Power Kite Forum

I WANA KITE!

iwanakite - 20-1-2015 at 11:34 PM

Okay, so something similar has likely been posted at some point, but I'm going to ask for advice on it anyway.

I'm a skier. I live on a nice big, frozen, snowy lake. I would love to go out and cruise with something fast. I'm not much for tricks, but the ability to get some nice hops would be an added bonus.

I was looking at the ozone access 6m or 8m at first. But the more I look around the less sure I am. A Frenzy 7m or 9m would probably be much better going for a rip. I'm looking for suggestions and advice. (But none of that start slow buisness, i go hard). What kind of speed can you get out of an access? Would there be an alternative to consider besides the Frenzy? The more affordable the better, I don't want to spend much more than 1000$. THANKS!

P.S. I'm 190 lbs if that makes much difference

erratic winds - 21-1-2015 at 12:18 AM

Where are you? We want you to take a lesson...or a bunch of them. Teaching yourself is a painful experience only recommended for very young and dumb people (like I was!). Not taking lessons is a good way to get kiting banned wherever your corpse ends up. I am not trying to be rough/rude, it's just that possibility for serious injury is much higher in this sport than new people assume it would be. It's also the most fun I ever had, so the scales seem pretty even. :)

iwanakite - 21-1-2015 at 12:36 AM

Fair enough response (which is why I included the brackets in my original post... jez). A lesson is simply not possible, I live in rural Canada. I have basic understanding of flight dynamics/wind/dangerous conditions from piloting experience. I have also been researching kites. Kiting would never be banned any more than hang gliding would be... more regulated though I suppose. Anyway, nothing you can do to stop me :lol:

But seriously guys. I want something fast and not a lot of lift. Preferably something that is depowering. Re-ride safety would be nice too.

Feyd - 21-1-2015 at 04:22 AM

Fast on skis is as dependent on your skiing ability, the wind conditions and surface conditions as much as the kite. Race kites for example are fast but the fastest snow kiters have all managed their top speeds on generally low AR, low lift touring style kites.

The 2015 Ozone Access fits all the criteria you outlined. For speed focused flying the 4 or 6m would be the best option. Although in your weight range the 8m has some substantial high wind usability with added versatility in less than nuking winds.

It is also a kite that is less likely to kill you and simply maim in the event your lack of expirience and training cause you to do something dumb like put the kite in the wrong place at the wrong time. ;)

My only request as you begin this quest for speed on a kite is that you be sure to do it where you won't hurt anyone but yourself, let your next of kin know where to recover what's left, and keep the publicity to a minimum so as not to show snowkiting in a bad light. There's enough of that out there.

Good luck buddy.




BigMikesKites - 21-1-2015 at 04:41 AM

I've got ONE last 9m Peter Lynn Lynx in last years colors for less than $800. NEW complete. Shipping to Canada runs about $65 as I just sent one up that way two weeks ago.

hiaguy - 21-1-2015 at 05:02 AM

So... Let us know where in the "ruralness" you are. There's bound to be someone that'll be willing to get a kite into your hands to learn with. (Feel free to read every other post that says "start with a 3 meter")

soliver - 21-1-2015 at 05:47 AM

Be cautious as well and recognize that often speed is brought with higher Apect Ratio (AR) and higher AR can often also mean more lifting potential, which in the hands of someone new to the sport can be a dangerous combination. If you are intent on starting with Depower, which some people do, then I would say Ozone Access or HQ Apex. I'm not into depower but I hear all good about these 2. They will also be easier to manage as s starter.

Aside from that Feyd is right, especially with inland winds, you will do MUCH. Better with a lower AR style kite (even speed wise) because as the wind becomes more unstable, your kite must be more stable to compensate.

Good luck

abkayak - 21-1-2015 at 06:31 AM

buy a 3m kite...learn how to handle it till you dont even have to think about it anymore
you know, like the way you can ski...be a pilot
add skis and some frozen ground (any type)
and Walla!....your still posting and well on your way to where you wanna be:thumbup:

ssayre - 21-1-2015 at 06:53 AM

I completely agree with abkayak. Unless you have someone to help you with depower and show you the ropes, you'll end up frustrated or worse and give up before you start. I'm self taught and forum taught, but I started small and worked my way up. You'll have the additional challenge of kite management on ice that you will need to master as well.

UnknownAX - 21-1-2015 at 07:33 AM

If at all possible, try to get lessons or find someone who will show you how it works & let you try it out. After that you can continue practicing with your own kite, which could be a 6-10m low-AR depower for example. (impossible to recommend a size without knowing the wind conditions)

And about speed: Race kites go upwind faster than most other kites and they build a lot of "apparent wind". While they are fast, speed records are usually set with lower AR kites. The fastest kites tend to be lowish-AR with a deep profile and flat shape.
But you really don't need to worry about this, any kite will get you going plenty fast and there are many other factors which have a much greater impact on your speed than the kite you use. I used to ride an Access and my PB with it was 72.something km/h and I am sure many others have gone a lot faster with it!

soliver - 21-1-2015 at 08:15 AM

Hey, I know you wanna "go hard" but i can tell you from personal experience that even with experience, "going hard" is very difficult with broken limbs. I genuinely appreciate a go-get-'em attitude but in all seriousness, this stuff can get you hurt badly (or even dead) faster than you can say "GO HARD"...

I thought I could start with a big kite because I had some limited similar experience,... big mistake,... I nearly dislocated my knee cap... again

Fast forward 3 years to now when I've been trying to "go hard" in an attempt to beat my previous top speed and got myself lofted 10-15 feet in the air and subsequently broke my heel. Right now I'm 4 weeks passed from surgery and still 4 weeks out from being able to walk.

So please take the advice here seriously. Theres SO much more to be said for training yourself to FLY the kite rather than jumping in full boar and only learning to react and survive.

Its hard to "go hard" when you can't even go.

pongnut - 21-1-2015 at 09:19 AM

Most of us here genuinely want you to enjoy this sport and don't want to see you go out, spend $1000 on a kite and harness, just to get frustrated after a couple of tries, and then sell off your stuff for some other adventure. I bet there are quite a few Canadian kiters on the forum here who would be more than happy to meet up for a couple of hours of intro to depower kiting. A couple of hours of depower fundamentals and tips from them is worth at least a couple of months of learning on your own.

Nothing wrong with Ozones, but from what I've been reading on the forums, one of those Flysurfer Peaks would be a great first depower and provide as much speed as anything else...

markite - 21-1-2015 at 10:06 AM

A lot of good advice from everyone and like Howard I'm curious where you are - i think you'd be surprised by how many kiters there are around even though you may not see one. Even though there are hundreds that get out winter kite skiing and snowboarding in southern ontario (and many throughout Canada) I still have people come up all the time to say it's the first time they've seen it.
There is a good chance we could recommend a contact or place to get out and see what's going on. If you are in southern Ontario you are are always welcome to come out and join in and most of us are willing to show you quite a bit with different kites and equipment and I always lend out kites for people to try different things before buying.
There are many very good used kites around through locals and also options for new and even still some of last years new around locally and you can get good deals and also save on the 20% hit on US exchange right now.
It would be really good to see something fist because if you are like most inland lakes with vey gusty high winter winds and increased boost with cold dense air it's going to be a lot different than advice based on steady winds.

BEC - 21-1-2015 at 10:37 AM

...Abkayak is correct....You have to learn to walk before you can run....You didn't go to the top of the mountain for your first ski run.....you eventually got better and better till you were able to do it without being worried or putting yourself/others at risk.

A good 3m kite would be perfect for learning...Bigger for de-power (you'll need to ask those experienced in them). I only fly fixed bridles. Been going on the lake for years and even with a 3m it gets a little scary sometimes. You can be smiling one second and the next be airborne at a point where "stuff" is breaking.

You'll have a blast...Read all the comments and make the best decision....ask questions...we are all here for you...Most import..WEAR A HELMET very minimum (elbow protectors are not a bad idea when starting off). Pointy elbows and hard ice don't mix...

Bladerunner - 21-1-2015 at 05:10 PM

If you notice we all have more than one kite. There is a VERY GOOD reason for that. You will find you need a low wind kite, average wind kite and a high wind kite. If you only have say a 9m kite you can be sure it will not be very windy and it won't be enough. OR you will be tempted to take it out in too much wind and that is potentially the BIGGEST possible mistake! Always choose your kite by the speed of the wind gust NOT the average wind speed! Wind speed typically changes as you move about the lake. Often stronger in the middle.

You can't do this sport on a budget! That said, if money is tight you are much better off shopping used. Get a quality used 6 or 7m kite knowing you will NEED a second ( or typically 3rd ) kite. You can really work a smaller kite and create apparent wind because they are light + turn so fast. Learning how to create power from a smaller faster kite will make you a much better pilot than protecting yourself from a larger / slower one. If you want to go fast then you want to eventually be riding in strong winds. A 6 - 7m will work for that. A 9m won't!!! You should be able to find something that size in good shape between $ 4-600? That will leave you with lots towards a second kite. If you find that you often have light winds you can buy a large second kite and have a gap between your kites range. If you find it is usually windy but you want more power +lift a 9 - 11 would compliment a 6-7.

One of our crew is a pilot. He is definitely NOT the best kite pilot around here. Young people seem to be the ones who take to this sport naturally. Don't count on your pilot experience being a big boost in kiting.

I know it goes against your thinking but believe me when I tell you, you will progress MUCH faster if you start with a 6 or 7m kite. You will want a less lifty lower aspect kite like an Access or Apex for those higher winds and faster speeds. Once you have mastered it then you can go more lifty like the Frenzy for your larger ( better to jump with a larger kite ) second kite.

Winter lake winds can be gusty. The Flysurfer Peak is going at a real good price second hand these days. It is a very different, single skin kite and handles gusty winds very well. You should search the reviews on the kite on this forum. Talk to Feyd direct if you have questions about the kite. He is a great guy who has been using them in his school etc. and has tons of 1st hand knowledge about the kite.

Wear your hockey helmet EH ! :bigok:

soliver - 21-1-2015 at 06:40 PM

+1 on the Flysurfer Peak.. the 6m Peak 1's (used) fit well within your $1000 budget, and they are all the rave about how well they suit beginners.

iwanakite - 21-1-2015 at 08:07 PM

Thanks for the advice everyone especially Feyd, Soliver, and Bladerunner (but no thanks to you naysayers!). For those asking for my location it’s a dingy little town called Sioux Lookout, Ontario. Thanks for the invite Markite, but I’d be driving for 2 days to get there. Winds very greatly here, one day it may be 3 knots the next it will be 15. I intend to get a kite large enough to learn the ropes on calm days so it will still be fun on windier days when I’ve got the basics down. Then I’ll fly it in 40 knots gusting 50 (kidding… settle down). Sounds like no one has anything bad to say about the Access. I checked out those Peaks, they look like they’re just as good of an all-around kite :thumbup:

erratic winds - 21-1-2015 at 09:54 PM

Quote: Originally posted by iwanakite  
(but no thanks to you naysayers!)


If you're not on a first name basis with your local emergency room, I'm guessing you soon will be.

iwanakite - 21-1-2015 at 10:11 PM

@ erratic winds

Don't be so negative. Have a little faith that people aren't completely hopeless on their own. If someone didn't learn how to kite by themselves it wouldn't exist. You're just straight to the fatalities and serious injury. You won't need me to give kiting a bad name if you keep talking about it like that.

erratic winds - 21-1-2015 at 10:59 PM

I'd have a little faith in you if you weren't proud of ignoring the advice you've been given, as it stands, I feel entirely comfortable with my comments.

I'm so terribly sorry that my speaking truthfully about what can happen in this sport seems to give you confidence that you're somehow better/smarter/tougher than all the people who have been injured while teaching themselves.

Best of luck to you.

iwanakite - 21-1-2015 at 11:30 PM

I didn't say any of that, but calling me young/dumb and talking about my corpse like I was already dead (even if you did it halfway nicely) wasn't really a good start. Anyway, thankee kindly for the luck.

skimtwashington - 22-1-2015 at 02:48 AM

An observation:

Asking for advice requires listening to what's given . It's a false humility to ask for advice but then put up any caveat that you won't accept certain advice("But none of that start slow buisness, i go hard").

It wasn't just eratic winds..... but he seems to be singled out as 'naysayer' and negative........ when Feyd and Soliver mention 'kill and maim... and 'dumb' also', 'hurt and dead' respectively from each...

...yet they are thanked(especially)?

People here are trying to be helpful and respectful and it is being misinterpreted because of your hubris.

Cautioning someone as part of advice- who asked advice to begin with- is not being negative.
This sport is fun but can be dangerous. To not give caution in advice to someone WHO HAS NOT THE EXPERIENCE would be negligent.

When asking advice you can't pick and choose what you want to hear. Nor should one be take anything personal and be defensive. Well, you can I suppose...but why ask?

The logic of, "If someone didn't learn how to kite by themselves it wouldn't exist" bears no value on proper learning ...and certainly not on safety in learning.

soliver - 22-1-2015 at 06:07 AM

Maybe you missed my comments above...

Quote: Originally posted by soliver  
Hey, I know you wanna "go hard" but i can tell you from personal experience that even with experience, "going hard" is very difficult with broken limbs. I genuinely appreciate a go-get-'em attitude but in all seriousness, this stuff can get you hurt badly (or even dead) faster than you can say "GO HARD"...

I thought I could start with a big kite because I had some limited similar experience,... big mistake,... I nearly dislocated my knee cap... again

Fast forward 3 years to now when I've been trying to "go hard" in an attempt to beat my previous top speed and got myself lofted 10-15 feet in the air and subsequently broke my heel. Right now I'm 4 weeks passed from surgery and still 4 weeks out from being able to walk.

So please take the advice here seriously. Theres SO much more to be said for training yourself to FLY the kite rather than jumping in full boar and only learning to react and survive.

Its hard to "go hard" when you can't even go.


Here's the latest update on my recovery if you want to take the time to look it over.
http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=29625
Here's a related thread partially on my injury and partially my thoughts on safety
http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=29612

Understand:
By no means are we trying to dissuade you from the sport or tell you that you can't do anything on your own... We are simply trying to advise you toward your BEST POSSIBLE outcome. Not only because of the tremendous costs to you associated with the WORST possible outcome, but because of the VERY real possibility that it can seriously effect the rest of us who have already been enjoying this sport for a while.

There is nothing wrong at all with humility, and while you may be just having fun at some people's expense (primarily @erratic winds') you have to understand the reservations the we have toward the kind of attitude you are displaying.

It's not a matter of what we think you may be capable of; its a matter of the manner in which you are approaching it. There is a lot to learn here on this forum, so have the humility about it to accept the information gracefully.

As I said above, it's hard to "go hard" when you can't even go.

iwanakite - 22-1-2015 at 08:02 AM

@ skimtwashington
I thanked those people especially because they took the time to answer my question. To clarify, the question of what I am looking for, not necessarily what they think I should be looking for.

@ soliver
Ya, I saw your comments before, definitely a raw deal. And while I understand your reservations, I approached the situation in the manner I did to try and avoid kitemare stories and safety lectures. I have an understanding of what can happen, last thing I want is to be dashed against a rock or electrocuted on power lines. I've looked into the safety problems of kiting and have a general idea of how messy it can get. Hope you feel better soon!

abkayak - 22-1-2015 at 08:20 AM

no naysayers here...if your a man of your word you are gonna go out and do this no matter what any of us have to say
many of us are self taught and had to figure most of it out on our own...talking, watching or even better flying w/ someone more experienced helps move things along...everyone goes into this w/ some preconceived notion about the kites and flying...and if we all sat down the one thing we would agree on is we were wrong...you figure it out as you go when your alone and the first thing best to learn is live to fly another day...this is the greatest sport you can come across but at this point you dont know enough to give proper respect to just packing and unpacking the foil....lot to learn here please dont think your going out day 1 and doing figure 11's....
we are here to help and to a man wish and want the best for you........which imo..is safety first

did i mention buy a 3m fb?....it could do wonders and some day may take you to 50

Bladerunner - 22-1-2015 at 04:34 PM

The tried and true method of learning, especially on your own is to start out with a smaller kite. Trust me on this one.

If you start out with too big a kite you end up spending all your time just protecting yourself from the extreme power. You end up having to pack up on those 15kt days.

Speed = Power. You can really throw a 6 - 7 m kite around and make it fly fast so it creates more power ( in spurts ). 6 - 7m is in it's sweet spot around 15kts. You will feel MUCH more in control of a smaller kite and so will master your pilot skills a whole lot faster. You won't have to pack it up when the wind hits 15 so will get far more fly time in. As I suggested before, learning how to milk power from a smaller / faster kite will make you a far better pilot than learning how to handle overpowered situations 1st will. Don't underestimate the power you will get from a 6 - 7m . The Peak in particular delivers power very early in the 6m size. ( from what I hear )

You are already sort of skipping a step by not starting out with the standard 3m fixed bridle foil that is best for learning on your own. You will want depower for snowkiting so skipping the trainer won't be the biggest mistake you can make. Do yourself a BIG favour and don't go straight to a 9 or 10m kite to start. Get a 9 or 10 second and choose one around that size for more lift in lower winds and jumping.

A lot of the focus of this forum is about helping folks who are remote and alone find the fastest and safest way that we have collectively found. Don't get too put off by the by the strong safety attitude. Everybody means well and almost all of us have been injured at some point. The reality of this sport is, if you aren't falling, you aren't learning.

Now my safety suggestion. Pads are YOUR BEST FRIEND!!!!! Having them on gives me a bit more courage / comfort when pushing it. You are Canadian so I assume you have hockey pads. USE THEM !!!!! ( well... not the gloves ) What you are doing with the kite out there has a lot of similar ways to hurt you as hockey.

ssayre - 22-1-2015 at 05:31 PM

The Peak would be exceptional to learn on. Remember, power-wise it is suppose to compare to a 9-10 meter foil depower. The thing that makes it unique and much more forgiving compared to a foil is the wing deforms and flaps when depowered which takes away its speed and power very quickly when sheeted out. The low end probably compares to a 9-10m depower foil (not sure as I haven't used a depower foil). The peak 6m starts to produce enough power for traction on grass in a buggy around 12 mph but feels very comfortable with gusts above that. I assume a depower foil, while keeping its shape with bar sheeted out, will increase its speed and still generate a bit of power in a gust like my arc would.

By the way, the peak will take you up if you ask it to in decent wind. I haven't jumped that high or in the upper end of it's wind range, but it's definitely there.

iwanakite - 22-1-2015 at 05:41 PM

Oh you know I'm gunna do it abkayak. Sooooo, i found a hookup for some affordable kites. I might get 2 or 3... yes one being a smaller one. I'm thinking of starting at 5.5/6 and getting one or two larger ones. I don't think a 5.5 would pose much danger to myself whilst learning to fly it on my feet (NOT SAYING I'M GOING TO BE RECKLESS) just saying it won't be able to drag or lift me off my feet. Provided I stay away from extreme winds. Hopefully it won't be too small for windier days once I get the feel for kiting.

ssayre - 22-1-2015 at 05:53 PM

Are you talking about fixed bridle kites with handles in the 3-5 meter range? Just curious because a 5.5 meter fixed bridle kite will easily lift you in 14mph+. A depower kite will ultimately be much safer to use given your location and activity. A 3 meter fixed bridle would teach you the wind window and overall kite behavior and kite management.

Edit: I still like abkayaks advice of 3 meter fixed bridle kite to be acclimated to kite and conditions.

RedSky - 22-1-2015 at 06:21 PM

This guy is a troll.

erratic winds - 22-1-2015 at 06:25 PM

Quote: Originally posted by iwanakite  
I don't think a 5.5 would pose much danger to myself whilst learning to fly it on my feet just saying it won't be able to drag or lift me off my feet.


You are incorrect in this assumption, but because I'm saying it, you'll absolutely ignore me. Maybe you'll listen to someone else.

Chrisz - 22-1-2015 at 06:55 PM

I found the 5.5m HQ Apex a good kite to start with last year, I did get some professional instruction my first couple of times out.

The professional instruction I did receive made the learning curve a lot shorter, there are just some things you can't learn from the Internet. It is hard to critique yourself on what errors you are making when you have your hands full flying a kite.

I have also met others via the professional instruction. I try to get together with the group a couple times a year, it is a lot more fun to kite with a group then just going out alone.

And yes you can get lofted unexpectedly with a 5m kite, it hapened to me last month, just when I thought I had it all figured out...

Peter Lynn Lynx 11M

Steven - 22-1-2015 at 08:44 PM

I have a peter lynn lynx 11m complete With radical harness.
Bought from big mikes kites last year. Only flown it 3 times. No Tears or rips. Practically brand new

indigo_wolf - 22-1-2015 at 09:00 PM

Quote: Originally posted by erratic winds  
Quote: Originally posted by iwanakite  
I don't think a 5.5 would pose much danger to myself whilst learning to fly it on my feet just saying it won't be able to drag or lift me off my feet.


You are incorrect in this assumption, but because I'm saying it, you'll absolutely ignore me. Maybe you'll listen to someone else.


True enough....

Flexifoil Bullet 5.5M



Dustin Birch was flying a 6M Ace in 8 mph wind when he got lofted and broken his leg.



The two threads related to that incident are:


DHKite got lofted 30-40 feet in the air in ~18 mph (with 33 mph gusts) using flying a Hydra 3.5m kite and broke his ankle in 2 places.

Probably enough yellow flags on the track by now.... rapidly entering the "People are going to do what people are going to do" portion of our program.

ATB,
Sam

soliver - 23-1-2015 at 06:57 AM

Yes, 5.5m can hurt you,... worst injury I've heard of came from something in the 2m range.

abkayak - 23-1-2015 at 07:37 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Steven  
I have a peter lynn lynx 11m complete With radical harness.
Bought from big mikes kites last year. Only flown it 3 times. No Tears or rips. Practically brand new


this isn't helping......last attempt on my part, buy a 3m fb

BeamerBob - 23-1-2015 at 10:41 AM

That thought that a 5.5m can't drag or pick you up is scary coming from someone above the need to heed advice he asked for.

volock - 23-1-2015 at 11:11 AM

I'll admit to being self taught, and having started with a 3.6M Beamer II. That said, I was on the heavy side 240-250lbs, and generally was in 10-12mph winds with that. That same kite has pulled me on my stomach across a grass field in 20mph, and lofted me once when I didn't intend it to. That being said, I still think in the right wind, it's an excellent kite for starting out, learning the basics and wind window before progressing and flying something bigger/faster. It's not depower, but depower can complicate things when first starting out. That kite I have is 10 years old now, and still gets flown and hasn't needed any major repair. People who are new to the sport and want to try something out when I'm flying in light winds, always seem to love it. They see the size difference and think I'm not giving them something with pull, but no one complains after they dip it harder through the window then they mean to.

I know my flying has progressed lots from this forum, and even more when I've gotten to fly with others, who notice what I'm doing wrong when I might not. Lessons will definitely accelerate things and reduce your chance of injury. I myself have been extremely lucky and aside from a few bruises and a permanent string burn scar on a finger haven't been injured. I know that that's as much luck as anything else. The other day flying a 4.5M Little Devil, a rogue 35mph gust in 10-15mph wind, grabbed me and took me 10ft in the air and 20-30ft down field in a matter of a couple seconds. Had I not redirected it, or been on my mountain board and landed just right (and had that extra suspension) I'd have been seriously injured. Thankfully I wasn't. I've also been lofted in the snow 20+ ft and had a line snap. People are just trying to emphasize how many of us get injured, even with more experience than you, so you realize how dangerous starting out with a large and lifty kite can be.

Given you situation, and your insistance on something bigger and that can take you out on the snow/ice right away, I'd consider the Peter Lynn Xplore or the Ocean Rodeo React 2M trainer. Downside to the Xplore is it can't be swapped to FB handles and only flys on it's 3 line bar, but for what you want, it's not a bad idea. If you're willing to consider a FB trainer, get an HQ Beamer in 3M would be my advice, it'll stay fun to fly, hold it's value and become a high wind kite or one to let others learn on down the road. Whatever you get I wish you the best of luck, and feel free to post videos / ask lots of questions for help.

Just my 2 cents.

Bladerunner - 23-1-2015 at 04:04 PM

Quote: Originally posted by iwanakite  
Oh you know I'm gunna do it abkayak. Sooooo, i found a hookup for some affordable kites. I might get 2 or 3... yes one being a smaller one. I'm thinking of starting at 5.5/6 and getting one or two larger ones. I don't think a 5.5 would pose much danger to myself whilst learning to fly it on my feet (NOT SAYING I'M GOING TO BE RECKLESS) just saying it won't be able to drag or lift me off my feet. Provided I stay away from extreme winds. Hopefully it won't be too small for windier days once I get the feel for kiting.


Ozone doesn't make a 5.5m depower kite that I know about? 5.5 HQ Apex would be a good kite.

Do yourself a favour and tell us more about these kites that are a " affordable " BEFORE you spend good money on one. There are a lot of kites out there that are " affordable " because anybody who knows about kites won't buy them!

a 5.5m depower kite is a complete different animal than a 5.5m Fixed Bridle kite. You won't regret starting out on a 5.5m HQ Apex or similar kite. A 5.5m Ozone Yakuza or Flexifoil Bullet ( both fixed bridle ) would be a bad choice

Ignore the man with a single post trying to sell you an 11m kite. He does not have your best interest in mind. We have a good trader thread on this site to help you feel safe with a seller for a good reason.

Learning to fly static on snow or ice can be a lot more challenging than you seem to think. That or you don't fully appreciate the power and lift a 5.5m kite can deliver up when you don't know how to control it and " go hard ". I am not trying to discourage you, just to help you understand what you are dealing with / looking at. All to save you money, agro and maybe even an injury? ;) :bigok:

iwanakite - 23-1-2015 at 06:00 PM

I was looking at a 5.5 HQ Apex actually so that's the one! And it'll be awhile before I fly it in 10-12 mph Volock. I'll probably go out on a calm day to see what it can do, then dip my toes in 4-7 knots to see if I can handle it and move on from there.

Feyd - 23-1-2015 at 07:20 PM

5.5m Apex?

iwanakite - 23-1-2015 at 07:22 PM

Yup, 5.5m HQ Apex

BeamerBob - 23-1-2015 at 11:22 PM

The touchy thing about a depower kite that size is that it needs a certain amount of wind for it to fly well enough for you to get feedback on what your inputs to the bar are doing to the flight of the kite. There will be a just right amount of enough wind for it to fly responsively but not do the things to you that you don't think it will do. Get outside of this range and on the low end, you won't feel like there is any connection between your inputs and what the kite does. While exceeding your skill level with too much wind and you have 5.5m of angry power that is way faster than you thought it could be. But inside that range and you can learn and be safe.

I actually think the 7m size would be the better size to learn on in the right winds if you jump straight to depower. The Apex is a good choice for you, but I hope you can learn to respect it before it gets a chance to hurt you.

volock - 24-1-2015 at 01:05 AM

Quote: Originally posted by iwanakite  
I was looking at a 5.5 HQ Apex actually so that's the one! And it'll be awhile before I fly it in 10-12 mph Volock. I'll probably go out on a calm day to see what it can do, then dip my toes in 4-7 knots to see if I can handle it and move on from there.


That's definitely a smart plan. Starting on the lowest end possible for the kite and slowly increasing, is generally what I shoot for when I get a new kite. As you're going depower, the big things I'd emphasize making sure to learn are


  1. Safety Release on Chicken Loop
  2. Safety Release on Leash (if there is one)
  3. Where to connect the leash **See footnote
  4. How to Boost/Jump ***See footnote


**There's always at least two or more options for connecting the leash, and as someone I was recently showing how to setup his LEI, it can be confusing on some bars. He kept trying to hook it up like a suicide leash because of the options on that bar. Make sure you know the options and are clipping it to the right place.

*** I'm not suggesting you do either activity, but as the link from BeamerBob shows, bad things occasionally happen. My wife in sub-7-8mph winds ended up doing a front flip/somersault and straining her shoulder because of doing one of the redirects like one would do to pendulum jump, she was just trying to keep the kite up and a gust timed just wrong. Nothing bad happened, but she knows better than to redirect like that now.

The reason I mentioned the wind range I did, is from my experience, if inland, under 10mph wind can be flaky and intermittent at points. This leads to a lot of frustration among new kiters (and pisses off the rest of us by making us play "will it pick up"). At least here, sub 10mph winds rarely happen.

Bladerunner - 24-1-2015 at 09:37 AM

As Bob suggests the 5.5m isn't designed to fly in it's sweet spot until the winds are a good bit over 10kts.. All depower kites require a bit of wind to fly at all.

The 5.5 is a very good choice for down the road when you want to go out in real strong winds and chase the speed you are after. Unfortunately it won't produce power enough to give you a ride until the wind is up a bit. This may be a good thing if you are having to figure out things and static fly on ice or snow. It will make you very happy you own it on strong wind days but wishing you had more power on average + low wind days. I am not all that up on HQ's line and suspect this is an early Apex? ( what year? ) If it is, I have flown one on a dry lake with blades and found it a nice high wind kite.

What are the larger kites you are looking at ? what year and how much ?