Power Kite Forum

Ghost Frame Help

riffclown - 23-7-2014 at 05:31 PM

Looking to make a ghost frame for my stack. Added 3 more kites this weekend and the full stack of 9 is stressing the front kite terribly.. Chris from HQ says a phantom or ghost frame is the solution.. Looking to make this item out of Aluminum or Carbon Fiber..

Am I starting with a viable shape or do I need to go back to design? Weight, strength and stiffness are all factors here..

I don't think a simple triangle like on the Dynakites would work for me due to the Bridle attachment points being a bit more complex on the Bolero.

GhostFrame1.jpg - 24kB

ssayre - 23-7-2014 at 06:51 PM

I don't know riff, but looks like a cool project. I've never stacked, but is the load transferred down all the connecting lines to the lead kites bridle? Does that cause the front kites spars to buckle inward or towards the center of the kite? Just curious.

riffclown - 23-7-2014 at 07:21 PM

My understanding is it literally distorts the frame of the front kite as the full pull of the stack places all of the stress on those bridle points. As I watched a few other experienced kiters flying my stack I could see the distortion of the front kite. It's literally caught in the middle of a tug of war.

flyguy0101 - 24-7-2014 at 06:05 AM

riff- cant help you with design but i just picked up some carbon fiber rods from goodwinds.com- GREAT prices in the clearance section- ie i picked up .21" X 29.5" for $1.99- it was $6 if i wanted 30". Good luck

B-Roc - 24-7-2014 at 10:34 AM

I'm sure someone at http://www.gwtwforum.com/ could offer you sound advice. Try posting there

indigo_wolf - 24-7-2014 at 07:52 PM

Quote: Originally posted by riffclown  
Looking to make this item out of Aluminum or Carbon Fiber..


Go for pultruded or wrapped carbon rods.

Quote: Originally posted by riffclown  

Am I starting with a viable shape or do I need to go back to design? Weight, strength and stiffness are all factors here..

I don't think a simple triangle like on the Dynakites would work for me due to the Bridle attachment points being a bit more complex on the Bolero.


I think the number or spars and hence connectors will make this this a fair noodly design. Trying to figure out how the stresses will work in your frame and my gut reaction is that you are going to see enough flexing along the diagonal axis where it might be problematic.

If you can wait till the weekend, I can try to sketch out a Ghost Frame with appropriate connectors and locking hardware. Have fair amount of phone tag to play tomorrow.

ATB,
Sam

indigo_wolf - 28-7-2014 at 08:41 PM

Riff, could you PM me an email address?

I have a PDF for you.

Sorry for the delay.... life :(

ATB,
Sam

riffclown - 29-7-2014 at 03:24 AM

U2U sent..

Thank You!!

3shot - 29-7-2014 at 03:58 AM

Sam, you are awesome!!

riffclown - 29-7-2014 at 06:02 PM

Thank you very much for the design.. looks quite doable..

indigo_wolf - 29-7-2014 at 07:28 PM

Quote: Originally posted by riffclown  
Thank you very much for the design.. looks quite doable..


No problem....

ATB,
Sam

riffclown - 5-10-2014 at 06:50 AM

So I did end up making a few tough choices.. Instead of the ghost frame, I decided to reinforce the front kite frame with Carbon Fiber Protruded Tubing (AKA Arrow Shaffts) and doubled the leading edges with 3wrap Revolution spars. I then locked in the bridle. The original bridle is design allows slipping for stunts. Unfortunately, this feature for stunt flying doesn't translate well when the force is multiplied 9-fold. I locked in the bridles by adding an overhand knot right at the junction point..

This stack is a blast to fly and pulls like a truck..