Would you pay for a wide tire setup??

Quote: Originally posted by shaggs2riches

I will follow up with them. I think the issue that would become apparent, is that it would cost customers a lot more than they expect. You would have to buy new trucks specifically designed to handle the fatter tires, tubes and tires would have to be more expensive, and replacement parts may be in short supply.

let's break this by line.

1. "is that it would cost customers a lot more than they expect." Hubs and tires are already overpriced in my opinion. the people who NEED this will pay pretty much any price.

2. "You would have to buy new trucks specifically designed to handle the fatter tires" Some would, some wouldn't. all GI trucks could fit a wider tire no problem, just remove the spacers. Now, not EVERY deck would be valid with a wide-tire setup, some boards may experience wheelbite. but in my very limited time on a deck with HUGE tires, it was no issue at all!

3. "tubes and tires would have to be more expensive" not really, only fractionally more. tubes and tires that we need are already available from suppliers, we just don't have a wheel that is appropriate!

4. "and replacement parts may be in short supply" Really? Like the short supply that already exists for the entire product line? Good luck finding new eggs in your durometer for your pre 2008 MBS deck...MBS will tell you to just buy new trucks! (YMMV, FWIW)


I've ridden two oversized boards. one a trampa, one a MBS lil Bomber with newer 9" MBS skate trucks...with BARROW WHEELS mounted! it weighed a TON but it rolled like you wouldn't believe! Both boards turned and I did not experience wheelbite, but I did not ride them hard at all.

Quote: Originally posted by erratic winds

You can source and source and source and make it, yes. That's all well and fine for some people, but many just want a BUY IT NOW option. (hint hint, shop owners.)

The bottom line is that mountainboards are a niche market. "Bigfoot" tires for mountainboards are more so.

MBS Tri-Spokes are available on the MBS site again, but for quite a few months they weren't. Extrapolate whatever supply/demand thoughts you might want to on that.

New boards come out every year. When was the last time a MB specific tire came out? The thought of MBS, Scrub, etc. footing the tooling costs for new rubber with an unproven ROI seems.... optimistic.

"BUY IT NOW"?? .... even if one were available tomorrow. It's not necessarily something that's going to fly off a shop owner's shelf, and more often than not, it would be drop shipped.

My point was that there are viable options in the 9-10" inch range that are readily available locally. 4-ply tires (which are what most of the larger ones are) will incur a healthy shipping charge depending on where you are located.

Prior history indicates that they will generally only be available in sets of 4. Not a problem initially, but a pain when replacing damaged tires. That's generally not the case when they are "sourced."

YMMV.

ATB,
Sam

Why do you jump to new designs and manufacturing when I say some would like to 'buy now'? You were talking about sourcing parts as a individual. I am talking about someone taking it upon themselves to source, package, and sell, not manufacture, spend r&d, create a specific product for ATB, none of that.

Please don't try to use "niche market" as any sort of disqualification....isn't the entire sport of powerkite a niche market still...after 30+ years!?

It appears nearly every kite shop supports 'the long tail' aspect of the market, by making numerous small sales of varying products rather than specialization in a single thing (stunters, single lines, FB power, depower, boards, buggies, rather than say LEI only....)

Quote: Originally posted by indigo_wolf

MBS Tri-Spokes are available on the MBS site again, but for quite a few months they weren't. Extrapolate whatever supply/demand thoughts you might want to on that.

Well, as I understand it, there was demand, but as evidenced by the email chain above, MBS isn't all on the same page with itself..... Nor is MBS totally willing to support old tech when they would rather sell the new tech.(I have no idea why.) The Tri-Spoke is just about the oldest product I could find without revision in the MBS lineup, so it should have recouped it's r&d/tooling costs by now, making it overall more possibly profitable to replenish stock of. Now, again, if MBS would pack up a "9 inch tire upgrade package" that is wheels, tires, tubes, with a set of bearings in there....they might see a few more sales. Anytime I've looked in their e-store, I've not been able to put that particular package together, something is always out of stock.

I can go to one website and find some wheels I want, and then go to another website and find bearings that will fit in the space between the wheel and my axles, and then to another website to find a tire that fits on the wheel, and then to another website to buy a tube that fits in the tire.... but since I've not done that yet.... it's probably not happening soon. But click one thing, and blow $150-200 on a wheelset? Harder to resist. Again...Just sayin', my .02, whatever.

Quote: Originally posted by erratic winds

Why do you jump to new designs and manufacturing when I say some would like to 'buy now'? You were talking about sourcing parts as a individual. I am talking about someone taking it upon themselves to source, package, and sell, not manufacture, spend r&d, create a specific product for ATB, none of that.

From the viewpoint of economy of scale, it's the one that makes the most sense. Unless, a shop owner wanted to pay himself pennies per hour and stock something that he/she sold once every couple of months.

Quote: Originally posted by erratic winds

Please don't try to use "niche market" as any sort of disqualification....isn't the entire sport of powerkite a niche market still...after 30+ years!?

It's a perfectly valid assertion. There are niches within niches. The market for "Bigfoot" mountain board tires is probably much smaller than say... FB kites.

Quote: Originally posted by shaggs2riches

My sentiments were that it would be a whole lot easier and cheaper to go to the website and order a proven package that would give me (and other with the same issue) the upgrade without having to go through the trial and error stage.

Bottom line... how big do you want to go?

These are the Cheng Shin slicks on GI Mult-Hubs.








There is also a treaded version of the tires



Furbowski had a wide tire set-up here (bottom of thread). It eventually ended up failing, but that was because he was using Vegas Hubs and he was running it on only 3 out of 4 bolts. The tires are Primo Durotraps which are readily available in the State (and I expect Canada).

Another option is something similar to Plummet's rig, which I believe are Primo Spirits on MBS Tri-Spoke (it wouldn't be hard to confirm the details).





No, it's not a turnkey package, but you'd probably be talking about ordering from two sources.

ATB,
Sam

Quote: Originally posted by indigo_wolf

These are the Cheng Shin slicks on GI Mult-Hubs.

Referencing a product from a dead company(GI) as a valid option does none of us any good.

Quote: Originally posted by erratic winds

Quote: Originally posted by indigo_wolf   These are the Cheng Shin slicks on GI Mult-Hubs. Referencing a product from a dead company(GI) as a valid option does none of us any good.

Seriously? The GI Multi-Hubs are displayed for size comparison. I don't have MBS Tri-Spokes or Flame Cryptics which are the same class of hubs (second paragraph of my first post in this thread).

Pretty sure that Shaggs and most long time readers of this forum are aware that GI is no longer in business.

GI Multi-Hubs are turn up second hand. Lots of gear that is no longer available from manufacturers float through the For Sale section.

By that logic recommending an Ozone Flow, PKD Brooza or similar would be out of bounds..... sheesh.

ATB,
Sam

Quote: Originally posted by indigo_wolf

GI Multi-Hubs are turn up second hand. Lots of gear that is no longer available from manufacturers float through the For Sale section. By that logic recommending an Ozone Flow, PKD Brooza or similar would be out of bounds..... sheesh. ATB, Sam

Please stop misrepresenting my point. I have not said "you should not purchase discontinued products". I said "Referencing a product from a dead company(GI) as a valid option does none of us any good." If those who want were interested in sourcing parts, rather than a turnkey option, then it may be valid for them.

Hanging out in the for sale sections is sourcing your parts, just as if we went to a site for the wheels, and a different site for the hubs, etc etc etc.

Only 4 people have posted in this thread, so it's a limited sample, but it's 66-75% in favor of a turnkey solution that is not sourcing parts yourself. (unsure as to bigKid's willingness to source. I would imagine it's much higher than shaggs or I), and it's apparent that 75% think a larger option should be available in a format that is better than current "source all parts yourself".



A previous note I forgot to address:

Quote: Originally posted by indigo_wolf

Unless, a shop owner wanted to pay himself pennies per hour and stock something that he/she sold once every couple of months.

It was my understanding this is every single kite-related product for sale, in every kite-related shop in the world.

Every kite-industry person I know personally, in 'real' life, makes no profit selling kites and accessories, and has to have another source of income. IME, this is most often lessons & certs.

If kite selling is actually more lucrative than that, let me know, I'll open a e-store.

Quote: Originally posted by erratic winds

Please stop misrepresenting my point. I have not said "you should not purchase discontinued products". I said "Referencing a product from a dead company(GI) as a valid option does none of us any good." If those who want were interested in sourcing parts, rather than a turnkey option, then it may be valid for them.

That was not my intent.... and I would appreciate it if you would extend the same courtesy to me. I did not recommend GI Multi-Hubs. They are the only comparable hubs to MBS Tri-Spokes that I had and posted them as a size comparison to GI MAKs & Vegas Hubs (which <* gasp *> were also made by GI, now defunct), but makes them no less valid as an example of a "standard size" MB wheel set-up.

Quote: Originally posted by erratic winds

A previous note I forgot to address: Quote: Originally posted by indigo_wolf   Unless, a shop owner wanted to pay himself pennies per hour and stock something that he/she sold once every couple of months. It was my understanding this is every single kite-related product for sale, in every kite-related shop in the world. Every kite-industry person I know personally, in 'real' life, makes no profit selling kites and accessories, and has to have another source of income. IME, this is most often lessons & certs. If kite selling is actually more lucrative than that, let me know, I'll open a e-store.

Time and storage space (unless they drop ship) are also intangible assets to a retailer.... I am not even going to venture which sellers have sufficient quantities of either to spare for a venture such as this. It's quite possible that something like this would just be a resource drain on them as opposed to a thin margin item... again, can't speculate on something like that. I do know that more than a couple of retailers have told me that for things like nuts/bolts, amsteel, bearings, etc., I really was better off just buying them locally (if at all possible). This might fall into the same category no matter how much one might wish otherwise.

I honestly believe that MBS wouldn't be overly enthusiastic about jumping into something like this, but if I am wrong, all the better.

If anyone wants to do this as a proof of concept, one option might be to do a group buy through a dealer to shave some costs and get the one-stop shopping experience.

This isn't the first time a wide-tire set-up or something more suitable for looser terrain has come up. As there weren't a stampede of turnkey options offered in the past....

ATB,
Sam

Quote: Originally posted by indigo_wolf

This isn't the first time a wide-tire set-up or something more suitable for looser terrain has come up. As there weren't a stampede of turnkey options offered in the past....

And we will keep having this discussion until a turnkey solution is available, because obviously sourcing the parts yourself is not an acceptable option for most people, or we would not have to "keep reinventing the larger wheel" as it were.

Quote: Originally posted by indigo_wolf

That was not my intent.... and I would appreciate it if you would extend the same courtesy to me. I did not recommend GI Multi-Hubs. They are the only comparable hubs to MBS Tri-Spokes that I had and posted them as a size comparison to GI MAKs & Vegas Hubs (which <* gasp *> were also made by GI, now defunct), but makes them no less valid as an example of a "standard size" MB wheel set-up.

How would we possibly know that some things in your post are a suggestion of what to buy, and some things are merely a size illustration? You certainly didn't clarify that in the post in question.

Quote: Originally posted by erratic winds

And we will keep having this discussion until a turnkey solution is available, because obviously sourcing the parts yourself is not an acceptable option for most people, or we would not have to "keep reinventing the larger wheel" as it were.

As you saw no merit in the group buy option... and continue to wait out a turnkey option.... have at it.

Quote: Originally posted by erratic winds

How would we possibly know that some things in your post are a suggestion of what to buy, and some things are merely a size illustration? You certainly didn't clarify that in the post in question.

Apparently, the desire/need for turnkey solutions doesn't end at wheel setups. I assume that people either know that GI is defunct or can readily surmise it from a Google search.

Failing that, please feel free to retroactively go back over the entire forum and rail on anyone that has ever had the temerity to reference a manufacturer abbreviation or kite term without explaining it (inline) in painful detail.

@shaggs: Apologies for polluting your thread with responses to whatever burr has gotten stuck in EW's paw.

ATB,
Sam

Quote: Originally posted by indigo_wolf

As you saw no merit in the group buy option... and continue to wait out a turnkey option.... have at it.

Have never seen a link that is a group buy option that is *actually happening*. Have only ever seen people discuss it until it fizzles and nothing happens. If you have additional information, please link it.


Why are you frustrated with me? I'm not trying to be rude. Some of us have pretty clearly defined why sourcing parts isn't something we want to do, but you keep offering it as the option we should pursue, so obviously I'm not satisfied with that "assistance".

Quote: Originally posted by indigo_wolf

Failing that, please feel free to retroactively go back over the entire forum and rail on anyone that has ever had the temerity to reference a manufacturer abbreviation or kite term without explaining it (inline) in painful detail.

I don't know how you got butthurt (as the kids say nowadays) but I'll #@%$#!ing drop the topic already, and yes, apparently I'll keep waiting, and so will Shaggs, and so will BigKid. I have no idea what product in your post you feel someone should buy, and what product in your post you were just saying "see, it's possible!", so please #@%$#!ing forgive me for assuming the entire post was suggestions that we should try by buying them.


Finally- The thread is "Would you pay for a wide tire setup?"...could you at least get around to just saying yes you would or no you do not require or desire such a product? Talking about all the various options one could pursue if they choose to try and get wide tires only implies an answer, and "Market forces make this a non-starter idea" doesn't answer the question at all either.