Which Peak II: 9m or 12m (also, a comparison of the Peak I 9m and Peak II 12m)

Sooo... It's no secret that I've been switching to LEI's recently. That's mainly because I'm doing more water, but also because they handle really weird / gusty winds quite well. However, the one thing that LEI's are absolutely guaranteed to be horrible at is low, variable, turbulent winds. Enter the fantastic Peak series from Flysurfer.

So my new quiver plan is to have almost entirely LEI's except for one for super low wind that's turbulent and variable. I love my Peak 9m for such winds, but I want MOAR, so I have been eyeballing the 12m Peak 2 -- I finally had a chance to fly them back to back while trying to landboard on a tiny grassy field. The wind was about 3-6 mph, turbulent and variable. In other words, a good day for video games. Instead, I was able to do a "Peak-off" thanks to the generosity of FrontRangeJeff.

I've been flying the Peak I 9m for almost a year now, and I love the kite. Like any kite, there are pros & cons:

Peak I Pros



• minimalist design
  
• flies in no wind at all
  
• predictable
  
• forgiving
  
• insane amounts of depower
  
• super light bar & overall package
  
• setup & relaunch are a snap
  
• stability
  
• good looking
  
• relatively inexpensive
  

Peak I Cons



1. bar bight (still doesn't allow turning & depower very easily)
   
2. no trim / swivel
   
3. slow turning
   
4. flapping (I sort of like it now, to be honest)
   
5. not a ton of lift, even when powered
   
6. lots and lots of bridle
   
7. packing up is kind of annoying (but not that bad)
   

So I was pretty excited when the Peak 2 series came out because items A, B, C, (D?), E, and F were all to be improved upon. Awesome, Flysurfer! So the last thing to do before buying one is to try it out! It turns out, the Peak 2 ain't all shamrocks and leprechauns (Yeah, happy St. Patty's Day). Here are some of the differences I noticed -- again, remember this is in the absolute GARBAGE winds for which I am purchasing this kite.

Looks
Both kites color schema are great, but the profile of the kite in the air is significantly different. While watching Jeff fly the Peak II, I noticed that is significantly more curvy than the Peak I. The Peak I still looks like a flying-slab-o-kite, while the Peak II looks like a proper foil (from the side). From the flier's perspective, the Peak II just looks way higher AR than the Peak I, but still looks like a flying rectangle. In other words, the Peak II looks cooler from the non-pilot perspective, and the Peak I looks ridiculous regardless of your perspective .
Winner: Peak II

Turn Speed
The 12m Peak II turns as fast as the 9m Peak I. This is because of the higher AR and bigger tips. It also has more of a curve (and thus 'rudder') than the Peak I.
Winner: Peak II

Stability / Reliability
In my garbage winds, both Jeff and I noticed a really disturbing trend for the Peak II to fold its tips towards the center at inopportune times. I thought it was turbulence, but I think in light winds it just likes to fold up a bit. I've noticed the same when I'm underpowered on other flysurfers (most notably the bigger Speeds). A lot of times, I was leaning back on the lines to keep them taut and it folded up anyway. I was able to get it popped back out by tugging on the back lines, but it happened WAY more than I was expecting -- once it even surprised me so badly that I fell on my butt off my landboard (which I haven't done in ages). The Peak I didn't have this problem at all. I assume it's a function of the wider, higher AR kite along with less bridle and garbage winds. If you look at videos on youtube of the Peak2, you can see that just about everyone else has this problem at some point in the video, also. It's worth noting, and it's really really annoying because when it folds those tips, it literally just falls out of the sky. The Peak I is just more stable in low winds, which is where the Peak series is supposed to excel, so this tendency puts the Peak I ahead.
Winner:Peak I (note: I thought this might be much less probable on the 9m, but I saw people with 6m Peak II's having the same problem)

Power / Grunt
The Peak I has a decent amount of grunt, but it doesn't move very fast through the air due to flapping turbulence and low AR. The Peak II moves more quickly through the air, but still has a decent amount of flapping (more than I anticipated, to be honest). When flying close to the ground in garbage winds, the 12m was able to get me moving where the 9m was barely able to budge me at all -- even with looping. The Peak II is great at generating power in garbage winds when low to the ground, but once I got about 30 degrees or so (bottom line), it basically just died. It also doesn't keep its power through the loop as well as the 9m did, but that may be a size difference thing. Coming OUT of the loop, the Peak II really pulled hard -- even in almost no wind, but during the turn, I might as well have been flying a 2 line delta.
Winner: I think Peak II, but hard to tell with the size difference.


Depower
Not that I was depowering much, but they appear to be similar. The depower on these things is amazing.
Winner: Tie

Lift
Even in the horrible winds, I was able to generate a little lift from the 12m. The 9m is hard to catch any air on anyway, but it was dismally impossible this day. I was really surprised that the 12m could generate any lift at all, but it did. Also, I noticed that in the low winds, it doesn't generate a ton of lift near the top of the window, where you'd normally be jumping with a foil or LEI. Instead it was more suited to pendulum (static) jumps and other types of jumps where the kite remains pretty low in the window. Again, might not be an issue in real wind, but in real wind, I'll probably be on an LEI anyway, so it's worth noting.
Winner: Peak II

Bar
They fixed some little annoyances from the Peak I bar, but they also made it a LOT heavier. It's metal, I think, and the original Peak bar was Carbon. The radius on both bars is pretty skinny, but also fits nice in the hand. The main 3 upgrades are as follows:

• The power line hole that's now been milled out so you can turn & depower at the same time without rubbing on the power line as much.
  
• There's now a swivel so you can unspin the center lines by pulling down on the bar (this mechanism honestly doesn't last long with heavy riding, but it's nice while it works)
  
• There's a cam cleat trim that will most likely (if I've learned anything from the Peak I days and 1 day on the Peak II) always remain fully powered. I've spoken with Chris about adding leaders to the power lines and I am convinced that it's a good idea on either kite.
  

Anyway, both bars are awesome, but with those 3 upgrades, I gotta say I like the new bar better -- ask me again after hiking 3 miles at 11,000 ft and I might have a different answer.
Winner: Peak II

Apparent Wind / Upwind
Not that I was moving much, but they both seem to be about the same for apparent wind capabilities due to the flappiness. If you want to generate apparent winds like mad, go for the Speed series. The Peak is all about the grunt. Upwind performance was way better than I thought it would be on the Peak II... there wasn't enough wind to stay upwind on either kite, but the 12m was a little better -- This is also obviously significantly a function of size, so the jury is still out, but I'm guessing the higher AR will make the Peak II the winner.
Winner: Jury's still out

Soooo... The Peak I is going to new home and I'm definitely buying a Peak II, foldy wings and all, but I'm still torn about the size. The 12m has a ton of grunt and turns about as fast the Peak I 9m, but I can't help but ask a bunch of questions -- so now I'm torn. Here are my questions:

• "Could I generate the same amount of power from a Peak II 9m that I can loop faster and therefore more often?"
  
• "Will I miss the lift capability of a 12m if I go with Peak II 9m?"
  
• "The low end on the 9m and 12m is probably almost exactly the same (for flight... maybe 1-2 mph difference for traction), am I losing out on high end capability by choosing the 12m?"
  
• "For low / garbage wind, is one better off getting a Peak I 9m and putting a better bar on it?"
  

Yeah, so now I'm totally torn. I'm guessing that if I have a chance to fly either kite in solid 5-15 mph, I'll be happy either way, but that 9m vs. 12m question is burning a smoking hole in my noggin'. I can't sleep... I can't think about anything else until I get this question resolved. Please pipe up with your opinion and we'll let statistics decide

Always so thorough Dave... REALLY great write up and a tough decision, I'm sure!

Here's just what I'm thinking about; you probably ought to ask you self 2 questions:

1. What are your wind conditions like MOST FREQUENTLY?... do you get skunked more form too low wind or too high wind? I would say if its more typically LOW you would want to lean more toward the 12m if more typically High, I would say 9m. I know you said there's not a great difference in the low end, but given the slight difference in what's needed to get you moving, do your more frequent conditions warrant a 12m over a 9m? I think you can even add the lift quotient here as well; will you more frequent conditions allow you to get air with the 9m or the 12m?

2. Given your concern over missing out on the high end of the 9m if you choose the 12m; will that high end be met by any of the LEIs you are planning on picking up?

not having experience with your disciplines or with the Peak, those are just my initial thoughts, I can't really speak to the other questions... just adding my 2 cents (though it's likely worth much less).

Gonna miss you at JIBE

I voted 12 meter. However, I only skimmed the posts. Short attention span

Since I don't care about lift (and presumably in low wind, you don't either), I would probably go with keeping the Peak 1 9m and doing the bar mods to make it a bit nicer, and potentially adding longer lines to push the envelope on windrange. While you ended up wanting the Peak II, your review would have me happier buying the Peak 1

Plus, a kite in hand . . .

Good point.

1. Definitely skunked by low winds probably over 50% of the time, honestly.
2. Most definitely already covered by a 12m Cronix (flies in about 10 mph min) and an 8m RPM (Flies up to about 40mph)
Thanks!

Quote: Originally posted by soliver

Always so thorough Dave... REALLY great write up and a tough decision, I'm sure! Here's just what I'm thinking about; you probably ought to ask you self 2 questions: 1. What are your wind conditions like MOST FREQUENTLY?... do you get skunked more form too low wind or too high wind? I would say if its more typically LOW you would want to lean more toward the 12m if more typically High, I would say 9m. I know you said there's not a great difference in the low end, but given the slight difference in what's needed to get you moving, do your more frequent conditions warrant a 12m over a 9m? I think you can even add the lift quotient here as well; will you more frequent conditions allow you to get air with the 9m or the 12m? 2. Given your concern over missing out on the high end of the 9m if you choose the 12m; will that high end be met by any of the LEIs you are planning on picking up? not having experience with your disciplines or with the Peak, those are just my initial thoughts, I can't really speak to the other questions... just adding my 2 cents (though it's likely worth much less). Gonna miss you at JIBE

Quote: Originally posted by PHREERIDER

9m ....all my FS bars are custom super slotted for zero bar impingement . it definitely makes it faster in light air for snappy loop pops and let outs or turn and pop loops. if its not custom then everyone has it. go custom

Who drills it out for you and how is it done?