Power Kite Forum - A Wind of Change won't make refund

A Wind of Change won't make refund

mikeskor - 1-4-2014 at 06:41 AM

Should a seller of a product be responsible for the loss of that product in the mail? Here’s the story: Last September, I ordered a Blokart for $1973 from A Wind of Change, a seller of power kites, Blokarts and other sports equipment in Salt Lake City, Utah. They said that the Blokart package was too large to be sent by Priority Post to my Armed Forces Post Office (APO). So they sent the package via Parcel Post, the cheapest and slowest possible mail option at USPS, although I had given them sufficient funds for better mail. They did not offer me the option of paying extra for Fed-ex which I would have gladly done. However, they did purchase postal insurance for the Blokart.
Months went by and the Blokart never arrived. I imagine it was lost or stolen by a postal worker. Parcel Post is virtually untraceable and postal workers can open such parcel when they want. Hence, they are very easy to steal. After the required 75 days of waiting, I applied for insurance reimbursement from USPS. A Wind of Change was pleasant at first and provided me with the documentation I needed. And I would get the insurance money from the post office, wouldn’t I? Not so! The post office denied my claim for insurance and never told me why, despite the fact that I have contacted them many times to discover why. So that just shows that USPS insurance has no value and is just a waste of money.
I have asked A Wind of Change for a refund. However, they dismissed my request, saying they do not want to take the loss. However, they don’t seem to mind if one of their customers takes a double loss of both blokart and money. If Kent and Daelyn Kingston at A Wind of Change actually valued their reputation and customers, they would make that refund. What do you think? Should I, the customer, on a worker’s salary, absorb the loss of nearly $2000?
I leave it up to you whether you should buy from A Wind of Change knowing that if anything goes wrong with your shipment, you, not them, are going to pay.

OmniSmurfZ - 1-4-2014 at 06:49 AM

That sounds like a bad scenario all around, I'm sorry man. I'd stick on USPS because it sounds like they are definitely in the most fault here.

The one time I've bought from Kent he was very nice and helpful.

B-Roc - 1-4-2014 at 07:28 AM

Is there no legal recouse against the post office. If mail was stolen then mail fraud was committed and that is a federal offense. Surely there must be some recourse other than the vendor and customer to address the loss of such an expensive item.

bigkid - 1-4-2014 at 07:29 AM

Not sure how it was set up but I have found that it is still my responsibility as a dealer untill it is delivered. I have had to run down a few lost in space items myself.
I hope it works out for both of you. I have had to pay for others mistakes more than once. Thats why I have a day job, it costs me money to run a kite business.:o
(just dont tell my wife), did I say that out loud? Opps.

carltb - 1-4-2014 at 07:37 AM

I don't know about US law but in the UK if you distance buy anything (online/ mail order etc) and you pay via your credit card then you are covered by your card insurance for the full amount. also it is the seller responcability to make sure the item is delivered not the customers. therefore AWOC should be chasing up the none delivery and not you. the credit card company would just take the money back from them at the end of the day.

acampbell - 1-4-2014 at 11:55 AM

From the FedEx web site...
"FedEx cannot deliver to PO boxes or to PO box ZIP codes in the US, including
US military PO box addresses such as APO and FPO. ... "

Unfortunately your order presents an untenable obstacle for any dealer in the world. I would have regrettably refused and refunded the order in the first place. AFO/ FPO orders can only be handled by USPS and when I ship there (I have a lot), I ship only by trackable and insurable means such as Priority or Express Mail.

I applaud Kent and Daelyn for even trying to fill the order. I might suggest, considering the amount of the claim, to contact your local home state congressman's office for assistance with the claim.

Same reason I won't ship to South America unless I ship through a commercial freight forwarder (usually out of Miami) that takes responsibility for the package end-to end, and that is at considerable cost to the purchaser.

Sorry for the trouble, though, That really sux.

riffclown - 1-4-2014 at 12:26 PM

Having dealt with A Wind of Change AND the APO/FPO, Your frustration is probably somewhat misplaced. AWOC is a great dealer and highly regarded among the kiting community. I've purchased from them before and would not hesitate to do so again. APO/FPO and our Postal Service is another matter and you need to understand the unique relationship there. The USPS delivers parcels/letters bound for APO/FPO address to the service points controlled by the military. Once there, the military takes responsibility for the transport and delivery to the Postal Service Center at your respective station.

Most often the APO/FPO system fails when the shipper accidentally puts the country on the address. like APO AE 00000, Italy.
That causes the package to exit the APO system and puts you into whichever country's customs limbo. I had a computer part float around in Italian customs for several months.

If you're getting push back from the post office on the insurance, ask for Kent's assistance in filing the claim with the post office first and then reshipping once the claim is paid. If the Post Office produces proof of delivery to the APO/FPO, then the Postal Service Center becomes your claim point.

The APO/FPO works hard but the USPS tries to disclaim everything once it's in the military postal systems' hands..

3shot - 1-4-2014 at 12:39 PM

Good post riff!!!!

As well. Nothing but pleasant transactions in the past from Kent and Daelyn too.

OP, I can feel for your frustration......

Clive - 1-4-2014 at 12:50 PM

Disappointing to hear of your situation.

I found the WOC people very friendly when I ordered a package to Australia , mine arrived so I have no complaints.

These days I mostly order local, as consumer laws here have more weight. Ie if it's not delivered its the senders problem period. They purchase the insurance so they claim on it. PLUS if an item is worth more than $100 dollars I insist on tracking and a signature upon delivery, that covers both the sender and receiver. Whilst tracking and delivering to PO boxes isn't an issue in Australia as you can't get your PO box item ( package) unless you walk into the post office and ask for it over the counter, I believe thieves are less likely to steal an item when it's being checked every step of thhe way.

As far as the US goes the USPS post is woeful, it disappears once it leaves your shores until it ends up at your doorstep/PO box. UPS however is brilliant, tracking all the way, and gets here in about 4 days. ( probably cost more than the item is worth to send some things that way though)
Independent delivery trucking agents here most will only cover for a small amount so you must have the appropriate insurance, it adds to the cost but.....
End result, always insist on the dealer sending it the the way you want it in your order. I know that doesn't help your situation, but for others it might.

Over here I would be advising the dealer that the issue was their responsibility, and for them to make the claim on their insurance ( even though you pay for the insurance to the dealer,they are the agent who purchases it from the deliverer ) I don't know how US consumer affairs works unfortunately.

3shot - 1-4-2014 at 04:39 PM

FedEx and UPS leave much to be desired at times too. My last 4 out of 5 shipments have been dicked up. The latest is my new Sleep Number controller that has been to four different cities in my state, and its not from logistic ease either :mad:

FedEx + Ups = Fedups

I digress......

Thanks for the responses

mikeskor - 1-4-2014 at 07:45 PM

You have given me some useful info. Especially the info about it being the seller's responsibility until a shipment is delivered. Some points:
1. I have a physical address also. So Fed-ex could have delivered to that.
2. The delivery never reached the military APO system. When it does, it is recorded on the tracking info. This never happened.
3. The US post office has washed their hands of this matter despite my insurance. And they take great pains not to be contactable. Just as A Wind of Change appears to have washed their hands of it. I only get snarky one-sentence replies when I contact them. A seller might appear nice when things are going well. Just wait until you have problems to see if they really want to help their customers. AWOC appears not to care at all.

awindofchange - 1-4-2014 at 11:37 PM

Mike,

I am very sorry that you have decided to take this publicly. When you said in your email that you were going to blast every kite forum and try to smear our reputation, I hoped that you would let us get this resolved but obviously you have chosen to do otherwise. Unfortunately this still does not get the post office to work any faster in resolving this claim. We have been in contact with you many times via e-mail regarding this issue and have supplied you with all the information you have requested. We are very concerned about this as you are, and rightly so. The amount is a large amount. As I have stated in the last few e-mails, we are in the process of working with consumer affairs at the USPS to resolve this issue and the claim has been submitted. The Blokart shipment is fully insured and as the shipper of the item, we assume full responsibility on getting this resolved. Unfortunately the post office is very slow in dealing with claims, especially when they are larger in amounts. As you have discovered, they can be very difficult to work with but we will continue to press until it gets resolved. Once we get this resolved with the post office, we will either ship the Blokart frame back out to you again or replace it with another or issue you a refund for the full amount. Unfortunately we can not do anything until it gets resolved by the post office. We do care a lot about your order as well as all of our customers and will do whatever possible to take care of this in the best way we can. I am just sorry that it is taking as long as it has and we have still not received an answer.

You fail to mention that half of the shipment did indeed arrive ok, the sail and the mast. The frame is what is missing and I realize that the sail and mast is not of much value without the rest of the Blokart, but is does show that we did ship in good faith. As we stated in our email regarding the cheapest and slowest method, we shipped to you using the ONLY method available. The frame is too large to ship Priority or Express and first class mail was actually more than the amount you paid - which we absorbed at our own expense. UPS or FedEx do not ship to APO addresses or we would have used one of those instead. You never mentioned any other addresses or shipping options until the shipment had already been sent. We made every effort to get your order to you as quickly and the best way possible. We are very sorry that it all did not arrive ok.

Again I am very sorry for the issues regarding your order and fully understand why you are upset. We pride ourselves in being a respectable and honest business and a sincere supporter of the kiting community. We have in no way "washed our hands of it" and will continue to work on it until it gets resolved. I am sorry that you feel that publicly tarnishing our name and reputation is the best way to fix this issue. Regardless, we will continue to work on getting this resolved with the post office and when we hear something, we will contact you immediately with the options.

Kent Kingston
A Wind Of Change Kites
Owner

Kamikuza - 1-4-2014 at 11:51 PM

Story unfolds as I thought it would... I knew we only got one half of the story, and an inaccurate half at that.

I think an apology is in order, mikeskor... to Kent, at least.

riffclown - 2-4-2014 at 03:31 AM

Never, ever, ever, trash someone that's trying to help you....It tends to make you look bad..

3shot - 2-4-2014 at 04:17 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Kamikuza

I think an apology is in order, mikeskor... to Kent, at least.

Agreed

To Kent:

mikeskor - 2-4-2014 at 04:22 AM

I will believe the refund when I see it in my account.If you really wanted to solve this problem, you would make the refund now instead of making me wait longer than the six months you have already made me wait. You can collect from the post office, if they ever pay up. Incidentally, regarding the part shipment that was sent via priority mail, you try blokarting with only a sail. You used the word "smear, " a word I never used. I have gone public as a way to make you realize I am serious about wanting the refund. All these things, you say you are doing on my behalf have come about recently since I said I would go public. I will gladly make an announcement here when I get my refund. Until, I see the funds in my account, what you have written is just words.

To Kent:

mikeskor - 2-4-2014 at 04:23 AM

I will believe the refund when I see it in my account.If you really wanted to solve this problem, you would make the refund now instead of making me wait longer than the six months you have already made me wait. You can collect from the post office, if they ever pay up. Incidentally, regarding the part shipment that was sent via priority mail, you try blokarting with only a sail. You used the word "smear, " a word I never used. I have gone public as a way to make you realize I am serious about wanting the refund. All these things, you say you are doing on my behalf have come about recently since I said I would go public. I will gladly make an announcement here when I get my refund. Until, I see the funds in my account, what you have written is just words.

carltb - 2-4-2014 at 05:25 AM

the bottom line is you are still entitled to a full and immediate refund as you haven't received what you paid for. the problem is between awoc and the postal carrier. waiting for 6 months is being more then reasonable

dman - 2-4-2014 at 05:40 AM

Having owned and run my own retail business for a very long time I have encountered many regrettable situations where beyond anyones control or best intentions, issues have arisen that created a very uneasy feeling of concern with the paying consumer. I have found it very intriguing to witness the shipping karma in action on those whom act like asses to very well intended retailers while their merchandise floats around in the whirly vortex. Almost always the ill intentions of the consumers public complaint contain partial truths while they paint out the "horrible" customer service and lack of concern on their behalf by the business they choose to do business with, and it seems so in this case as well. I have found as others will surely agree that Kent is a stand up guy and will do as much as possible to remedy situations that aren't perfect to achieve a reasonable outcome for his customers but I'm sure that "calling him out" on a public forum won't improve his efficiency in any way to make it right by you. mikeskor, you're acting like a child, the phrase "you get more flys with honey" comes to mind, man up, show a little more diplomacy, and you may get help on this forum that you wouldn't have otherwise. This is a pretty tight group that looks out for each other and I've been pleased to see some incredible acts of kindness bestowed on those in need when it's deserved.

Thank you, Caritb

mikeskor - 2-4-2014 at 05:49 AM

I still don't believe that AWOC really wants to make that refund. What Kent has written here is just words for PR purposes. AWOC would have done nothing had I not gone public.

To dman

mikeskor - 2-4-2014 at 05:57 AM

If Kent's attitude to his customers is as negative as yours, there is no wonder that I haven't received a refund. You should give me the name of your business so that I and other customers can avoid you.

erratic winds - 2-4-2014 at 08:17 AM

mikeskor- what's the name of YOUR business, so we can avoid it?

To erratic winds

mikeskor - 2-4-2014 at 08:31 AM

Kent supplies the PR and you provide the nastiness by proxy. I don't have time to deal with foul comments from a coterie of Kent's friends, aliases and business cronies who are attempting to chase me off this site. I have a legitimate grievance and expect a refund after 6 months of waiting for the Blokart from a Wind of Change.

erratic winds - 2-4-2014 at 08:44 AM

Wait, you came to pick a fight with the public, and now you only wish to deal with AWOC? Heck man, you could have *only* dealt with AWOC privately.

FrontRangeJeff - 2-4-2014 at 09:01 AM

MikeSkor:

Nobody is trying to chase you off this site. I assure you, Erratic winds (Nick) is not a crony or alias for Wind of Change...geesh. I've land boarded with him and have benefited from his tips and advice on more then one occasion - but that is just a rational response to an irrational accusation.

I think we all get it-you are super frustrated that you paid MONTHS ago for an item of a large order of which a critical piece you still haven't received. I'd be mega torqued and feel completely trapped too...but what you need to keep in mind is that your message is getting lost and you are burning people in the process whom would otherwise go out of their way to help you.

I would have thought after months something could be resolved to get you going and I am surprised a temporary solution couldn't have been ironed out while the claim is in the works. I haven't purchased anything from a Wind of Change but I do know they have an excellent reputation-so for things to boil to this level is in my opinion quite peculiar.

I do hope you get satisfactory resolution-being trapped or feeling like you are getting inadequate service is sometimes combination of both reality and perception.

Jeff

To erratic winds

mikeskor - 2-4-2014 at 09:17 AM

As Caritb has pointed out: "the bottom line is you are still entitled to a full and immediate refund as you haven't received what you paid for. the problem is between awoc and the postal carrier. waiting for 6 months is being more then reasonable"

erratic winds - 2-4-2014 at 10:07 AM

Quote: Originally posted by mikeskor

As Caritb has pointed out: "the bottom line is you are still entitled to a full and immediate refund as you haven't received what you paid for. the problem is between awoc and the postal carrier. waiting for 6 months is being more then reasonable"

carltb is in the UK and his laws may very well be different than what is applicable here in the USA

PHREERIDER - 2-4-2014 at 12:26 PM

not seeing the postal service chime in despite the actual problem it has caused.

if insurance was purchased everyone involved knew there were risks.

sounds like the INSURANCE WAS CRAP. the partial delivery/acceptance i think closes the door on the ins. claim, riffclown alluded to the "not my baby" at the hand off

cc/paypal, far better than any ins....no BS "i did not get it"---->chargeback over in a flash

unfortunate for avocation of fun

Kent is a solid dealer. and you want to turn your $ into fun. both are being stressed by the real culprit...

this is where Hercules SHOULD kill the messenger--->USPS and its underwriter the federal government and the bastard within the system who jacked your fun.

sorry for the troubles

A pertinent quote

mikeskor - 2-4-2014 at 12:37 PM

If you have wondered what might make a person go public after waiting for 6 months for either a blokart or refund, perhaps this quote in an email from Daelyn Kingston at AWOC might clarify. When i asked for a refund, she writes:"You are asking us to take a loss for a situation that had nothing to do with us." AWOC doesn't want to take the loss, so who is to take the loss if not the customer? In the light of private emails from AWOC, Kent's response appears false.

abkayak - 2-4-2014 at 01:01 PM

worst thread ever...
don’t know u mikeskor but i feel for you...gotta say Kent has been nothing but helpful and professional in my purchases and dealings w/ him…say what you will about me…but thats the truth

riffclown - 2-4-2014 at 01:16 PM

You obviously signed up for the sole purpose of venting your frustration..

AWOC has been a productive member here a while and when I had an issue with an order, it was corrected immediately. I've dealt with APO. It never fails, shortly after you do a refund, the rest of your shipment will show up.. Will you be sending back the stuff that did arrive or is Kent supposed to eat that as well?

A agree that other options may have been available but I'm personally thankful that vendors like AWOC will still ship to APO/FPO. Otherwise, my years overseas would have been miserable. Stories like yours are the ones that make vendors reconsider shipping into the great unknown for the benefit of the military service member.

Like I said, I had expensive computer upgrades circling Italian customs for SEVERAL months. They arrived well after I got the refund. When I contacted the vendor, they thanked me for letting them know and told me to keep the extras for all of the grief..This wasn't a cheap order either.

I've read where $900 Telescope Eyepieces arrived in country completely disassembled (read ruined) because customs wanted to make sure nothing was dangerous.. There was no recourse for that one.. NONE. Insurance wouldn't pay for damages caused by customs. Customs doesn't care...period..

You should take this back offline and be thankful that Kent is still willing to try and resolve..

I'm also not a cronie BUT both my 2M and4M Crossfires came from Kent. Thanks Kent!!

Clive - 2-4-2014 at 01:19 PM

I happen to be on the side of the complainant, ( who might just turn down the anguish a bit ... We've heard you loud and clear) 6 months is too long to wait, WOC has stated they are having issues with the postage people, and supposing that is true, their ( now very unhappy ) client has been left standing. Commercial businesses take some risk, it's part of life, if you want to run a successful buisiness, then happy clients are you best advertising, You've now got a very agitated and verbal one.
WOC have placed their (legal right ? )well ahead of their clients interests that's poor advertising.

Despite their perhaps legal right, I think WOC should offer to resolve the issue ASAP as a gesture of good will.

It's fine for other people to know the seller.... And he might be a great bloke, but it seems he's also a shrewd businessman. ( 6 months..... Really )

riffclown - 2-4-2014 at 01:28 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Clive

( 6 months..... Really )

When you factor in the APO/FPO portion of the US Postal Service, you get really wierd things happening like Last Year's Chrismas gifts arriving in September.. Birth announcements for an 18month old and on more than one occasion, having to tell the PSC volunteer that this package isn't mine but I'd reallly like to get the one over in the corner that has my name on it..

Clive - 2-4-2014 at 04:11 PM

I don't live over there, but 6 months is not acceptable to anyone. I'd be ticked off too. Pity it got this far.

Fortunately the one purchase I made from WOC was great, communication was good instant reply, package posted arrived in perfect condition. All in all I was very pleased, and I would assume that 99% of his customers would be in the same boat.

But you need good strategies to deal with problems when they do ( inevitably ) arise

That's it for me. Hope it all gets resolved soon.

Kamikuza - 2-4-2014 at 07:17 PM

Quote: Originally posted by mikeskor

After the required 75 days of waiting, I applied for insurance reimbursement from USPS.

Things still don't add up...

6 months? Don't you mean 6 weeks?

You applied to USPS for reimbursement but AWOC's is doing the leg work?

There's a process for getting refunds and your impatience isn't a factor.

Don't buy anything from me either please.

awindofchange - 2-4-2014 at 11:16 PM

I really don't want to get into semantics but feel some other things need to be brought out regarding this issue.

Both packages were shipped separately, both were fully insured. The first package arrived about 2 1/2 weeks after shipping. We felt that it would be good to wait a little longer to see if the second package would also show up. We assumed that it would arrive within the week, especially after the first package got there in great shape and time. When we were contacted and notified that the package still has not been received about 3 weeks later, we offered to start a trace and file a claim on the package that was not delivered. Mike demanded that HE be the one to do the claim and requested all the information, telling us that he would take care of this on his end. Because it appeared to be an APO issue, we thought he may be able to get further with it than us. We instantly send him all the information including the customs forms, shipping info and tracking information. After appx. two months (going onto almost 5 months now), his claim came back denied and when we inquired as to why with our post office, they informed us that the claim still needs to be issued by the shipper (us). We then immediately filed the claim on our end with USPS and to track where the package was/is at. About 1 week after filing the claim on our end, Mike demanded to have a full refund. As of this time, we still haven't even received information back from USPS saying if the package was or was not delivered or even received the tracking information report back. There still is the possibility that they may find the package somewhere and actually deliver it or return it back to us. If it is indeed lost and we get notification from USPS saying so, we will immediately move to either replace it with another or issue the refund - whatever Mike would like us to do. Unfortunately until we hear back one way or another, we don't know which direction we need to proceed to take care of this. I realize that it has just barely dipped into the 6th month after the order was placed, but it has only been 2 weeks since the claim has been filed on our end. I realize that this doesn't make it any easier or resolve the problem, but it is what it is.

We have stated all along that once we figure out what has happened with the shipment, we would stand good for it one way or another. We are still prepared to do so. In hind sight, I feel that if we would have filed the claim ourselves when the package first came up missing, we probably wouldn't be in this situation.

Once again I want to stress that I fully understand the frustration that has been caused by this. I too am very frustrated with the post office and the situation as a whole. We ship many items via USPS and in the last 12 years of business, have only had 4 shipments that have had issues. We have also shipped many items to APO addresses without any issues at all. This is the first. I will be very relieved once we hear back from the post office and can finally move forward to resolving this issue.

I don't blame you at all Mike for your anger and again, I am very sorry for all of this. It was never our intent to cause these issues. There is nothing I would like more than for you to have your Blokart and be able to use it. I assure you that once we get some kind of confirmation from USPS, we will make this right. I also understand that these are just words to you. If I was in your shoes I would probably feel the same. All I can do is assure you that I mean what I say and will do everything in my power to take care of this as quickly as possible for both of us.

-Kent

carltb - 3-4-2014 at 03:16 AM

you cant get any fairer then that

A legal opinion

mikeskor - 3-4-2014 at 03:42 AM

Thank you, Kent. I contacted a consumer affairs lawyer In the US concerning this issue.
This is what I wrote:

"I bought an item from an online seller in the USA for nearly $2000. The item was sent via parcel post to my Armed Forced Post office. The item never arrived and it has been 6 months. Although the item had USPS insurance, the postal service denied my claim for compensation. Can I claim a refund from the American seller of this item?"

This is what the lawyer wrote back:

"you indeed may demand a refund.
You may also pursue a civil lawsuit.
Local counsel can also pursue on commission.
That way you don't have a downside.
Would you like a lookup directory which you can quickly use to find a local lawyer to handle your case?"

jimbocz - 3-4-2014 at 03:59 AM

I also MAY pursue a civil lawsuit. Anyone can pursue any civil lawsuit they want, doesn't mean you are right or the case has any merits. A shark lawyer will always tell you to file a lawsuit, that's how they get paid.

After reading all of this as in impartial observer, I'd buy a kite from Wind of change. They appear to be reasonable and doing their best to resolve the situation. The customer appears to be just angry and ready to say anything. Sounds to me like the person to be angry at is the courier, but nobody cares if you post a nasty message about them in a public forum, so the customer is attacking the only person he can.

cheezycheese - 3-4-2014 at 04:22 AM

This thread should be locked. It is nothing but poison. Should be handled in private.

acampbell - 3-4-2014 at 05:07 AM

I've reported this thread to PKF to see if they will pull it. You're right, it's toxic.

B-Roc - 3-4-2014 at 09:41 AM

Hopefully this thread will be locked down soon but I simply want to say I don't think its right for any reader of this thread to attack either the buyer or the seller for expressing their frustrations / side of the story / opinion on how things went down. Sure it could be toned down a bit but no one here is in their shoes. As Kent himself stated, if he were, he'd feel exactly the same. They've both expressed their side of the truth. They've both been screwed by the USPS. They'd both like to see it resolved. They are both unable to move or accelerate an organization like the USPS. Its a sucky situation.

If I lose a $1 I kick myself and try to find it. I don't care who you are... no one here can tell me that they wouldn't be pissed if they were out $2,000 and fighting with a vendor and the USPS/APO instead of out kiting (or blow carting) with your new toy (which undoubtedly you bought with great anticipation and after some deliberation). I'd be on fire after about 2 minutes. This must be draining for both to have worn on for so long and when you feel you have no resolution or end in site... you react. Rightly or wrongly and maybe not the way you would normally. This is not a indication or judgment of who you are but rather where you are. If you are a retailer, I can only imagine this is your nightmare scenario and the reason you wonder why you do what you do.

FWIW, I had a framed kite damaged in shipment once from a very reputable retailer. The USPS guy came to my door with the destroyed and punctured box and said, "I hope it wasn't fragile". It was destroyed. I took pictures and sent it to the store and then drove to the town USPS office, showed them what was done and tried to initiate a claim and they said the seller/shipper has to do that. So off it went to them and I know it took him about 2 months to get his money back. Too bad AWOC wasn't given the chance to address it earlier but that's water under the bridge now and simply one to grow on. If nothing else, perhaps that's the lesson to be learned for all in from this thread.

Just my $0.02 and worth exactly what you paid for it.

I wish you both the best of luck in sorting this out to a mutually agreeable end.

Baluk - 3-4-2014 at 12:03 PM

I think Kent's last post made everything make sense...

It has been 6 months ( I was surprised, and felt Kent was in the wrong at this point ) but the fact that Kent seemed to work fast and immediate on his end, after realizing that his action needed to be taken next, and that this entire topic has been created a mere 2 weeks after the claim at USPS has been put in by Kent (on time, as the purchaser initially said he would take control of that situation), it shows that the purchaser is probably acting inappropriately.

WELDNGOD - 3-4-2014 at 01:37 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Baluk

it shows that the purchaser is probably acting inappropriately.

Just a wee bit. Joining the PKF with the sole purpose of trashing a vendor is just wrong. BOO

3shot - 3-4-2014 at 02:13 PM

Quote: Originally posted by cheezycheese

This thread should be locked. It is nothing but poison. Should be handled in private.

Agreed!

riffclown - 3-4-2014 at 02:38 PM

You may have found your shipment.. It looks like it might have arrived back in February????

Published on Feb 2, 2014

A film made by Michael Skorulski set in Jubail, Saudi Arabia featuring a Blokart with 4-meter sail. More info about how to get a blokart from mikeskor@------------------
Filming was done with a GoPro Hero 2.

Published on Mar 15, 2014

A new spot for Blokarting in Jubail, Saudi Arabia. Wind was 12 to 13 knots. It was the first time one of the wheels lifted up when gybing. A Blokart wheelie. Totally unintentional but Fun!

Published on Mar 15, 2014

One of my favorite blokarting spots in Jubail, Saudi Arabia. Wind was 11 to 13.4 knots. At the end of a great session the blokart gets away from me. I hope you like Gypsy Kings. Filming was done with a GoPro Hero 2.

WELDNGOD - 3-4-2014 at 02:44 PM

:o:o:o

BigMikesKites - 3-4-2014 at 02:53 PM

Good job riffclown

RedSky - 3-4-2014 at 03:13 PM

Is this for real? I'm laughing at the sheer audacity of this guy, but for WOC it ain't no joke. If true then this is well out of order!

mikeskor - Michael Skorulski

Imagine if WOC did the refund thing!!

WELDNGOD - 3-4-2014 at 03:15 PM

Don't mess with the PKF !

3shot - 3-4-2014 at 03:38 PM

Holy cow!!!!! Good catch riffclown!!!!

Maybe its his second blokart that was lost? :rolleyes:

I am at an utter loss for words at this moment!!!! :no:

If there is a fraud suit or personal lawsuit coming, it wont be from mikeskor.....

carltb - 3-4-2014 at 03:55 PM

some people eh??

zalex820 - 3-4-2014 at 03:59 PM

Wait A second! Do you wan't to tell me that this guy (the buyer) Made a fake claim after he got the items? And he just got busted on here using something "he never got"?

WELDNGOD - 3-4-2014 at 04:07 PM

It would appear so....

zalex820 - 3-4-2014 at 04:09 PM

Wow I don't wanna jump to conclusions but if that's that case this guy is a piece of (blank) that ruins trust and business relationships for the rest of us.

riffclown - 3-4-2014 at 04:11 PM

Let's see if the videos suddenly disappear..

Here's a pic or two just in case...

<--- LOOKS NEW ???

macboy - 3-4-2014 at 04:11 PM

Wow....I was about to bail on this thinking I know AWOC better than this guy does and he's just cheesed to the gills right now. Am I ever glad I read through! How the plot thickens!

B-Roc - 3-4-2014 at 04:25 PM

If anyone has the ability to copy the videos that may be a good thing or screen shot the landing page with the posters name, etc.

WELDNGOD - 3-4-2014 at 04:55 PM

Done did that ! :thumbup:

I love Audials tunebite.... :cool:

I got all 3 on my hard drive in all their shameful glory. :lol:

zalex820 - 3-4-2014 at 04:58 PM

The sad part is that this is not a young guy. He's over 60 years old and has the audacity to pull a stunt like that? That is not a man! He is a crook and a piece of junk. I would tell him what I thought of him if I crossed paths with him. Sorry but this got me unbelievably passed off. I hate what the world has come to.

WELDNGOD - 3-4-2014 at 05:06 PM

Does this man look like a crook???

vlcsnap-2014-04-03-20h02m00s127.jpg - 32kB

riffclown - 3-4-2014 at 05:12 PM

Just a link back to the suspicious videos on the second page..

http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=28188&p...

zalex820 - 3-4-2014 at 05:14 PM

If the he did what I think he did then yes! I had people rip me off for lots of money and due to that I trust a lot less these days. It's unfortunate that it has to come to that. It's pathetic to do that. People need to go out get a job and be honest. Maybe make this world a better place.

pyro22487 - 3-4-2014 at 05:46 PM

Oh so glad I read to the end. Best ending ever!!! I mean wow I wonder if it is coincidence but I seriously don't think so. Good catch Riff if anything maybe kent owes you something now.

B-Roc - 3-4-2014 at 06:39 PM

Quote: Originally posted by cheezycheese

This thread should be locked. It is nothing but poison. Should be handled in private.

While I agreed earlier, I think this really needs to play out to the end until one of the parties confirms what is really going on here. :o

3shot - 3-4-2014 at 06:55 PM

Yes. The new "twist" is rather interesting.

Demoknight - 3-4-2014 at 07:20 PM

My mind was just blown... what an incredible find!

skimtwashington - 3-4-2014 at 07:32 PM

I think this should have stayed private....

riffclown - 3-4-2014 at 07:57 PM

Let's keep in mind that there are other possible explanations..

abkayak - 3-4-2014 at 08:10 PM

Wait....wtf is going on? Is April fool type stuff?

A simple explanation (not that you deserve it)

mikeskor - 3-4-2014 at 08:12 PM

I had a sail and mast from Kent but no Blokart. I bought one in Dubai. So I think there may be grounds to file a slander suit against people on this site. You are the venomous ones not a person who is trying to get a refund.

I want a refund for the $1973 blokart that never arrived from Kent.

To Kent:

All that you write sounds reasonable and it makes good PR for your supporters. But it is shrewd stalling tactic and you still don’t want to take what you think may be a loss. You are making a refund contingent on your dealings with USPS and getting money back from them in an insurance claim. As Caritb mentioned in his post, in the US as in the UK, under consumer law I am entitled to a full and immediate refund NOW! It has been 6 months. I have consulted a lawyer concerning this as well as my bank which tells me that VISA can start claiming back funds 30 days after non-delivery of a shipment. I repeat, it has been 6 months.

thanson2001ok - 3-4-2014 at 08:22 PM

Quote: Originally posted by mikeskor

So I think there may be grounds to file a slander suit against people on this site.

^^^

^^^

Sorry, I couldn't help but weigh in. This kind of participation in the community that we value so much should not be tolerated.

Close the thread, ban mikeskor. What a joke.

RedSky - 3-4-2014 at 08:31 PM

Show us a legit receipt for the blokart you bought in Dubai.

No

mikeskor - 3-4-2014 at 08:38 PM

You do not deserve or merit any explanation. You are a mob with a mob mentality.

abkayak - 3-4-2014 at 08:42 PM

Ok...cracking another beer and staying up w/this
U come ring our doorbell and wonder why we ask who is it?
Stupidass

John Holgate - 3-4-2014 at 08:44 PM

OK, I'm officially voting NO for the refund. When you sign up to go on a forum for the sole purpose of hitting out at a retailer without disclosing ALL the facts or being reasonable about it, you deserve every bit of crap the forum community sends your way. You reap what you sow.

macboy - 3-4-2014 at 08:57 PM

Yup. I hope the Blokart surfaces and reaches it's final destination. Sounds like he's setting up a retail outlet anyway: "Want to know how to buy one of these? Email me".

Congrats, you now have 'inventory'. See if anyone tries to back out of a deal when something you have no control over happens. What goes around comes around.

pyro22487 - 3-4-2014 at 08:57 PM

Not sure on pricing but you received a mast and a sail but no blokart and want a full refund? Isn't the mast and sail included in the price of 1973$? If so you are asking to get something for nothing. Also you bought another kart before you got the first one straightened out? Sounds kinda fishy to me.

Also kinda sounding suit happy to me just saying...

P.s.

Why would you get one from USA and go through all the trouble if you could get one in Dubia?

Kamikuza - 3-4-2014 at 09:14 PM

Quote: Originally posted by mikeskor

I had a sail and mast from Kent but no Blokart. I bought one in Dubai. So I think there may be grounds to file a slander suit against people on this site. You are the venomous ones not a person who is trying to get a refund.

I want a refund for the $1973 blokart that never arrived from Kent.

To Kent:

All that you write sounds reasonable and it makes good PR for your supporters. But it is shrewd stalling tactic and you still don’t want to take what you think may be a loss. You are making a refund contingent on your dealings with USPS and getting money back from them in an insurance claim. As Caritb mentioned in his post, in the US as in the UK, under consumer law I am entitled to a full and immediate refund NOW! It has been 6 months. I have consulted a lawyer concerning this as well as my bank which tells me that VISA can start claiming back funds 30 days after non-delivery of a shipment. I repeat, it has been 6 months.

Why didn't you just buy the thing in Dubai in the first place? :puzzled:

Of the 6 months you're crying about, it seems that 3 weeks was shipping, and 5 months of it was wasted on YOUR END.

So you hoped that coming on a site where the vendor has a strong presence and customer base, accusing them of trying to rip you off was going to... what, exactly?

Shame them into coughing up a refund out of their own pockets rather than through the channels that you agreed on when you paid for the product?

Whip the crowd up into a frenzy of indignation and through force of numbers, shame the vendor into coughing up?

... kinda sucks when the mob doesn't come around to your mentality, huh.

To WELDNGOD and RIFFCLOWN

mikeskor - 4-4-2014 at 04:02 AM

You know my name and where I live. Are either of you man enough to tell me your name and where you live?

zalex820 - 4-4-2014 at 04:21 AM

Lemme guess Mike your going to pursue legal compensation? Are you a man or a child? You are acting very immature for someone your age. You should be ashamed of yourself!

WELDNGOD - 4-4-2014 at 05:16 AM

good luck with that dude LOL Come on down to Va Beach and find me .... Please

Kamikuza - 4-4-2014 at 05:25 AM

I don't think anyone here is ungentlemanly enough to thump a pensioner.

WELDNGOD - 4-4-2014 at 06:41 AM

Not at all. We will leave that to the blue hair brigade.

snowspider - 4-4-2014 at 07:23 AM

Two different tires on two different steering "forks". What a/an (insert expletive deleted here)!

riffclown - 4-4-2014 at 08:25 AM

Let's see how this goes. look very carefully at my posts. At the beginning of the thread, I attempted to get you to understand the US Postal system's relationship with the APO/FPO system. As for your Youtube Page, I've leveled no accusations towards you. I've merely reprinted your own words and descriptions to bring possibly relevant information to a conversation YOU started. I even had the common courtesy to mask your email so as not to subject you to additional SPAM email. Looks closely, I even advised you (along with many others) to take this back offline and resume your dealings with Kent alone.

The only statement I made was,
"You obviously signed up for the sole purpose of venting your frustration.."

which was confirming your point before in the thread where you stated,

"I have gone public as a way to make you realize I am serious about wanting the refund. All these things, you say you are doing on my behalf have come about recently since I said I would go public."

Let's look at a bit of information

Generally speaking:

Defamation is the issuance of a false statement about another person, which causes that person to suffer harm. I've made no statements about you. Merely asked a few speculative questions based on your public information that you posted here and elsewhere.

Slander involves the making of defamatory statements by a transitory (non-fixed) representation, usually an oral (spoken) representation. does not apply here

Libel involves the making of defamatory statements in a fixed or medium, such as a magazine or newspaper. I've made no such statements and there are other factors to consider before you head down this road.

In 1964, the U.S. Supreme Court decided a case entitled New York Times v Sullivan, and applied the First Amendment to hold that where a public figure attempts to bring an action for defamation, the public figure must prove an additional element: That the statement was made with "actual malice". "Actual malice" means that the person making the statement knew the statement to be false, or issued the statement with reckless disregard as to its truth. I only asked questions. I made no statements towards you (false or otherwise), I merely reprinted your words and asked a few questions. You've answered those questions. Whether I believe you or not is irrelevant. I'll make no statement as to my opinion. No malice here..

It is not necessary to be a celebrity or political leader in order to be deemed a "public figure".

Limited Public Figure - A person may become a "limited public figure" by engaging in actions which generate publicity within a narrow area of interest Like say a Kiting forum?. Example: A woman named Terry Rakolta was offended by the Fox Television show, Married With Children, and wrote letters to the show's advertisers to try to get them to stop their support for the show. Her actions attracted media attention, and as a result Ms. Rakolta became the target of jokes in a wide variety of settings. As these jokes remained within the confines of her public conduct, typically ridiculing her as prudish or censorious, the jokesters were protected by Ms. Rakolta's status as a "limited public figure". I'd say your publicity has increased a lot as a result of your actions here.. Nice videos though.

Source information. http://www.attorneys-usa.com/intentional/defamation.html

It might be in your best interest to go back and look at your own statements before calling people out. IMO Kent may have some recourse but that's not my call. I took a good capture of all of the posts to this point so editing your post and changing your words at this point may not help..

You actually gained a bit of credibility with the community by not pulling your youtube videos but you really need to rethink your position here based on the motives you yourself stated..

I still suggest you take this back offline and deal with Kent.

Personally, I feel there's nothing productive to explore from this point.. I'm done with this thread.

carltb - 4-4-2014 at 08:32 AM

acampbell - 4-4-2014 at 09:38 AM

This thread is getting good. Almost as good with plot twists as "Breaking Bad". Honey, get another bag of popcorn!

indigo_wolf - 4-4-2014 at 09:41 AM

Quote: Originally posted by acampbell

This thread is getting good. Almost as good with plot twists as "Breaking Bad". Honey, get another bag of popcorn!

Wait for it.... wait for it....

ATB,
Sam

pkf - 4-4-2014 at 12:32 PM

As PKF does not allow commercial posting, it's only right that we also curtail customer complaint issues once they have been addressed and exhausted. Now that this thread has turned into a flame, it's time to close it. This matter should be handled between the customer and the vendor in private. This topic is now closed.