10m Charger you will demo will actually perform at it's best in the 20kts range. Testing it in winds
you feel comfortable with may give you a false impression on how these kites work ! Do you have somebody familiar with arcs local to help you out ?flyjump - 18-10-2011 at 05:07 PM
the only reason i'm not including the F-arc and S-arc series because of something i read. on the PL website a few years ago i read that the guerilla
series of kites was really when the arcs gained their "comparable to other kites" status. I don't really know much about it, its just something that
i read. It seems that it set the standard on arcs. i've never used either of them, so i can't really give out any infoelnica - 18-10-2011 at 06:39 PM
not sure what 300 quid are but sounds cheap maybe...Feyd - 18-10-2011 at 06:46 PM
If the Guerilla is hardly what I would have regarded as "comparable to other kites". That kite was a dog and if it had been my first Arc I probaly
wouldn't have pursued other designs.
I've had little expirience with the S series. I have an 840 but I whipped into a backstop and now she's done.
I agree with Bladerunner that an F-Arc is NOT a beginner kite. But if you really want to measure your flying ability get out on one and see how you
do. That the kite offers no compassion when the winds pick up. I'd heard the horror stories and can see why they exist but if you can commit and
have the where with all and strength to push it around you'll have a hell of a good time. ;-)
I'm completely amazed at what those things do.
The Phantom 1, which is based on the F-Arc is such a dissapointment in comparison. It's a nice kite, don't misunderstand me, but it's supposed to be
a slightly mellower F-Arc. But in reality it's a castrated one.
Very much as described. Park and ride.
I love my Chargers. I love my Phantom 2's as well, maybe a little bit more. But neither has the raw power or upwind abililty of the F-Arcs.:wee:
I would save the Venom one was the real game changer for the series. Same basic design as the G1 and G2 but with better turn rate and resulting
better pop. The V2 was an even bigger step forward as it took the V1 and incorprated all the mods that had been developed for the V1.
@Soma. The best advice I can give you is try to fly the demo with someone with substantial Arc expirience if you can. Very few people really know
what makes an Arc tick and how to get the most out of them. There are a lot of donkeys out there that have a little Arc expirience and think they're
experts. In regards to the Charger 10m unless you've flown older Arcs I don't think the speed will be much of an issue. Especially if you've had
some expirirence flying LEIs or small fixed bridles. Sure, it's fast but not too fast.
My caution would be towards the lift. She's small but it's still a Charger and the small ones are as lifty as the bigger ones but without the
glide.;-)markite - 18-10-2011 at 06:48 PM
"quid" is to pounds as "bucks" is to dollarsmarkite - 18-10-2011 at 07:31 PM
I understand exactly what Chris (Feyd) is saying about the arc line up - and others on here who will understand but not like the same kites but for
different reasons. When the S Arcs came out it was hard to get a grasp on sizing when moving from fixed bridle to the twinskins but eventually
realizing they really rocked in higher winds. I had great water sessions with my 840 but found the 1120 and 1510 were slower and didn't quite deliver
compared to inflatables I was mixing with - didn't have the steady power delivery and quite often I was probably flying them a little below what would
have been a better wind range. When the Gs came out a bunch of our local arc users liked them because they offered a better depower range and had
lighter bar pressure and very forgiving. Myself and some others found them tamed down especially in the larger sizes. The G22 was a super dog - big
yes but hard to get any power and like driving a bus. The Phantoms then gave a kite that provided great winter riding - leave the kite flying to do
other things while staked or flying from my harness, very stable and great upwind and super in a buggy and had a lot of P15 water sessions. Overall
though still not a fan of the 18 and although I could ride the 15 in winter into some pretty high wind it was tough to coax anymore speed out of it.
On the water the small sizes were a great fall back when we get high gusty winds and the bigger sizes made for a comfortable and very dependable kite
and perfect to take when kiting alone. But again compared to advances in the LEI kites they were starting to feel too flexible giving a bit of the
helix shape when throwing it around so it would loose a bit on turning response compared to the rigid LEI - so on larger sizes the LEIs were starting
to give a better ride and becoming better at relaunch and safety. But the phantoms still gave us what we wanted in the buggy. The venoms came out and
Scorpions and our broad local arc users moved on to both. Again large Venoms seemed like so much work to drive around - when solid wind they are a sky
hook, less than that you can get carpal tunnel working the bar so much. Again rode both on the water and both worked in winter and in the buggy. The
Scorpions could be finicky to launch - and on occasion they took a lot of cursing from almost impossible launching with a few in particular. In the
buggy I could go fast enough but they would have a little more bobble compared to a Phantom's stability. Used my 16 on the water a lot and had some
great riding days, nice jumps with some good vertical not quite as much float. But what I didn't like was again I found I really had to work the bar a
lot compared to my LEIs. Vortex was okay but not my cup of tea. For guys who wanted one kite to use for everything and every condition but far from
the most aggressive riders this was their reliable choice. I found on the water i would be in and out of the power zone quickly as I changed angle
upwind, not a gradual drop off but more like going through a door and having it disappear.
As surfing took off the amount of buggy riders declined as our season goes winter and water and the beaches to buggy not as accessible all year round
so in our local group and with much of the arc users the performance on water drove the design acceptance. The faster turning kites with more grunty
power makes the Synergy and now Charger better for that. Still all perform well in the winter but depends if you are looking for speed, jumping or
general all round use what will appeal to you. In a buggy the faster turning kites with the sacrifice of stability is not what we wanted - fast yes in
terms of forward speed and riding a high angle upwind. but we want a kite that you can comfortably hold with one hand and grip the side rail with your
other arm and there is no fear that kite will want to swing up and redirect on you. In winter or on the water i love a kite I can throw around and the
turning speed is awesome. So overall a mixed bag of characteristics on different kites and different sizes within those designs that I like. It does
surprise me to see some people expressing their likes of some kites that I felt I had moved on from to better things (but I do understand).
I would love a clearly defined - market strategy for the designs but understand it's asking a lot from a very small market share and actually small
user base compared to other kites.
have the following choices:
- a kite that is clearly a good stable reliable kite to learn with - probably built a little tougher to take some beginner abuse and priced different
from the rest of the range.
- a kite that is targeted at power and turning speed good for snowboard/ski jumpers, landboards and water
- a kite again more of a land based speed kite for buggiers and skiers
OR
find the holy grail of putting all kinds of strap adjustments and bridle configuration options that will give you two kites in one depending on what
you want. But like anything trying to appease all, you never get it being the best at any one thing
ramble, ramble ramble....I'm not even going to read this over to see if what I wrote made sense, I should be doing some work...AD72 - 18-10-2011 at 08:49 PM
Well written Mark. Thank you. It is interesting the way the progression from one model to the next has not necessarily been progressive
improvements on a design (except maybe V1 to V2) but really changing flight characteristics. Kind of like a musical group that changes its style with
each album. Some of the releases are years apart.
I am going to have to start another thread about Ocean Rodeo kites to get the insight from you on them as well. I like it when products have a good
design and are just slightly improved over time. The OR Mako and North Rebel come to mind.lamrith - 18-10-2011 at 08:52 PM
Yeah I have learned a good bit from this thread, thanks all, especially OP for starting this brain dump!markite - 18-10-2011 at 09:08 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by AD72
I am going to have to start another thread about Ocean Rodeo kites to get the insight from you on them as well.
I went back and corrected some typos etc in that ramble
Speaking of Ocean Rodeo - in a way the Rise is like a Phantom II riding out at the edge, and the Razor and Cypher are more like a Charger, hmmmm a
Mako landboard....AD72 - 18-10-2011 at 09:36 PM
Oooh. So I like the Rise = I will like the Phantom II:DFeyd - 19-10-2011 at 03:16 AM
Well written Mark and very entertaining.
Interesting description on the Vortex. I'm always a little curious about that kite because A) I've never flown one and B) you rarely see them for
sale. People that I've met that own them seem to really like them. Now I'm more curious than ever.
I think the Phantom 2 will appeal to a broader range of riders than the Charger has for sure. I think it's more versitile than the Charger and the
Syns. It does have a somewhat "Synlike" feel but better. I don't know anyone yet that's flown it and not liked it.markite - 19-10-2011 at 05:48 AM
I think part of the problem with the Vortex getting out there was the marketing. Grant still has his product description pages up from the time he was
the distributor: http://www.canadianwindrider.com/products/vortex/
It was out at the same time as the V2 and despite many good characteristics the part about it being good to learn with put it in many minds as a
beginner kite. On the water going from the Gs to the V1 and then the V2 all improvements went toward faster turning and more power and pop - the
Vortex seemed too tame to the guys looking for more. It was hard to find anyone who knew much about the difference between the two (Venom/Vortex) so
in conversations you always heard "Vortex is a good entry level kite" from many people. The price was the same as the Venom so why would anyone want a
beginner kite for the same price as a V2 - that was the overall perception.
We took a couple of sizes of Vortex and Venoms out and flew them together buggying, surfing and in the winter and they had a lot of similarities but
the Vortex a rock steady kite, very forgiving, easy launch/relaunch etc. Venoms had a little more speed. On the water I was finding that odd power
zone. Everything was good and it was only when I went to try and angle quite a bit higher upwind that I would almost stop where the other kites I
could get a sense of slowing down and needing to work the kite.
Now I have one friend that got a Vortex 17 and he is the Vortex roll model die hard superstar. He used that kite for water and snowboarding - he's
shorter but not the lightest guy and also rides alone quite often. He would schedule a day that he was going kiting a week in advance and would show
up no matter what the conditions were and almost guaranteed to be the wrong direction or something light or crazy gusty - it's Dave's day. The Vortex
17 got so much air time and was so thin, patched, vented and faded it was like his comfortable pair of jeans. No matter what - super high wind, gusty
white out in the winter show up at a lake and ask what everyone was flying - Dave - V17, no wind on the water when kites will barely fly - what's Dave
going to launch - V17, on off wind - V17, it became a running joke get anywhere, look at conditions and smile at each other and say "V17"
Dave finally replaced his beloved V17 with a Charger 15 - that's a whole other story.... for another time.flyguy0101 - 19-10-2011 at 06:54 AM
Guess i will pipe in on the vortex since i seem to be one of the "lucky" few- I currently have the 10 and 12m and would agree with marks comments as
being super stable. It tends to sit more in the window then the edges, has a very steady pull, and will jump well but not as "poppy" as a venom or
venom II. The 10m is my son's go to kite and he is soon to be 12yrs old and about 100lbs, and the 12 was my "learning" depower. What they do not
have in pop or aggressiviness, is more than made up with in regards to stability and confidence building. I also will fly the 12 on a long bar and
the kite turns super fast. Biggest down side in my mind is the upwind ability definitly suffers. this past summer, Andrew and i were flying together
me on my venom 16m and him on the 10m vortex and it was easy to see how he had to really work his upwind tacks much more then I did.
ScottFeyd - 19-10-2011 at 09:43 AM
Gaaaa. Now I really want to try one.
Very funny about your friend Dave's 17m. Had a good chuckle and can totally relate.PHREERIDER - 19-10-2011 at 09:50 AM
good stuff mark!
V17 story hits close to home here for sure, i am the same way.AD72 - 19-10-2011 at 10:46 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by PHREERIDER
good stuff mark!
V17 story hits close to home here for sure, i am the same way.
That would be with a Venom 13 right?markite - 19-10-2011 at 11:15 AM
V 13 RTF (1 or 2?) up for sale on the Kitecrowd forum - says it had a lot of repairs but all done professionally, asking £200lamrith - 19-10-2011 at 11:48 AM
must.
resist.
D-ARC.
side.
Ohh WTH am I saying!?!?:dunno:
Resistance is Futile, its just a matter of time:Ange09:
I just looked at Kitecrowd a few interesting rigs for sale, but whats with all of them being heavily repaired?:puzzled:PHREERIDER - 19-10-2011 at 12:05 PM
V13 ! overclocked it into the 40s , as well as a V16 when i was 25 lbs. heavier.
oh the clarity!Bladerunner - 19-10-2011 at 05:19 PM
Nice write up Mark !
I agree that something similar on your experience with Ocean Rodeo development would be great !
The folks at OR are just over on Vancouver island and have always been respected for making kites that will stand up to our rough beaches. They
deserve more respect on land!
You could do a write up just on the progression of the Maco alone !
OR wet and dry suits are revolutionary !
Sorry for the side track.AD72 - 19-10-2011 at 08:02 PM
Anyone interested in a Synergy 15M?markite - 19-10-2011 at 10:14 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Bladerunner
I agree that something similar on your experience with Ocean Rodeo development would be great !
I think the arc is a unique design with a heritage that has remained within within the Peter Lynn brand. Inflatables while interesting in their
overall development there are far more flavours of apples in this basket. What Ocean Rodeo has done with their kites and boards could be argued is
what many companies do exploring their own ideas and many following trends - some setting them. It is so much a personal choice in brand and riding
style that quite often getting a good deal is all many people are interested in because gear gets cycled through a little faster. For me, Ocean Rodeo
is more about the personality of the company and most of the people that support the brand. I've always enjoyed and respected the people I've dealt
with and it's a company that has always been upfront with me about everything - just some really good people and also being a Canadian Company adds to
my support for them. Not all products have been great and even though I like riding certain kites and boards each for different reasons - I know there
are others that really don't care for them - to each his own.
I got involved with them when they started out and Active People (Brian Smith) became the distributor. What was more interesting at that time was the
relationship with Peter Lynn and the intro of the arc line and the interaction from that point onward. Still remember going to the Active People
office and seeing the first big F Arc pulled out and hanging up across the stock room wall - huge, kites always look bigger indoors as well.
okay i gotta stop wandering around in story time on this thread.
Getting back to the twinskins, another thought on my wish list of a few designs for specific purposes: 1) entry level with stability/more
robust/cheaper price 2) performance model for surf, snowboard, landboard etc more about speed, solid power and good pop 3) land based speed model
I was also thinking that they do not really need a broad range of sizes for each. For a beginner to intermediate model you don't need the smallest
sizes or the largest just 2-3 mid sizes, maybe just 13-16. For the land based speed design more on the smaller end like a 6-9-12. For the general
performance model that would be the flagship design needing a broader range of sizes.
okay I'm taking this topic off in another direction again.
- ahh, last thing, a buddy that has been to NABX was just telling me the other day his Synergy 15 is starting to get worn and he might have to start
looking for a back up Syn 15 if it's a good deal to prepare for the day his current one is done. Was it the one on Kitecrowd?Kamikuza - 19-10-2011 at 11:47 PM
"Getting back to the twinskins" ...
They tried that with the Vortex I think Mar - entry level low AR stability etc but I'm betting it didn't sell well and everyone went for the venom.
I'm betting Feyd will chime in with his thoughts on the P2 and Chg2 - you might just get your wish :D
Don't forget the fatties! I NEED a 24!!!Soma - 20-10-2011 at 05:22 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by AD72
Anyone interested in a Synergy 15M?
I am but as I said earlier ---^^^^^ , must come from EU.
I've seen some posts of you in kitecrowd and you sometimes go to the UK.
If the price is good and you can send it from there, maybe we can do business,
Regards...
P.S.: I'm currently biding on a 15M Phantom RTF. Let's see if I can make a good deal out of it, :DFeyd - 20-10-2011 at 05:15 PM
I think I've posted this somewhere before but I think it does a good job of illustrating the Phantom 2's flight characteristics in medium winds.
You will notice that she turns fast. It CAN turn as fast as the Charger but I was just off a wrist surgery when this was shot so I'm lacking the
muscle to work her hard.
She's fast across the window but tends to sit sorta on the center. Very stable, no "Charger Twitch". Lifts like a Syn, glides like a Scorp (IMO).
You will note the upwind abilility. (see snow blowing across the ice at around 2:34) Note the snow direction relative to my ski angle. It's not F-Arc
style but it's damn good.:singing:
I don't know how to embed the vid, sorry. Hit the link.
Feyd, are those S1's parabolics or old straight sides??Feyd - 20-10-2011 at 06:26 PM
That ski has a carve radius of about 21m. It was designed for GS type skiing which wih more modern skis would have too much sidecut. These skis are
minimal side cut (maybe 10mm)so there isn't the constant engaging and disengage that you have to deal with on a more shapely ski.
I prefer skis in more the 45m+ carve radius. But those skis were actually a lot of fun. Long enough and straight enough to haul the mail but soft
enough that I could bang some short carves on 'em.mdpminc - 20-10-2011 at 06:36 PM
BTW; there is a brand new Vortex 14m on ebay.com (little steep imo)
as well as Venom 16 and what looks like a prototype Bomba 13m
Several years back I had a great time ATBing with Bomba 13m on Large PL handles and 27m lines.
Rock solid, fast turning (on handles not so much on a bar)lamrith - 20-10-2011 at 06:47 PM
Yeah that Bomba caught my eye earlier. Fingers crossed....markite - 20-10-2011 at 07:00 PM
525.00 on a brand new 14m kite - that's very reasonable for a new kite. Think of the fabric and everything, like getting two new 7m foils for 250.00
each - that's really cheap unless it was some knockoff kite.
Now the other kites have way lower bidding and you might get lucky but they do have reserves on the pricing - wonder what that is.lamrith - 20-10-2011 at 07:04 PM
SHHHH!!!
Quietayy on the bombayaay!!
Lamy needs a Depower!:ticking:pbc - 20-10-2011 at 07:17 PM
Awesome thread here.
No surprise one of the lowest aspect ratio Arcs would get beat on the upwind by its higher aspect ration brethren. Lower aspect ration means a lower
maximum theoretical lift-to-drag ratio.
Philipmarkite - 20-10-2011 at 07:27 PM
okay off topic again but there were a couple of Russian guys living in Toronto that had arcs and would head down to Hatteras early spring and there
were always good stories like screwing snowboard boots to boards to use in colder water and getting looks from guys in Hatteras and the other story
was when he had his new arc and going through US customs at the boarder and car packed with gear and bags jammed in everywhere and maybe because of
their heavy accents they were told to go over to the side. He's telling me the story "agent make me pull over and check car, he ask what is in bag in
trunk, I tell him is bomba"
almost tore his car apart thinking he was playing games with them.Kamikuza - 20-10-2011 at 08:30 PM
"is bomba" AD72 - 20-10-2011 at 08:32 PM
Here is a theory why ARCs do not do well as low wind kites for kitesurfing and applications that have more surface drag: Forced air is used to
pressurize and create the structure of the twin skin, they need higher wind speeds to achieve a rigidity to create the necessary grunt/pull. Or is
that a load of malarkey and when they fill up they are just full regardless of windspeed?markite - 20-10-2011 at 08:35 PM
I think this spy footage may also have come from those Russian guys - someone was about to fly a clean prototype at NABX
wow ! the first thing i always see, to notice about the new arc proto is this seemingly ultra-thin profile ! looks very nice! should fill faster then
with less internal volume :-)
i hope PL works on the air-intakes. thats big problem with arc kites: this prefilling procedure. prefilling to some 60 or 70% works fine even in low
winds. then it would be really nice if the air-valves would work better and do the complete fill during launch ASAP. look at the flysurfer valves:
they literally seem to suck the air in, while the air intakes of PL arcs rather seem to be "closed lips". (or maybe i am just a burned scorpion kid.
with my synergy its almost fine. but there is much room for improvement, after i tried flysurfers. )Feyd - 21-10-2011 at 04:29 AM
I gotta admit the intake on the VIO kites are friggen sweet.
My Scorps beld air like mad. And we sealed up all the vents except one to see if it was leaking out the vents. I didn't make a bit of difference in
the air loss and funny thing, it inflated in flight just the same.
Made me wonder if you could place intakes in both the leading edge and somewhere mid-wing (for preinflation like an open cell foil).
Venom & Bomba
mdpminc - 21-10-2011 at 05:46 AM
Quote:
Now the other kites have way lower bidding and you might get lucky but they do have reserves on the pricing - wonder what that is.
Same Venom and Bomba are also listed on ikitesurf.com, $250/each
