Power Kite Forum

Launching Prism Tensor

wolphy - 20-7-2015 at 08:55 AM

Hi, all. I hope this is the right place for such questions. I have recently purchased Prism Tensor 5.0, and this being my first kite ever, I am trying to learn how to control it. So far, I have attempted to launch it 3 times. First, there was plenty of space and wind (on a beach), but I had my lines tangled up and could not control the kite so I got chased away by life guards. Second, a smaller beach, where again I had my lines tangled up - so it did not fly. My third attempt, I think I had the lines straight but no wind.

Here are my question for the experienced folks at this forum.

1. When I am trying to launch in a wind that exceeds 10-15mph, what is the strategy for keeping kite foil down while straightening the lines?

I do not have a partner so must learn alone. And in my second attempt the wind was fairly rough with my kite moving quite a bit (which is why, I think, it was tangled at the end.)

2. What is a good way to wrap the kite and lines so that when you unfold/unwrap them, it takes little time to straighten out? (Yes, I did wrap the lines in figure-eight movement around the handlebar.)

Thanks all!

Windstruck - 20-7-2015 at 09:11 AM

Welcome to the Monkey House! Always room for a few more good chimps. ;)

I used to own three kites in the Prism Tensor line, the 3.1, 4.0, and 5.0. From the Prism website comes this description of the 5.0: "The Tensor 5.0 is the big daddy of our three Tensor power kites, with the stump-pulling power to get you up and going on snow or in lighter winds where a smaller kite just won’t get it done." I would attest to its stump-pulling power.

Where to start Wolphy? Everyone on PKF is invested in your fun and SAFETY. I for one would NEVER recommend a newbie launching the Tensor 5.0 as my first kite, particularly in 10-15 mph winds. I assume you are using the "kite killer" strap off of the center line of the control bar? If not, please do, cause you're going to need it. Before even going any farther, can I kindly suggest that you go down to a 2.5 or 3.0m kite as your first kite? You may have dodged some danger with all those unsuccessful launches. Think Superman: https://youtu.be/_WKbZWvo-GY

Since you are on a beach, use sand piled up on the trailing edge of the kite to keep it in place while you are setting up your lines. The trailing edge is the bottom. Strongly consider setting up the kite such that you are one the edge of the wind window and not directly at the bottom. What this means is set up the kite at say a 45 degree angle to the direction of the wind, not straight downwind so you face the kite head on with the wind blowing directly behind you. If you set up directly downwind you will be performing what we call a "hot launch" (see Superman reference above).

Here's the funny thing about how our brains work. If you are using a kite killer the simplest thing in the world in your mind before the action starts is to say "What could go wrong? If the pulling force gets too high I can just let go, just like it says in the manual". Fact of life - you will hot launch, completely forget to let go, get yanked out of your socks, and yes, Superman.

I don't want to scare you or appear over reactionary, but a resounding piece of advice you will hear on PKF is to start with a smaller kite and work up. A 5m Tensor is a lot of kite on a fixed bridle. I'm a 200+ lbs strong man and I've been completely overpower by that kite. Have fun (we all do!) but please consider safety too.

We look forward to your stories! Can you get somebody to film your first attempt? :evil:

wolphy - 20-7-2015 at 09:29 AM

Thanks, @Windstruck. VERY helpful points!!! I have taken safety very seriously, and (at least for my attempt at 15mph+ wind launch) managed to overcome the "hang-on-to-the-bar" reflex quite well (you would have enjoyed the part where I nearly plowed the sand with my nose there ;).) I think the key points that have been missing in my launch attempts have been precisely the 45-degree positioning and sand (the sand I have been contemplating already, just was not sure of it :D). I certainly am using the safety strap. I will post whatever feedback my progress brings, and will try to get someone to record me in the future.

abkayak - 20-7-2015 at 09:49 AM

get a 3m and you will fly more often and learn faster/better imo...you should have nothing to do w/ 5m and 15mph winds right now...keep packing up your lines the same exact way every time and soon you will be better at it...no shortcuts
welcome and have fun

dangerdan - 20-7-2015 at 10:32 AM

Listen to Winstruck and others, I was Superman for 5 seconds before I came down and hurt myself.
One thing not mentioned is that when you pack your kite, wrap your lines with the brake on ( the bottom of the handle towards you and the top away from you) so when you unwrap your lines the kite is in brake mode.

ssayre - 20-7-2015 at 10:40 AM

Great example of why to start on 3 meter. It will make learning and sorting stuff out much easier

wolphy - 20-7-2015 at 11:03 AM

Interesting point, dangerdan, would not have thought of it! I will take extra care in the next couple of weeks to avoid strong winds and obstacles, and if I can't learn to control this monster by then I'll definitely downgrade. I am pretty heavy and athletic (over 200lb, mostly solid muscle) - and I am using this kite as a trainer for kitesurfing ones as I am starting private lessons on the later. That's why I picked this size, bash me as you might for it. :D

ssayre - 20-7-2015 at 11:27 AM

Nah, not bashing at all. That size is tame in light wind. A smaller size just gives you the opportunity to learn in the largest wind range possible without having to guard yourself against the kite while learning. A fixed bridle trainer on a bar basically just teaches you the wind window. Size doesn't really matter for that. Kitesurfing kites are depower and will be completely different size to power ratio.

Edit: The tensor can teach you a lot more than the wind window especially if flown on handles instead of bar.

Windstruck - 20-7-2015 at 11:43 AM

I'm glad you mentioned that you are heading down the kitesurfing path, that helps us out in trying to guide you. As you get deeper into kiting you will find (if you don't already know) that there are a lot of different kite types, bridle setups, number of lines, control bars/handles, harnesses, etc. For a lot of land based kiting sports a lot of us would recommend learning to fly a four line "fixed bridle" FB kite off of handles. Your Prism control bar is nice in that it splits in two forming two very nice handles. You can transform your Prism from acting like a 2 line kite off of a bar into a full fledged quad lined handle controlled beauty. Little replaces the learning that takes place from learning to fly a kite "static" (standing on the ground as compared to motoring around via buggy, landboard, surfboard, etc.) no matter where you are heading in the kiting world. Learning to control a kite with all four lines independently really teaches you a great deal about how all kites work up in the air and the kind of control you can have over them.

If you are heading towards the kitesurfing sports then the Prism 5.0 is hardly a monster. With your build you will be throwing 16+ square meters of kite up in the air just to haul that chiseled physique of yours up out of the water, much less propelling you across the water. For a FB land kite 5m of ripstop is just quite a bit to handle right out of the chute. You do have a day job, right? Enough said. ;)

One thing not mentioned yet in this thread but bears mentioning is that smaller kites (such as FBs in the 3m size range) are way ZIPPIER than the 5m Prism. Once you get a smaller FB up in the air you will know exactly what I mean. Think 18 wheeler versus sports car sort of differences performance wise. It is striking how much changing the size of a kite changes the way it behaves in the air and the time it takes to react to your input. Your 5m kite will have tons of "grunt" but will be slow as molasses compared to the exact same kite in a smaller size (such as the Prism Tensor 3.1m). If you can swing it financially I'd really suggest you buying the 3.1 and training up on that. Quick reaction time to rapidly changing conditions may just save you someday out in the water.

Have fun! You are off on a great adventure. This thread comes on the heels of us PKFers talking a college aged young man off the ledge a couple of weeks ago when he was contemplating learning to kite by throwing an old 16m DP Rhino up in the air alone on a lake. He is a great guy and listened to our advice, but that could have ended up with a Tombstone aspect to the story! Consider reading through his thread as many of these newbie issues come up and get hashed out.

http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=30684

Have the patience to start the sport off right and you will have years of thrills! :cool:

Bladerunner - 20-7-2015 at 03:42 PM

Please don't feel we are bashing when saying that the 5m wasn't the best choice. Folks are just trying to warn you about the difference in going the tried and true method of starting with a 3mish kite as compared to a 5m. Many who started with a 5m kite and RESPECTED IT'S POWER have made it through the learning curve. Probably as many have been spanked and turned away from the sport. Don't be " that guy ". Accept that you have a pretty big kite and that 15mph winds will be dangerous at 1st. Live to fly another day.

That is the beauty of a 3m kite. It flies early because it's fast and you don't have to pack up when the wind actually gets strong. It is ALL about learning kite control at 1st. Setting reflex memories. You can " control " the power in a 3m kite but with any decent amount of wind you will find yourself DEFENDING yourself from the power of a 5m. Not really learning to fly so much as survive the power. If money is not a big issue then you might want to consider a 3m? Then sell the 5m when you are done with it. You will likely want to keep the 3m for fun and teaching friends down the rode.

HUGE prop's for going the lesson route and having the sense to know that learning the wind window etc. with a trainer before going in to the lessons is worth while. If money is an issue you can get by with the 5m. Money will be better spent on a depower etc. if you are moving to water. Just don't let the 5m spank you!


Check out www.kitesurfingschool.org
Look for " side launch " in there or Youtube to get a clear idea of how it's done.

Another way to " park " your kite down wind is to use a" kite stake " and hook your brake ( back ) lines to the stake. This backs the kite on to the ground similar to bringing it down from the sky. You stake the kite so you can walk up to it and apply weights ( sand) to the trailing ( bottom ) edge.

It kind of scares me that you are launching the kite without checking / walking your lines! You want to ALSO check your safety system before launching !

The big trick with wrapping your lines is to be sure you wrapping them up and unwrap them the exact same way. Wax on, wax off. I always hold my handles or bar in my left hand. Wrap on clockwise, off ANTI-clockwise. If you can wrap the lines in bar mode doing it in figure 8's is even better.



:bigok:

awindofchange - 20-7-2015 at 04:15 PM

Wolphy,

Are you flying the Tensor with handles or the control bar? The Tensor can be flown with both configurations and is convertable between the two. Handles would be two independent handles, one in each hand with two lines attached to each one. The control bar setup would be one long control bar with all four lines attached to it as one piece.

Knowing this will help give better instruction on how to launch/land/control etc...

Windstruck - 20-7-2015 at 04:52 PM


Quote:

(Yes, I did wrap the lines in figure-eight movement around the handlebar.)


Kent - shout out from Park City! I took it from his original "handlebar" posting quoted above that he was flying on the long bar setup. I've had this exact kite and always liked how it converted from bar to handles. I found the kite even more of a "barge" flying off the bar. The bugger is darn near impossible to turn without a combination of pull and brake that of course can only be done on handles.

average_newb - 20-7-2015 at 10:37 PM

Yea take it from me that college kid that had a tombstone waiting for him and was guided by all of these great guys who have been kiting for years, maybe even centuries for all I know, heck they are on this forum enough who knows they may even talk about kiting in their sleep. This is a great group of guys who you should take advice from, I've been extremely eager to fly but haven't had anywinds so I took out my 3m with winds that could barely hold up the flags suprisingly I got it in the air, and it still has pull and very much so on its way down into the power zone. I have been flying stunts for a while now and know about the wind window and how to control the kite around it. That isn't the thing you need to know the most, respecting the power and pull of the kite all around the window because even if you're at the edge and have it under control. It could turn and you will get a face full of sand after supermanning a good distance. Learning the wind window is great and actually only takes minutes to learn but learn to react to the kite when it starts to get out of control or overpowered because that is what will allow you to actually start enjoying yourself. And Steve this means I haven't put up the 2 rhinos and am alive and well contently flying the 3m hornet. Seriously these guys provide amazing help and advice take it.

Windstruck - 20-7-2015 at 11:00 PM

Alex - grasshopper, you successfully grasped the pebble from our hands. Good work. Only folks as old as dirt (like me and a lot of the PKF family) would understand that reference. Trust me, it's a compliment. :smug:

wolphy - 21-7-2015 at 05:36 AM

Dear friends, if there is one thing years have taught me, it would be to have respect for experience. As of now, I am planning to return this 5m and replace it with 3m. I will likely get another tensor for it's 2 line option.

Would someone recommend a different brand as a better choice?

abkayak - 21-7-2015 at 05:52 AM

if theyll take it back...ok, im good w/ that...any 3m/4 line not on ebay asia will do nicely
but i think you should just drive around w/ the 5 in the trunk, buy a new 3 and go for broke
id feel better about myself anyway

wolphy - 21-7-2015 at 06:39 AM

abkayak, I am a bit confused... The first reason I want to downgrade is that everyone here univocally says that 5m is way too large a kite for starter. The second reason is that I want to learn as much about controlling a kite in the air as possible before/while moving on to the depower kites for kitesurfing. With that in mind, why should I keep the 5m?

Another thing is, as I am getting exposed to the world of kites here, would I be able to use the 3m kite to get started with things like kite snowboarding, buggying, etc.?

ssayre - 21-7-2015 at 06:50 AM

If your strictly going to go depower (which there's nothing wrong with that), than 3m is all you would need. A 5m would be good for traction for snow land in 11 mph to around 15ish

3m would be good on snow land from around 15ish to low 20's

wolphy - 21-7-2015 at 07:02 AM

Thanks all for your help! I hope to reciprocate in the future. :)

3shot - 21-7-2015 at 07:13 AM

No talk of Superman would be complete without our favorite clip :o :D

Kober - 21-7-2015 at 07:51 AM

Not sure if it was mentioned , but Tensor is not a type of kite that you would call a "trainer" in kiteboarding world . It is designed to provide lots of traction power for power kite activities , so you can use it in buggy, snow or landboard . Most kiteboarding instructors use 2 or 3 line trainers from 1 to 3m size that have no lift power and less pull . Mainly because it is so hard to get hurt with those , and because they want to teach you about wind window and kite control, how to avoid kite looping and doing figure of 8 before giving a big kite . Trainer faze in kiteboarding training is very short , since kiteboarding kites are so different. Usually you will get to fly big kite on second lesson . Instructor will teach you all safety procedures and give you smaller size ( 7-9m ) kite and put you in a water where is so much harder to get hurt . Now ...... funny thing is that 5m Tensor have as much power as 9m LEI kite ..... so unless you are 250-300 lbs I think 3m will be fine to learn on . Fastest way to learn kiteboarding ? Get cheap trainer ( $100 or less ) and learn about wind window an how to be in control . When you are not crushing your kite anymore, and are able to fully control it get a lesson !!!! . 2-3 lessons will teach you about 20 days of self training and it will be done safely . I know is expensive but you will be kiteboarding by end of this summer . Another thing ..... don't buy used kiteboarding gear without help of someone with kiteboarding knowledge ( including friends that are kiting a year or so ). Buying proper safe beginner gear is very important for your progression and most beginner LEI kites and boards will not outgrow you for 2 or more years , when advance kites will get you frustrated and slow down your progression a lot .

wolphy - 21-7-2015 at 08:20 AM

Thanks Kober. So, are you saying Prism Tensor 3.1 is NOT a good kite to use as a trainer for my kiteboarding lessons (which I have already booked, btw.?)

Kober - 21-7-2015 at 08:33 AM

I am saying that 3m Tensor is a very good kite that can take you beyond training, but not necessary if you are planning to get lessons. 5m is NOT good kite to use as a trainer . For me, it is so much fun static flying in right conditions. I kiteboard for years now and I still have my 3m Tensor for fun on a beach and to drag my friends into the sport .

wolphy - 21-7-2015 at 08:39 AM

Got it, thank you!

Windstruck - 21-7-2015 at 09:50 AM

Jason - that Superman clip is one of my favorites too! I liked it so much I used it in my original reply to Wolphy's posting that started this thread. :P

Question for you: how do you make the video show up like a little picture as you did as compared to just a hyperlink which is all I've managed? Just trying to get as slick as you. Man, that's a tall hill to climb! Good thing I live at high altitude. ;)

wolphy - 21-7-2015 at 10:18 AM

To embed a YouTube video, use [ youtube ]B_fflPaVeOg[ /youtube ] without spaces, where B_fflPaVeOg is your video ID:
-----------------------------------------

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Or just click on "Post Reply" button and use YouTube icon to set video ID.

Windstruck - 21-7-2015 at 10:45 AM

Way to give back Wolphy!! :thumbup::thumbup:

awindofchange - 21-7-2015 at 07:05 PM

Although the 5m is a larger kite, especially for starting out on, I think you will be fine with it as long as you:

1) Respect it's power
2) Use all your safety gear incluing pads, helmet and safety systems
3) Only take it out when the winds are light and steady - not gusting or bumpy.

Transitioning to the larger kites for surfing you will have tons more power and having a kite that can pull harder is not that bad of a deal. I of course do recommend starting out with a 3 meter or smaller for everyone who is just getting into the sport but seeing as you already have the 5 meter and you sound like you have your head on your shoulders, I think you will be ok as long as you don't push it past your abilities or the proper wind to learn in.

If it feels like it may be too much wind, pack it away for another day. It is always better to say you wish you had a little more wind than "dang, that was way too much wind".

Also, if you can please try to find another kiter in your area. If you look hard enough or talk to your local kite store I am sure you will find someone. That is the best way to learn and the more experienced kiter will be able to assure you if it is good enough wind for your 5m Tensor.

Hope that helps.

Windstruck - 21-7-2015 at 08:36 PM

Consider checking out this thread just started by Alex, another fine newbie fresh into the tribe. Seems he had all he could handle with a 3m Hornet in 18 mph winds. Even these "small" FBs can pack one heck of a punch if the wind picks up.

http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=30739

wolphy - 22-7-2015 at 07:59 AM

Some more questions (don't want to start a new thread...)

1. Is there any use in sharing my progress journal on this site (and if so, should I stick with this section?)

2. What are some good sources for wind forecast for NYC area?

3. Are there any members here that live in Brooklyn, NY neighborhood?

abkayak - 22-7-2015 at 08:13 AM

No......imo, but we all like stories and film
ikitesurf gilgo, ndbc 44065, NOAA weather, nysea.com
yes...maybe too many

Bladerunner - 22-7-2015 at 04:07 PM

If you have to ability to trade the 5m for a 3.1 I think you should take advantage of that! That is one great dealer that will do that for you!

The 3.1 will be a kite you feel very comfortable with down the road. It will serve up good power into some very high winds once you are the master of it. Odds are it will serve as your high wind snow kite as you build your Quiver. It will always have a place in your quiver for sharing with friends etc..

Depower is a much better way to go for snowkiting. Fixed Bridle lacks in wind range and gust munching etc.. LEI is fine, as long as you are past the crashing stage. I suspect you will need 2 LEI kites ( at least ) and they will overlap with the 5m. It will probably not get used after you go depower?

Nothing says you can't use an LEI for buggy. Doing so would keep your quiver simple.

Going Prism was a good choice for your direction. They fly better on handles but it's nice to go bar set up with a harness to get a feel for it before lessons.

Everybody will be happy to hear how you progress. Odds are you will NEED to brag about some of your 1st outings and we all love to share the stoke! Videos are great but we don't post our logs.

gemini6kl - 22-7-2015 at 04:36 PM

I am a landboarder from queens . Im in brooklyn practically every week kiting. Been kiting for over 10 years, i did the kitesurfing thing briefly but gave it up for land as its much eaisier and I can kite all year. Feel free to contact me .

wolphy - 22-7-2015 at 06:50 PM

Bladerunner, that's a great thing about buying stuff on Amazon.  ;)  As of this moment, I've tried launching 5m kite 5 days, learning new things every try and progressing forward. 

Your comment regarding land-centric use of my soon arriving Tensor 3.1 is most exciting, since I had no knowledge of the kiting world prior to ordering 5.0, and thought it would be useful for land activities aside from being a kite boarding trainer.  I am looking forward to new experiences quite impatiently.

Thanks everyone here!

wolphy - 23-7-2015 at 01:18 PM

Looks like my new Tensor 3.1 should be delivered today, and I can hardly wait to fly it. Wind is supposed to be around 9mph...

One of the issues I discovered while trying to fly the 5.0 was it turning and falling. I finally figured out how to turn it around at the end, but it has always picked up a bit of sand when falling, making relaunch and control difficult (for me.)



  1. Is it just a matter of bad skill or is it a general problem with these kites?
  2. Can anyone suggest the best way to clean the kite out before returning to the seller?

Kober - 23-7-2015 at 01:24 PM

1. skills, skills, skills , then wind conditions and more skills
2. shake it up side down , no other way to do it , I think there are clean out velcro on each tip , so you can force all that sand to one tip and open velcro , then when you get some skills , flying it straight down and turning right before hits the ground works too ..... lol

Kober - 23-7-2015 at 01:32 PM

3m will turn much faster then 5m , so make you bar inputs ver gentle and swing kite from left to right until you get better feeling of the bar , make sure you can keep it steady in a air at stop moment when you want it. Swing it faster and faster until you know how much bar input you need for desired reaction . Try to keep kite in upper section of wind window as much as you can , small loops, figure of 8 ........ good luck ...

wolphy - 23-7-2015 at 01:40 PM

Thanks, Kober!

Bladerunner - 23-7-2015 at 04:16 PM

Start out with the kite set up in bar mode.
Walk your lines and be sure they are tangle free.
Check your safety is also tangle free.

All lines should be equal and connected on the same knots.
If the kite spins odds are huge there is some kind of bad influence on one of the back lines.
It should fly to zenith on the front lines and the back lines should be slightly slack.
If it won't fly to zenith and the wind is decent you need to move the front lines up a knot or 2.
Pulling on the back lines will back the kite down + allow you to reverse launch the kite when nose down.

Don't try and fly the kite right away!!! Try and CONTROL the kite right away! Just fly it gently at the edge of the window and avoid sending it deep into the power zone until you have set a few memory reflexes. If you don't understand what I just said. You need to!

wolphy - 23-7-2015 at 06:45 PM

Bladerunner, great advice - thank you! I was actually wondering how to adjust the power properly, and I am glad you explained it well. So far I used factory settings. I have learned to keep my lines clear already, and I understand air dynamics enough to know where the wind force will be the strongest. :)

So, I really, really love the FedEx - they are generally great in my experience. Today, however, my 3m kite never arrived! Not even a note they claim to have left. Oh well, went out with the 5m...

Thus far I have succeeded to have a series of days that taught me about kite setup (lines included) and initial baby steps in controlling it. I can now proudly say that I am familiar with my equipment - and confident about its behavior in the light winds. This is not to say I have any good flying skills. Yet, today I managed to:

1. Get it to turn back after initial turn repeatedly.
2. Launch from the reverse position.
3. Get it to raise all the way up.
4. Zig-zag slightly without losing control.
5. Land gently perpendicular to the wind.

The winds were too light, despite the forecast, possibly 7-9 mph gusts with mostly 3-5 mph semi-regular blowing. So it would not stay up.

One awesome thing that happened was that gemini6kl stopped by to meet me, and I saw his technique for getting the kite up in low wind that I must try soon. He confirmed that one can't fly it in this wind, which makes me feel much better about the whole thing.

wolphy - 24-7-2015 at 04:58 PM

And... YESSSS! I got my 3m one today and went to the beach. The wind was from the ocean, strong enough for flying, so I did. Mostly kept it at the top, tried some maneuvers too. Controlling direction, navigation, moving around the window, landing gently. Seems like I have got the controls down. Now need to automate it, as I did manage to crush the kite while I was talking to some kids, trying to convince them to get away from the line's range.

Here is a short clip of my 2nd launch. Break lines were tangled up, so I landed it and wrapped up. Flying starts around 5 min in.


---------------------------------------------------------
Prism Tensor 3.1

abkayak - 24-7-2015 at 05:17 PM

So looks like rockaway or Riis...the winds are always better by the water especially in the evenings..be careful there lotta people still on that beach

wolphy - 27-8-2015 at 06:28 PM

Finally got someone to record me land-boarding in Floyd Bennett Field! Wind was low and gusty, so just a little action. :D

Bladerunner - 28-8-2015 at 03:47 AM

Like most folks I meet starting out, you seem to be starting with the board too much cross wind and not pointed downwind enough.

You won't suffer from pointing the board too much down wind . You just need to carve to cross / upwind before losing tension on the front lines ( It's all about keeping tension on the front lines ). Not enough and you go over the top.

If you are going over the top on the start point the board more down wind. That hop adjustment you did is ideal if you need to adjust to more down wind.

You will get a LOT more out of that kite in handle mode!

wolphy - 28-8-2015 at 05:18 AM

Bladerunner, thank you for your advice. I am still learning to pilot the kite, AND ride the board, as I have never been on skate or other board until this sport. Combination of the two is even more challenging, but I feel like I am getting better.

One thing I have not yet learned to do is to return once I ride downwind, also stopping is a bit flaky for me still.

Regarding the handlebars, I only flown my kite that way 3 times and not yet have good control of it in this mode. That's why I switched back to the bar going on the board. But after reading your post I am converting my setup to handlebars permanently!

Once again, THANK YOU FOR THE FEEDBACK - it helps a lot!

Windstruck - 28-8-2015 at 05:40 AM

I second Blades comments 100%. Once you understand how a Prism flies ditch the bar set up for good and go handles all the way. I've owned that exact kite and the way the bar splits and becomes two high quality handles is really one of the nice aspects of the overall Prism kite package. I know its tempting to try and fly it with the bar, but all the bar flying you are seeing on YouTube are DP kites hooked into a harness, something completely different than what you have in your hands. At times I've heard the expression that flying a four line FB kite off a bar "dumbs down" the kite. I liken it more to a lobotomy, the difference in control and performance is just that striking. You can't evolve a FB kite closer towards a DP kite by flying it on a bar versus handles. The sad truth is the exact opposite is happening; you're making the kite worse.

Please do consider using the kite killers that come with the Prism, at least at first, so you can just let go of the handles if need be as compared to getting lurched forward on your board onto the asphalt. Great that you were helmeted and padded up, but bottom line pavement hurts to sprawl on no matter how young or how well armored up you are.

While I'm a buggy pilot the concepts are the same; start pointing almost directly downwind (maybe 20 deg off true downwind as an estimate) get rolling with a kite dive and quickly tack out in the direction of intended travel keeping tension on the front lines as Blade pointed out. Since you are doing this on pavement resistance will be very light. You will find the kite behaves quite differently once you get rolling sideways. Your concept of "wind window" will change markedly from your impression of the window from static flying, just wait and see!

Final thought - if you want to move to "the next level" by getting a harness and loading your core as compared to your arms, my humble advice would be to avoid the strop route with the Prism, particularly for landboarding. Instead, start investing in DP kites. Yes, I know the $$$$ consequences. The thing with FB vs DP when hooked in to a harness is the stark differences in the way the kites handle shifting wind conditions like gusts and swirls. Hooked in on a board with a stropped set of handles with a FB kite up in the air is asking for sudden and unexpected surges in power. Predictable but unpleasant results will follow.

I just noticed that you have an HQ Apex III in a larger size - so it looks like you have a DP option as well. Means you probably also have a harness. You're on your way!

Good stuff - keep it up! :D

wolphy - 28-8-2015 at 05:54 AM

Windstruck, you are on the money. I did buy Apex III (arriving Saturday!!!) and I do have a harness. I have tried an 8m Ozone on that field already, and it was really cool... I will give the handles a try tonight. :)

ssayre - 28-8-2015 at 05:54 AM

agree with all above. I like your paved spot. Smooth surface goes a long way. handles allow for brake turns which will allow you to utilize the power more effectively and avoid the edge of the window power loss. Spend some time static on handles and develop that muscle memory. shouldn't take more than a couple hours to be proficient with handles. just make sure you get used to flying with forefinger over power line and keep bottom of handles pointed towards kite and make sure brake lines are loose to start and tune as needed for brake turn. natural tendency for everyone starting on handles is to unknowingly pull brakes on too much when turning and stall kite. learning 4 line will go a long way to understanding how to use your depower. personally, I hate kite killers and have never used them unless I was too close to downwind obstacles and flying in high wind. killers just added frustration for me when learning. of course this is highly debated. we haven't had a good kite killer debate in awhile ;) bring it haters :)

wolphy - 28-8-2015 at 06:11 AM

I wouldn't dream of going without kite killers... for now. :D

I do wish there was a good sond or grass area for me to use nearby, but this paved land is the most realistic at the moment. :(

3shot - 28-8-2015 at 06:58 AM

Kite killers? I've seen many of Noob FBs up in the trees.. Lol

abkayak - 28-8-2015 at 07:03 AM

i use to be a big fan of kS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-s, loved the secure feeling of them tight on my wrist and wouldnt fly fb w/out them...then the death spiral thing happened when i let go and i was just along for the ride till i got them off my wrists...it was the slowest thing you could ever imagine ...and the few times they got wrapped in the harness or caught on whatever while i was in the bug really changed my mind....if its blowin hard i'd rather lose the kite...if i was on asphalt i would never have them on
thats just me

Windstruck - 28-8-2015 at 07:11 AM

Kite killers? I needed them at first but always hated them. I got super man'd a few times even with them in the beginning (stubborn? more like stupid). Only thing worse than kite killers was kite killers with a strop. Now that used to screw me up. Good in the beginning though, I'm a big believer in killers for those starting out. As those with more time under their belts with FB/handles know it is almost always possible to control things with proper braking, flying, kite size choice, etc. Not to mention that a lot (but not all) of gusts hit you moments before they hit the kite (you are, after all, upwind of the kite) giving you time to anticipate the oncoming power surge.

When I was green none of this was ingrained yet and kite killers saved me from loosing my kite any number of times. :cool:

pongnut - 28-8-2015 at 08:01 AM

Good start wolphy! Looks like you could have used an extra 5mph to your wind that evening. Let us know how trying this on handles works out - should be a little easier to put the kite where you want it. Hopping the board around is good - keep that. I wouldn't worry too much about returning to your starting point yet, learning both kite AND board is hard enough. The better you can fly the kite though, the easier it will be to focus on board management and direction and maintaining tension on the lines. Just like about anything, practice makes perfect, so keep at it and things will start falling into place.

ssayre - 28-8-2015 at 09:20 AM

Quote: Originally posted by abkayak  
i use to be a big fan of kS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-s, loved the secure feeling of them tight on my wrist and wouldnt fly fb w/out them...then the death spiral thing happened when i let go and i was just along for the ride till i got them off my wrists...it was the slowest thing you could ever imagine ...and the few times they got wrapped in the harness or caught on whatever while i was in the bug really changed my mind....if its blowin hard i'd rather lose the kite...if i was on asphalt i would never have them on
thats just me


Were you using the blade when that happened? I've flown a few fixed bridles but the blades i have owned seem to not want to land even with full brakes applied. On a couple of occasions I had to let go just trying to land or they flip, power up backwards, then really power up when corrected. Very stubborn kites.

abkayak - 28-8-2015 at 10:14 AM

dont think i ever had kS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-s on the blade...this was during 3m times and upper 20's...once these kite gets angry and are bouncing all around they really seem to get very mean:D

wolphy - 29-8-2015 at 08:37 PM

Quote: Originally posted by pongnut  
Let us know how trying this on handles works out - should be a little easier to put the kite where you want it.


Went for it yesterday. The wind was very low at first, < 5 knots, but there were periods of longer gusts going up higher, and so I launched. I already had tried handles before, but now following the advice from this thread, I also put my index fingers over the control lines. Which was very helpful.

I either made the break lines too loose or do not know how to use them well yet, because as I was gaining speed downwind, I had to use Kite Killers way too often. And the lines kept twisting around at that.

Riding downwind got me a bit far from where I started, and pulling the kite back in the air with the board was not ideal, so I learned how to go back upwind pretty effectively (ok, I knew the theory...)

Finally, at the end trying to catch a last gust to get me to my finish point, I caught it with my board's wheel sitting in a small pot hole, leading to a fall with a hurting heap and some sheen scratches from the board - nothing that will stop me from trying out my new Apex tomorrow!

Windstruck - 30-8-2015 at 06:46 PM

I bet once you get a taste of DP from atop your board you won't be looking back.... ;)

ssayre - 30-8-2015 at 07:00 PM

If you haven't watched John's videos, check them out. pretty much taught me everything to get started back when I first started.



wolphy - 31-8-2015 at 08:15 AM

@Windstruck, I had the pleasure of landboarding on an 8m Ozone DP, thanks @gemini6kl - and it felt very good (and made me get the Apex :D). I completely get your "getting a taste" point, as I have yet to become proficient at this size...

@ssayre, I did indeed come across this particular video - but now I am subscribing to his entire feed and will watch them. I have previously gone through Progression and Drill 1 land-boarding DVDs as my primary educational source. :) I DOOO wish there were nicely trimmed large open areas of grass around where I live, like in the videos!!!