Kite Control - Suggestions

Ahh, ok, I will give that a go. - It could just be technique to a degree. I get scared when I'm standing on the board so I tend to be gentle with the kite so it doesnt pull me over. Maybe with confidence I can pull across the window more for power.

My friend has it down to a tea... i hate him.. hes lighter than me too.. its not fair (with my kite)

Hes got a 4.5 bullet, I can hardly control that, it just pulls me on my arse and takes me for a ride down the field.. so much fun, but I'm not strong enough to pull it down into the window it takes me for a ride just going side to side at the edge.

I live in a lowish wind area. average is about 6 - 10 mph during summer.

I want traction, rather than lift for now. What size would you suggest? any models?

Im thinking a 4.5 rage or bullet?


Also, how do you get it to sit lower in the window? I can dive through it, but I can't get it to sit?

Is this me or the wind? I can use the breaks to bring it down, do I just tweak the breaks until its where I want it?

Also, how do you get it to sit lower in the window? I can dive through it, but I can't get it to sit?

Is this me or the wind? I can use the breaks to bring it down, do I just tweak the breaks until its where I want it?

Edited last post after you commented

Yes - I am inland. centre of UK. will look at the Nasa range. might contact local shop too, think they let you play before you buy.

Size - shy of 200lbs. 5ft 10"

Yeah, I think I can grow into his bullet, just a little much for me at the moment. Whats strop in mean?

I had to look up what that was :D

I try to fight it but when someone mentions needing low lift, grunt, and inland wind, the urge to post overwhelms me

....flew nasa once at WW on stupid offshore nasty gusty stuff, pbly shouldnt judge it by that
couldnt really fly anything proper that day....so much brake input and delicacy involved that day its hard for me to imagine
any newb successful at it...it was more of an art, like my cquads and not implying im an artist

Speed equals power .

Flying the kite fast through the window will create that spurt of power that you describe. Use that spurt to get your ground speed up. Point the board almost down wind at 1st ( in low winds ) . Fly the kite in a sine pattern ~~~. try to glide as you set up for each burst of power ( sort of on the upswing of the sine wave ) and lean against the power burst as you send the kite down into the wind each time trying to add speed to your run. In a perfect world after a few pumps you have created enough ground speed to continue more cross / upwind. You can only truly gain upwind when leaning against some power. You can only maintain power with your kite at the edge ( park and ride ) when you have a big enough kite for the wind. ( + your ground speed combined )

I personally find trying to ATB with too small a kite is a struggle. I need a certain amount of sail to lean back against. Or as you see balance gets tricky. When you are well powered you only need to dip the kite to one side to start moving. None of that dive the kite and create ground speed stuff.

Even though your Alpha is rated to fly from 6kts to 21kts flying and creating enough power to ride are 2 different things .

With a small kite you must learn in scary strong winds for the kite to perform as it should. With a larger kite you have to be responsible enough to say, " I'm overpowered and should pack up " but learning is easier and riding more enjoyable until then. Your Alpha is a great choice for building pilot skills but it falls short as an ideal engine. You buddies 4.5 is designed more as an engine. I owned a 4.5 Bulllet and loved it! Just DON'T jump with it !!!!!!!!! It has a habit of sending you hard to the ground if you miss your timing on a jump!

People who ride stand up almost always end up flying depower kites for LOTS of good reasons. This is a bit of a problem for you since depower kites need more wind. I fly 18 and 19m kites in the winds you describe. You would need at least a 10m.

I don't have a lot of 1st hand experience with the Nasa Star series of kites but they are winning people over. I suggest you look into them. They sound like they will work well in the low winds you describe. They are supposed to handle gusty wind real well. You can fly them hooked in and that is a good thing with ATB + progressing to depower. The only draw back I see with them is that they are not designed for jumping.

If you and your friend are sort of sharing a quiver you may want to consider getting something bigger to compliment his 4.5? The fact you are 2 different sizes means he should get by on the smaller choice while you have similar power to size as he does on one size up.

Tip: To avoid going over the top of the board I scrunch down low and push my feet out in front of my center of gravity. Hopefully sliding down wind or at least falling back on my butt ( and my Hillbilly a$$ pads ). :moon:

A helmet is a MUST!

Quote: Originally posted by abkayak

not 8's......a wave pattern hills and valleys...this is to the left or right of you...not above or in front you go left you sine 11-9....you go right its 1-3....smooth and generate pull w/ kite going up and down practice static apply to board and away we go....bug, board, water all the same someone got a link for the man?

awesome, thanks for clearing that up. I will give that a go tomorrow. Forecast some nice strong wind 21 mph tomorrow so I am hoping it should make for some good chances.

I've been figure of 8'ing so that might account for the instability.

Quote: Originally posted by Bladerunner

Speed equals power . Flying the kite fast through the window will create that spurt of power that you describe. Use that spurt to get your ground speed up. Point the board almost down wind at 1st ( in low winds ) . Fly the kite in a sine pattern ~~~. ...)

Hi Bladerunner,

There is a lot of fantastic information / advice here thank you very much.

I get that I'm underpowered for the board. If you can imagine, I am very new with this still. In fact, I think I've only had the alpha for 2 or 3 weeks. With very low winds, I'm not getting much 'air time'. That being said, I have mastered the control elements (basic) of the kite and the time I've had on the 4.5 has been insightful. The ATB for me at the moment is just to play with, I struggle to turn it so scared to step up the power to much Forced power from the alpha is kinda just a natural progression from just standing there with it.

I get your point with the learning curve being easier with a kite designed to pull though, I'll maybe spend more time on the 4.5 and scud a little first maybe.

I think we are going to share kites, so yes maybe getting a depower straight away might be a good idea? That way, we have small kite for high winds, bullet to practice traction and depower to progress into different winds / jumps? if I'm understanding their usage.

I get the leaning back idea that you suggest, at the moment I am 'cycloning' the kite, that generates a lot of pull and I have to counter that quite a bit.

Thanks again for the detailed post, I will re-read that a few times for it to sink in.

Quote: Originally posted by ssayre

Nasa star is good handling lulls. On a hard gust you might have to intentially jump forward or slide to help mitigate a gust. Ultimately, depower will be better to be able to handle a larger wind range. Like fixed bridle, nasa star has a narrow range. There abkayak, I tempered my ns enthusiasm

If you had to choose, knowing where I am at the moment; either nasa star or depower what would it be?

This is likely to be a xmas present, so I have the alpha and the bullet to keep me company.

Quote: Originally posted by Devoted

I dont know how you ride, but maybe you ride to much down wind. In kiddie language...riding towards the kite. It means you basically ride in a way that you constantly loose the tension on your lines. solution...put your back towards the wind, spread your arms and rhats the direction you want to ride. Move to much towards the kite and you loose tension, move to much back from that line and you will stand still. Kiddie languadge bit maybe it helps. If yoy can ride in low winds, you should be able to ride in higher winds. In tree he end it comes down to hours. Making hours, getting experianced.

nail on the head I think here man. I've had maybe 4 hrs of kite time so there is an element of trying to run before I can walk.

I do get the idea of offsetting the kite a little though. I am running toward the wind a little, mainly because off to the side and I fall flat on my face. (cuts to prove it) or have to bail out of the straps. I have a g2a flexdeck now so maybe I will be able to lean against the pull a little more.

Plus, first time on a board so I just need to learn balance..

Thanks for the explination, it really helps. though, I am curious; other than leaning back, is there a way to counter that face planting pull? or is this just something that I will learn with practice?

Quote: Originally posted by shortlineflyer

I understand where you are in learning, it takes a while to learn what to do, but eventualy it wil just click and you will be able to do it easily. one thing i have heard people say bvefore when working on technique is film yourself and and compare it to videos of more experienced riders. if your friend can do it film him and compare it

Great shout!

I will give this ago.. damn.. there could be some funny clips for facebook too..

I think my understanding of sineing to generate power was partly to blame, thinking about it, he seems to do it correctly.

I do like the HQ kites, I might keep an eye out for a scout on ebay or gumtree

Quote: Originally posted by Windstruck

Chris (feyd) must be out earning a living or something. I would have expected him to have opined already about the Flysurfer Peak2 Depowed Single Skin. Ssayre already suggested a DP and I tend to agree with him. I am a buggy rider not a board rider but can tell you with first hand experience in inland winds of the sort you get (and I get all the time) that the Peak2 is a superb kite for this application. I use the 12M size. I weigh about the same as you but get pulled around in a buggy so there is more total mass to get moving. I might suggest, therefore that you look into the 9M peak 2. There are at least three things you will appreciate about the Peak2 series. They launch and pull well in quite light winds, much lower winds than comparable double skin DPs. They have a ridiculous amount of DP so they are quite safe when it comes to handling buffets and gusts. Third, the larger 9M and 12M Peak2s move somewhat sluggishly (much slower than the 3.5 FB kite you are using now). Because of this you will have a vastly easier time doing the elusive park and ride positioning you are struggling with with your small FB. I have a hard time doing the same thing with my smaller FB kites. As you will see from my list of kites I'm also a NPW enthusiast and have also great things to say about them, just no experience on a board. IMHO, I would suggest looking first at a larger Peak2, second at a larger NASA Star 3 (7 or 8.5 maybe?). Good luck!

Hi Steve,

thanks for the advice. I think after reading everyones posts, I am feeling a push to the depower kites. It makes total sense and the earlier I do it, the less cash I can going to spend on FB's.

I may just keep an eye out for some bigger FB kites on auction sites while I'm saving for a DP.

I will have to research the kites suggested, as I aint really got a clue yet. Just got over my research for my first kite, as some of you might remember

Think the peak2 9m will be big enough? 12m to big of a jump up?

are the NASA's DP's too?

Nothing quite so fine as being "dark, rich, and sexy" and dropping the bull joke on us abkayak - priceless!

All joking aside, abkayak is dead on. When I was starting out I actually bought two DVDs on buggying and studied how to get rolling. I was having the same trouble as you which was using too small a kite and not smoothly making the transition from facing down wind, dropping the kite from zenith into a dive across the wind window and making what we call in surfing (yes, I'm a surfer too) the "bottom turn". I studied and studied those videos and scoured the YouTube trove for beginning buggy clips. All I wanted to do was make the bottom turn and start heading across the freaking field!! Then I got a bigger kite (my 12M P2) put it up in the air, s-l-o-w-l-y dropped it over and shazzam, clumsily completed my first bottom turn, and before I knew it was flying down the field yelping happily like a school kid. I unlocked the first crucial door and have been making steady progress ever since. And yes, you will eat grass from a board. In the buggy world we get our OBEs which can go Code Brown every once in a while. Every step of the way is a learning process as stated before. Hats off to you for going the board route right out of the chute; buggy piloting is far easier of a skill set.

We all love PKF and these threads, but man, just get out there and experiment. This is a "feel" sport plain and simple, and there is just no way to read or watch your way through that. It sounds as if you are having fun.... go get some!

Quote: Originally posted by Bladerunner

Work on bending your knees and getting your center of gravity LOW and behind the board when the power comes on. Push out with your feet. With this method you go over the top less often but end up on your butt (and bang the back of your head ) on occasion. When being dragged on your butt you at least still have control of your kite. KITE 1st!!!!!!! Get that running in your head! It has become the 1st thing that my old brain goes to as soon as things go bad and was a break through in my learning curve. Keeping tension on the front lines is key. If you are losing tension you need to cut upwind / start off in less of a down wind angle. You are making a very smart move by doing all this research before you get your next kite. With so many kites and so many opinions it's still hard to make a choice. Best move is always " try before you buy " . Short of that, getting peoples 1st hand experience with these different kites is best. Young folks learn quick. You and your buddy should be ready and capable of stepping up to depower by Christmas. Factor in that you will need a harness. Sounds like you and your buddy will need one each, being different sizes? Will you snow kite over the winter? LEI are affordable but learning on them on land is risky. You will crash a lot at 1st and LEI may not stand up to that. I think the Peak is a good direction to look. Problem is, Peak 1's don't come up for re-sale much. If your folks can't afford a new Peak 2 or other new depower kite explain to them that they may have to shop a bit early. You can find some screamin' deals on this and other respectable forums but you need to do your homework, watch the sites and be ready to move when the right kite comes up. As everybody is saying the best thing you can do at this point ( besides studying up on your next kite ) is getting time in. Accept that you will have to learn to get every bit of power possible from the Alpha and take comfort knowing it will make you a better pilot in the long run. Will your buddy also be able to get a second kite by then ?

Hi Balderunner,

Yes we are different sizes so will need to harnesses. He is going to get a smaller bullet in a week or 2 as the 4.5 is to strong for us at the moment n he lives near coas so massively stronger wind. I'm the cautious one. I like researching and slow starts. He's impulsive.....

Yes we will both be getting new kites. Different sizes so we can share were possible n he has different conditions.. sadly I have lost the added benefits of parents buying me stuff. I'll have to save n buy myself ; (

No snow here. Or very little. The joys of cold wet climate... Long live UK weather in all its misery!

Guys,

Just following on from this conversation. Took the kite (new) on sat. The kite killer snapped again after 2 releases.. Is this normal or just poor design? (the HQ kitekillers have plastic holders for the knots. The plastic splits when you release).

Im thinking after all your advice to change the alpha for a 4m scout. I'm not ready to move to DP kite yet, skillwise or financially.

My reasoning is: I have the very basics of the 3.5m down. Plus, I can see outgrowing this very quickly.

I am a big boy so I can hold the weight of the 3.5m in anything except extreme winds that I dont really
want to be flying in that kind of wind.

Lastly, I want to use the ATB. I am going to get cleaner wind at lower wind speeds with the 4m, and in
higher winds I can practice skudding

is this a sensible move? or am I gonna kill myself?

Quote: Originally posted by abkayak

no....u should be a scud jeti master before you put on an atb

OK I'm stuck in a loop of indecision

In an effort to not repeat to much.

3.5 alpha is underpowered. Depower is the end goal (12 mnths) 4.5 bullet is too much.

I think a 4 would be fine. I don't want a bar yet. I want the handles.

What 4 line traction kite would I want?

Ok, no ATB until scudding nicely...
I'm sorry I'm being a pain with this. Going for overload at the moment.

No happy with the 3.5 n don't know where to go from here....

Quote: Originally posted by abkayak

idk...i got a 3.5 bullet and feel that thing can really pull and needs to be paid attention to at all times(quick)...i didnt like my 5m scout so much but only had it on a bar...bottom line just kites the same size do act differently so dont get hung up on the #....sorry i know this doesnt help but a lot of this is figuring things out by just doing

Yeah.. I just need to figure out what I need by playing. Haha

Sorry to keep spamming with messages but your insight is useful..

My toss up now is 4m blade but scared of the lift or 3.5 rage. Hahaha...
jeez. . I need a break. I'm not looking at s kite for 24 hrs information overload...

Yeah it's going cheap too.. I wonder why.. a lot of blades on sale

Yeah ok no blades..

Ever flown a rage?