not a knot!

Colin - good thread post!

I've got exactly the same issue with a used FS Peak2 I picked up a couple of months ago. A simple overhand knot just whistling away (metaphorically) about half way up to the kite, mine being on a power line. I haven't examined it closely but since it is a power line I'm sure it is darn tight. I feel it often times when I wrap up my lines on the bar after a session. It bugs me the way a scab does, knowing I shouldn't scratch on it!

Riffclown - thanks for your thoughts. Others out there? Work to unknot of leave the scab alone? :dunno:

Quote: Originally posted by Windstruck

Riffclown - thanks for your thoughts. Others out there? Work to unknot of leave the scab alone? :dunno:

"Knots weaken the rope in which they are made. When knotted rope is strained to its breaking point, it almost always fails at the knot or close to it, unless it is defective or damaged elsewhere. The bending, crushing, and chafing forces that hold a knot in place also unevenly stress rope fibers and ultimately lead to a reduction in strength. The exact mechanisms that cause the weakening and failure are complex and are the subject of continued study."

In addition to weakening at the knot, if you fly with the lines crosses from a loop or more, the knot the the powerline will serve as a point of friction that saws against the other lines.

Dyneema has a relatively low melting point.

If you have never experienced the joy of having a dyneema line (on it's maiden flight) melted by a 8 year old flying his single line kite on dacron line.... it's almost enough to bring tears to your eyes.... or at least colorful language to your lips.

Needles are easy to use because they're readily found at hand. However, a set of ball burnishers (especially if it includes finer ones), can often do the work without damaging the individual strands because at the name implies it terminates with a ball.



ATB,
Sam

Sam - as always, thanks for your sage council. I'd never heard of ball burnishers before but they look ideal for the cause being raised by Colin in this thread.

I'm particularly pleased that you provided a picture of these devices. Upon original reading I had first thought by their name that they were something my wife would want around the house to "keep the peace".

Quote: Originally posted by acampbell

Sam, those ball burnishers were a great idea. And I thought that you would have suggested a cat.

Only if you never want to use the line for flying again.

Hardest knot I ever had to get out was in 30# Spectra line (mosquito floss used for flying a Prism 3D) with two cats wanting to help every step of the way.

ATB,
Sam

Quote: Originally posted by skimtwashington

I thought I have heard(on here?) that a knot will weaken that line's breaking strength to about half it's rating....? If true that's real bad..

Yes, generally an overhand knot has an efficiency of 50%, meaning it loses 50%!of strength, and a figure eight knot is 83% efficient. But in one study, even a figure eight knot drops to 53% efficiency in dyneema. But I just revisited that paper and it has been pulled for review (Caves.org). Either way, knots are bad.

Quote: Originally posted by ssayre

a little town called ballsakia

Now that's funny Sean.

Quote: Originally posted by Windstruck

I'm particularly pleased that you provided a picture of these devices. Upon original reading I had first thought by their name that they were something my wife would want around the house to "keep the peace".

I got a good laugh from this too. You started it. Ballsakia is real. It's just south of weinerville. Ok, goodnight. :D

Quote: Originally posted by ssayre

Ballsakia is real. It's just south of weinerville.

It's said that on a clear cold night that you can see a certain planet in the heavens from there.

ENOUGH ! :piggy:

just north of Calgary.
I wish I was making this up.
Me and my boys howled as we drove through. The better half wasn't nearly as amused...

O Canada!

OK!
I can not be held responsible for deviant hijacks in thread with a dangling lead in like this one. Ha!
I will simply say thank you for your soggy suggestion, (and yes I will try it when I get the lines out next) and leave the perverted innuendo to other members.:saint::saint::saint:

On the subject of line problems...It is also good to know how to splice a line in case of break or just a bad fray.

You will need extra length of similar line, fid or thin gauge wire, and how-to chart.

Much cheaper than buying new line set or single line(no one sells singles)...

So is the knot not naught now, or still a Knot?

Quote: Originally posted by Windstruck

Colin - good thread post! I've got exactly the same issue with a used FS Peak2 I picked up a couple of months ago. A simple overhand knot just whistling away (metaphorically) about half way up to the kite, mine being on a power line. I haven't examined it closely but since it is a power line I'm sure it is darn tight. I feel it often times when I wrap up my lines on the bar after a session. It bugs me the way a scab does, knowing I shouldn't scratch on it!

Heya Windstruck. I sold you that bad boy, and I'm pretty certain there wasn't an extra knot in those lines (right after I condemn myself by talking about my Beamer knot. Doh! ) Are you talking about the special "Flysurfer" knot that they use to keep the bar from flying all the way to the lines when you pop the safety? It always pissed me off that they used a knot instead of something more responsible like a stopper. Anyway, let me know. I'd hate to have sold you a borked piece of equipment.

VICTORY IS MINE!

Great thanks to Colin for the original posting and to Crazy Herb for the suggestion of gentle chewing and saliva. Yesterday I worked a simple overhand knot out of one of my center lines on a Flysurfer Peak2 setup and flew the kite afterwards with no incidents. The knot was like a little pebble at first. VERY light chewing, re-soaked it several times with my saliva and worked it out with my fingernails (which are pretty blunt and soft compared to a lot of people's). The little bugger put up an initial fight but then succumbed to my urging and opened up! I could most certainly tell where the knot had been when inspecting the line (it looked sort of buffed up for about and inch or so).

The little bugger turned out to be on the 5th safety line between the bar and where the line splices back into one of the front lines. I didn't discover that until after the knot was loosened (I had assumed it was on one of the front lines). That probably means it wasn't under a great deal of tension much of the time, but by the time I had loosed it I wanted the little bugger out of there. It isn't possible to run the safety line out through the chicken loop and swivel because it is larks knotted to a little metal ring after it passes through the swivel. It took a little creativity, but I figured out that by detaching that side's power line at both ends that I was able to feed the entire power line/safety line combo through the knot and undue it. Yay!

Good luck to others suffering from similar miladies! :o

Quote: Originally posted by Windstruck

Proletariat - doh! You may be right about the knot. BTW you didn't end up selling me your kite. We did engage but then you sold to somebody else. I ended up buying one of Chris' demo kites from his Hardwater school. It would be pretty straightforward to put that knot back in place.

Oh. Well then that jerk you bought it from probably put a knot into it out of spite and malice . I'm glad you like the P2. I miss my P1, but not that bar.

For what it is worth, my own brand spankin' new Peak 12 meter had a knot in one of my own flying lines....straight from Flysurfer.

So sometimes they aren't from prior owner or from a bad pack job. If you don't run each line occasionally they can be easy to miss depending where it is.


Chewing works and so too does very patient fingers with very careful use of an awl or a tooth pick (never used the hammer but heard good things

Some knots too are critical to keep stuff in place :o