Power Kite Forum - Seatbelt / Hotwire / AQR

Don't know if bigkid aqr would work because your a$s has to leave seat to be deployed which is opposite of hotwire or seatbelted in

HaHa, your a$$ only has to leave the seat a couple inches. Unless you want more. :lol:

This all depends on what you want to do in or out of the buggy.Progressive Industries SSP-50X Portable RV Surge Protector
Can't use the hot wire in lite to no wind. You have to hot launch let kite.
Kite harnesses are for kites, other styles are for other activities, rock climbing, fall protection, race car driving, etc. somehow you have to fix the hardest to a solid object.
My AQR is for those that don't want to get hurt.
In any decision you make, they all have pro's and con's. I know for a fact that an AQR will give my loved ones the reasurance I will be able to drive home after a day of buggy riding no mater what wind, kite size, area or unknown circumstance that could possibly arise.

abkayak - 4-12-2015 at 01:19 PM

i see where your coming from here...gotta admit race car belt does make some sense
the anti-sub might be overkill??...yes on the quick release

ssayre - 4-12-2015 at 01:33 PM

for what it's worth. I wouldn't consider using a fixed bridle with a hotwire. I also wouldn't consider using a fixed bridle without a bigkid aqr.

I hotwire with peak and stars which are much much more friendly than even a low ar fixed bridle. with that said it's still not without risk.

John Holgate - 4-12-2015 at 03:19 PM

Here's a few pro's and con's I've noticed when using either seatbelt or hotwire. I used to use the seatbelt pretty regularly till I put the Vmax on my head then went back to not being hooked in. Sometime later after using the Nasa Stars a lot, I tried hotwiring to eliminate the big side pull on my harness for long runs - works brilliantly. I don't use it all the time and I only use it with kites that generally are not lifty and pretty docile.

Possibly best of all are the buggy seats like those in the Libre Majestic. Apexx Extreme and GT rapid that allow you to lock yourself in with a bit of leg pressure but can release you if you relax.

If you go fixed bridle, make sure you run a quick release on it. I don't have any problem hot launching in light wind with the hotwire - I can push the buggy backwards a bit for some extra tension. If you launch from the buggy, make sure the buggy is nearly facing the kite.

Seatbelt.

Advantages: Don't have to be in the buggy to launch.
Easy to fasten up (or should be) and simple.
Prevents accidental OBE.

Disadvantage: If you turtle it, everything goes over and you end up with buggy on your head and perhaps no view of the kite. (done that).
Kite load still on harness.
If you launch outside the buggy, then get in and do your belt up, you have to shift concentration away from the kite while fiddling with belt- which
can lead to a sudden OBE. (done that, too!).

Hotwire.

Advantages: Don't need a harness.
No load on harness or body.
Great for long trips.

Disadvantages: Have to hook in while seated then launch from the buggy.
If you turtle it, same deal as above.
Fiddly to hook up depending on how you rig it.
Ability to 'feel' what the kite is doing is reduced......or different, you get used to it. But you don't feel the power in the same way and can suddenly find yourself on two wheels.

AQR.

never used one so this is my best guess!

Advantages: Best safety by far.

Disadvantages: Load still on harness.

WELDNGOD - 4-12-2015 at 03:32 PM

I would deffo NOT use that seat belt. HUGE MISTAKE. A hot wire is not so bad, but I would not use it with a buggy that doesn't weigh close to 100lbs. I personally think Jeff's rig is the bomb. But I still fly hotwired,but only in stable , laminar wind coming onshore. If it is Janky wind or subject to gusts I will just use my harness. And those that have known me a while, know that I did flip my 131 lb. buggy while hotwired and broke my shoulder to the point of needing surgery to repair. However, It was not the wind but my choice of terrain. I hit a large clump of dune grass in a downloop powerslide and flipped. But like I said ,it was entirely my poor choice of terrain.

Here's the video https://vimeo.com/16678110

WELDNGOD - 4-12-2015 at 03:42 PM

John as I understand the AQR ,it lets it all go . No load on harness.

ssayre - 4-12-2015 at 03:45 PM

Quote: Originally posted by WELDNGOD

I would deffo NOT use that seat belt. HUGE MISTAKE. A hot wire is not so bad, but I would not use it with a buggy that doesn't weigh close to 100lbs. I personally think Jeff's rig is the bomb. But I still fly hotwired,but only in stable , laminar wind coming onshore. If it is Janky wind or subject to gusts I will just use my harness. And those that have known me a while, know that I did flip my 131 lb. buggy while hotwired and broke my shoulder to the point of needing surgery to repair. However, It was not the wind but my choice of terrain. I hit a large clump of dune grass in a downloop powerslide and flipped. But like I said ,it was entirely my poor choice of terrain.

Here's the video https://vimeo.com/16678110

I use hotwire on a lightweight pl buggy. 28 lbs I think. However, I weigh 235 so I've got that going for me.

WELDNGOD - 4-12-2015 at 04:34 PM

Good thing Sean, if you weighed 125 it would be sketchy at best.

wider axle can help some though.

ssayre - 4-12-2015 at 06:35 PM

Volock, I haven't tried using harness then using seatbelt. Seems like to many things but I could be totally wrong. I'm sure you saw my latest hotwire set up. 2 straps straight across attached to rails. I think Donnie's is similar. I tried a 3 strap set up and didn't care for it. 2 short straps to each siderail keeps the tow point low and close to body. You want tow point as low and close and tight as possible to keep cog low. When I was on my dirt site, I could whip the kite around and slide with impunity with no discomfort at all. It was really cool. dry grass on bumpy ground I have to be a little more mindful of flipping. I view having a light buggy as both advantage and disadvantage with hotwire. Maybe more likely to turtle (which I haven't yet. must not be trying hard enough) but less damaging to you when it does then heavy buggy. However, my point of view is much narrower than most since I only have experience with one type of buggy.

Also, I still go back and forth between hotwire and harness. Nice having variety. btw, the hotwire doesn't interfere when not in use and riding with harness so straps can remain

I forgot to mention. When chicken loop released, kite is free from buggy and your free from both entirely. My leash is attached to buggy.

Some good reading here. http://popeyethewelder.com/kite-buggy-questions-and-answers/...

volock - 4-12-2015 at 10:23 PM

Thanks for the response everyone, yeah there's a lot of opinions and varying information on hotwiring and seat belts... And an infuriating little in terms of pictures/up close of those free-styling and their seat belts. The lack of commercially available solutions has me puzzled, as it can't all come down to liability... I've crawled through about every post here that has seat belt or hotwire mentioned, everything on Popeye's site, and plenty of threads other places. I'll get through more detailed responses tomorrow...

I can't see hotwiring with my wind conditions and normal flying spots, regardless of Depower or FB. My real debate is currently whether to go with a seat belt or not, and what the current common solutions for one are, given the lack of commercially available. I want to leave my option open somewhat with what I decide for a seat belt setup, so that I might convert to hotwire in the future if I wanted to try it (say NABX or a nice clean beach wind I'm constantly lied to about existing). I'm definitely planning on figuring out a seat belt setup of some sort, and I just had to have a buggy that's not very popular, so it's harder to directly steal ideas.

As for the race harness, those are the actual harnesses a local go-kart place uses, and I have friends who race regularly. The harnesses can't be used to race after so long, and so they destroy the buckle mechanism, and throw out the straps (which are each date labeled for certification). I can go grab the used straps for free, which are straps that are already designed to support a large load (and dynamic shock), and to loop around a pole for fitment anyway, so it's fairly close to off the rack. My thought was to use a Wichard as the closure mechanism. Basically they destroy from ever using the strap and buckle on the right hand side, then just toss the rest. Here's a closeup:

My thought was it was hardware and straps closer to being designed for the use we're going for.

As to turtling, my buggy isn't light, around 75-80lbs, and I've managed to flip it twice so far, luckily without any real injury (I broke my glasses one of the times, and got a small scratch on my forehead from them getting stuck at my helmet). Both times I've flipped the buggy hasn't really moved off of me. One was while stopped, pointed upwind (literally about to climb out, one foot off the pegs), and a gust of wind came at about 90 degrees from where it had been, so instead of a side window kite landing, I got pulled over the side. The other was my own fault, flying a friend's kite (HQ Montana) and when it went to lift me, I screwed up. I feel like I slide around a bit more than I want in the upwards direction when doing some moves, so am debating the seat belt for feeling more secure/like I stay in one place doing those at speed. I mostly fly on grass (with a couple abrupt pavement strips in the middle), and so end up needing a bit more power to slide out than I would sand. I'm not too afraid of the buggy on top of me, I still way about 3x what it does, and from my experience upside down, the backrest and then my helmet basically mean I'm more under it than it resting on me. Funny enough, I never feel like I'm going to pop out when I tried the Deadman's turn.

BigKid: Was wondering if there's anything you'd change or like different than the last time you posted your AQR setup? I like the idea of it, and definitely would prefer to error on the cautious side of more safety equipment.

John Holgate: Well put. I usually launch while in the buggy, and have had a few more OBEs than I'd like, despite not using lifty kites. I seem to be able to hold a good amount of side load, but any big bump or upward lift, and I'm out of there. I tried angling the side rails in more, but couldn't get it usable to help with the issue. Definitely thinking seatbelt to help hold me in place better in terms of upward OBEs (knock on wood, I've not done the one out the back of the buggy yet). I think the actual issue partially lies in seat depth, but I end up hitting ground too much if I lower it much (which I know can be solved by taller wheels, though mine aren't tiny as it is)

Ssayre - I have followed your build and comments on it. I had concerns as to the dynamic shock load onto the original straps (which given what you replaced it with, is withdrawn). I'm leaning toward three strap as it's easier to have and not use, then want and not have. From reading RideLikeAGirl's stuff, she suggests jumps and certain moves are easier to learn on a 3 point, before going back to 2 (and more stable/less likely to have an extra axis of rotation).

WeldNGod: I have to defer to your experience, as you're much more so than me. I actually was thinking of that very linked video before posting this... However I was staring at video/picture of someone in a stopped buggy hit by a huge gust of wind, that got rolled more than once, who was hotwired. Whole thing happened so fast, I had to slow it down to figure out what happened, can't imagine having any time to react being in the bug.

I'm more than willing to take any more input. I'm not planning on making a decision or trying anything anytime soon (in the next couple months for sure). Not until I'm with cleaner wind, or have more hours in my buggy (or ideally both).

bigkid - 5-12-2015 at 06:34 AM

Volock,
I spent over 2 years and thousands of $$ to address the issue of preventing any OBE in the future. I have put my oldest son through many trips into the garage ceiling at the business end of a high speed winch while testing dozens of quick release ideas. We did the hot wire idea and a few other stay in the buggy ideas and none of them guaranteed I wouldn't get hurt. Due to the extent of severity of damage to my body, and being so close to death because of the injury, my wife would not allow me to go out in any way and fly a kite let alone sit in the buggy. The only way I could go out again and play, was to guarantee that I would be able to drive home afterwards.
Would I change anything about my AQR setup? Nope, I can say with out any doubt whatsoever, I will never be hurt in or out of the buggy again.

WELDNGOD - 5-12-2015 at 06:56 AM

Volock ,exactly what is it you wish to do? I don't recommend buggy jumping at all, especially a commercially available ones.As they are not built for that at all. Now when you are sponsored by PL you don't have to worry cause I'm sure they get one heck of a discount on them.
If you are in janky wind you don't want to be secured in the buggy.In fact ,I would fly by fingertips so if I get gusted ,it snatches it from my grip. I feel you are preparing a recipe for disaster. Sounds to me like you need to just learn in a harness. And you would be right, when the fecal matter hits the rotary device. THERE IS NOTHING YOU CAN DO. It's over before you can even drop the handles.
My hotwire set-up is made from 3/16" dyneema line from west marine. I eye spliced each end. On one end is a stainless ring. I double choke around the siderails and connect a torsion wichard to a holt allen clam style block which the strop runs through. Whatever you choose to do,fly safe.

WELDNGOD - 5-12-2015 at 07:04 AM

It seems carl and others in europe go for the 3 point seatbelt to hold them in buggy but wear harness for attaching kite.

Something you have to remember is these folks fly in laminar wind on a huge beach. It is much safer to be belted in there. In non-laminar wind it is going to be risky.

ssayre - 5-12-2015 at 07:07 AM

"My hotwire set-up is made from 3/16" dyneema line from west marine."

Does your west marine stock stock dyneema or did you order from them? Our local west marine does not stock dyneema, only the polyester marine rope in various thickness. Disappointing because there are lots of different projects I do spur of the moment and would like to have dyneema available without having to order.

WELDNGOD - 5-12-2015 at 07:18 AM

Wow, ours has all that is in the catalog .Red,green,blue,grey,all sizes. But I live in the Norfolk/Va. Beach area. There is more water than land around here ,and millions of boats of all types. I'm sure that makes the difference.

Windstruck - 5-12-2015 at 09:45 AM

Sean, sounds like you are near an Ill-equipped West Marine. Mine in SLC has dyneema on spools in the back of the store. Probably not a lot of colors but at least a couple of sizes.

I want to learn how to make neat loops and ends. I've seen it done on video and have seen the tools but I just haven't taken the plunge.

I wouldn't think West Marine is the only place to get dyneema. Have you checked around? Agreed it would be a pain in the seat meat to have to mail order. Good luck!

"My hotwire set-up is made from 3/16" dyneema line from west marine."

Does your west marine stock stock dyneema or did you order from them? Our local west marine does not stock dyneema, only the polyester marine rope in various thickness. Disappointing because there are lots of different projects I do spur of the moment and would like to have dyneema available without having to order.

WELDNGOD - 5-12-2015 at 10:06 AM

What is wrong w/ online order. You could order it today and I bet by Fri. it would be in your mailbox . Or you could wait for infinity for your store to get it. I'm not seeing the logic here.

WELDNGOD - 5-12-2015 at 10:13 AM

http://www.westmarine.com/buy/samson-rope--amsteel-blue-dyne...

3/16" $1.08 a ft.

volock - 5-12-2015 at 10:17 AM

Volock,
I spent over 2 years and thousands of $$ to address the issue of preventing any OBE in the future. I have put my oldest son through many trips into the garage ceiling at the business end of a high speed winch while testing dozens of quick release ideas. We did the hot wire idea and a few other stay in the buggy ideas and none of them guaranteed I wouldn't get hurt. Due to the extent of severity of damage to my body, and being so close to death because of the injury, my wife would not allow me to go out in any way and fly a kite let alone sit in the buggy. The only way I could go out again and play, was to guarantee that I would be able to drive home afterwards.
Would I change anything about my AQR setup? Nope, I can say with out any doubt whatsoever, I will never be hurt in or out of the buggy again.

Thanks. I know you spent a lot of time developing it and testing ideas. I figured I'd ask, as sometimes those small tweaks that happen over time, don't always get posted by people. I can't imagine volunteering to let my dad send me into the garage ceiling with a high speed winch, so more power and credit to your son. Thanks for the useful info.

WELDNGOD - 5-12-2015 at 10:18 AM

http://www.murrays.com/K-L.html another place I have shopped @

ssayre - 5-12-2015 at 10:33 AM

Quote: Originally posted by WELDNGOD

What is wrong w/ online order. You could order it today and I bet by Fri. it would be in your mailbox . Or you could wait for infinity for your store to get it. I'm not seeing the logic here.

I admit, there is no logic in waiting on a local source that's never going to happen. I need to just order from west marine. I've been on their site and just can't bring myself to order it. I would probably have already purchased some for $2 per foot if the local store had it just on an impulse buy. Ordering is much more deliberate and planned. I'm not very good at that. :D

3shot - 5-12-2015 at 07:39 PM

We have a massive West Marine just down the road. Love that place. Was nice coming out with everything needed for the bigkid AQR :thumbup:

Still many thanks for your time and efforts on developing that Jeff!!!

Hotwire - lovin' it!

Windstruck - 28-7-2016 at 03:19 PM

I had my first real power kite session today since my accident a couple of weeks ago. I hotwired my buggy and flew an 8m Ozone Access V6 with Re-Ride. I was a tad underpowered but that was just fine for my first time back in the saddle and my first time hotwiring.

As others have discussed, hotwiring seems to have its pluses and minuses. I'm netting out after this first session strongly in the pluses > minuses by a long shot. I loved not having to wear a harness and having the load on the buggy instead of on me (other than through my arms keeping the DP bar pulled in which is pretty light force all in all). One minus (or maybe just something I've got to get used to) is that the pull now comes from up on the rail so it seems a touch easier to get tipped over towards the kite if you are sideways to the wind and get a strong increase in kite power. No big deal, that, just nudge the nose downwind and everything gets back in line. I did lift my upwind back wheel twice but it was pretty mellow.

The Re-Ride system made ending the session a piece of cake! When I wanted to finish I just turned the buggy upwind to roll to a stop and then manually pulled the 5th line in through the chicken loop until the kite crumpled to the ground. Nice!

I tossed a couple of pictures of V-1.0 Windstruck hotwiring below. I've already refined my setup since these pictures and will continue to tweak things until I feel dialed in. This set up was more or less "proof of concept" rigging.

Great thanks is extended to our great PKF "family" for all the good hotwiring discussion and photos that steered me in this new direction. :karate:

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WELDNGOD - 28-7-2016 at 04:19 PM

Hey Bro, I want you to watch this https://vimeo.com/16678110 I was hotwired.... My buggy has a 5 ft. axle and weighs 131 pounds... I was out of work for 5 months... Had a surgery to repair the humeral head in my shoulder. Take it real careful

ssayre - 28-7-2016 at 04:36 PM

Don't listen to wg :evil:

Just kidding of course but I really like Hotwire. It's a blast and a new way of riding. Worth doing just for the experience IMO. It picks up your back wheel because you can hold more power. Placement front to back is critical but if it's picking up your back wheel and not wanting to slide the front around than it sounds like you have it in a good position. My rear end usually slides before picking up a wheel. Maybe it's your big foots making your center of gravity a little higher than mine. Either I'm always pumped to see somebody trying it.

I consider safer in SOME ways. since the harness is t pulling me to the side, I feel like I can counter weight better with my body and have much better control over steering.

ssayre - 28-7-2016 at 04:38 PM

Also try and keep your tow point as tight to you and low as possible. That keeps thing from getting as tippy as well.

bigkid - 28-7-2016 at 04:39 PM

Yep what WG said^^^^^
I did the hot wire thing but decided it was bad enough with my 225 lbs crashing to the beach but add another 124lbs for the buggy?

What changed my mind was the trip over a soccer goal with me and the buggy as I slid sideways into a 55 gallon garbage can and then slid backwards into the other soccer goal before the kite got stuck on the light post.

bigkid - 28-7-2016 at 04:43 PM

Most of the hot wire setups I have seen use a floating DRing. That allows the CG to move from side to side reducing the top heavy issue and puts the pull on the side rail. But if you feel safe....

abkayak - 28-7-2016 at 05:47 PM

Nahh...but good luck w/ that
Primus sucks

BeamerBob - 28-7-2016 at 11:19 PM

I've always thought too much about how bad things could go wrong with a Hotwire. I've had bruises and abrasions from my harness after a hard day of riding so I see the benefits. Remember, a manual safety is for after the first time you hit the ground.

Windstruck - 29-7-2016 at 04:15 AM

Most of the hot wire setups I have seen use a floating DRing. That allows the CG to move from side to side reducing the top heavy issue and puts the pull on the side rail. But if you feel safe....

This comment gave me a thought and I'm going to mock up a design with a carabiner pinned to each side rail and a piece of webbing going taught from biner to biner with a ring (well some rings but bunched together) floating freely on the taught line. I'll then hook my chicken loop to the rings.

The idea here is as bigkid said with the rings going freely from side to side depending on the tack. I figure this way the rings will rest against the downwind biner and pull from that side, in a sense compressing the downwind biner as compared to tugging on the upwind biner as my V-1.0 design pictured above would do. The thought here is to reduce the high-side tipping force and drive the setup from the downwind rail.

To all of my good PKF friends sending me very well intended "Danger Will Robinson, Danger" notes, please know they are not falling on deaf ears. I am simply experimenting under controlled conditions with underpowered kites. I want to get turtled almost as little as I want to get lofted again.

I was sining the kite like crazy yesterday just to stay moving on a soccer field; I'm hardly screaming down the playa. I'm with BigKid, Beamer Bob and WG with thoughts about being hotwired in a setting such as a long fast beach run or Ivanpah, and I know ssayre has noted not liking to hotwire in sketchy wind conditions. What I'm doing now is more like Driving Miss Daisy cruising on grass just to work through some things while also keeping my bride in my life. She likes the idea of me hotwiring because of the added weight reducing the lofting issue. Yes, I hear it coming..... again I say trade offs, trade offs, trade offs; not all of this is driven by pure kiting logic.

Honestly, what sounds the safest is bigkid's FB release system. My issue is that I have all DP kites at this point and don't want to retool just for buggying since my strongest interest in this sport is in the winter on skis.

bigkid - 29-7-2016 at 04:59 AM

My AQR is able to be modified for use with the chicken loop. I have made 3 of them so far.
One more would add up to 4.....

ssayre - 29-7-2016 at 05:48 AM

I have the upmost respect for wg, bb, and bS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-s advice and warnings, however, hotwire with mid-aspect fb is a very different thing from hotwire with peaks and I assume access. Yes, no kite is 100% safe, but there is a spectrum of "safer" kites that can't be ignored. especially when flown inland. As with any activity, the approach of the person, in this case the kiter, kite choice/size, and reading conditions is going to be the deciding factor in a successful hotwire mission. Also the goals of the kiter. I just go out with the goal to have some fun and I'm not looking to push boundaries every time out. I don't track my speed and I'm not trying to set any records.

Also, the heavier the buggy, the more power you hold done, but the more dangerous it becomes in the event of a flip. I feel extremely safe with hotwire after some time spent with it. If I turtle, I have a 30 lb buggy on top of me.

Basically a flexible backrest and a hotwire was my way around getting a larger, heavier, higher side rail buggy. My side rails on the pl aren't high enough to hold me in while riding fast on bumpy ground. I always have that feeling like I'm going to get tossed out when harnessed. The hotwire is an inexpensive way to remedy a lot of the problems I was encountering and a way to hold down a little more power without having to make expensive modifications to the buggy or replacing it altogether. Not saying it turns it into a "good" buggy that will handle real speed, but it does help with staying planted in my seat while traversing my rough terrain.

hiaguy - 29-7-2016 at 05:50 AM

Honestly, what sounds the safest is bigkid's FB release system. My issue is that I have all DP kites at this point and don't want to retool just for buggying since my strongest interest in this sport is in the winter on skis.

My AQR is able to be modified for use with the chicken loop. I have made 3 of them so far.
One more would add up to 4.....

Being one of the three, I'd like to be the first to invite you to this (so far) exclusive club :bigok:

Seriously, everything is great, right up to the point that it isn't. And it's at that point that you realize "D4MN, I shoulda' puled the safety!" I don't see how there is a difference between getting lofted and turtled - except perhaps the strength of the gust that does it. And THAT is the $64 question, isn't it.
I've got FBs and DPs and the setup works equally well.
Full disclosure: The only time I have had a problem with the AQR is in my home field - there's a swale that leaves me light in the buggy, and the AQR has considered that to be the start of an OBE. Better safe than the alternatives...

Only 74 days to go to WBB! :wee:

Windstruck - 29-7-2016 at 06:02 AM

Quote: Originally posted by hiaguy

My AQR is able to be modified for use with the chicken loop. I have made 3 of them so far.
One more would add up to 4.....

I sent a U2U to BigKid just a couple of minutes ago about this.... :saint:

ssayre - 29-7-2016 at 06:10 AM

umm...this is a hotwire thread. AQR nerds should be posting in a aqr thread. :P

bigkid - 29-7-2016 at 06:51 AM

U2u returned
Yep I trashed this hotwire post, I should be shot.

ssayre - 29-7-2016 at 07:05 AM

U2u returned
Yep I trashed this hotwire post, I should be shot.

You know I just like to ruffle your feathers.

Windstruck - 29-7-2016 at 08:13 AM

My AQR is able to be modified for use with the chicken loop. I have made 3 of them so far.
One more would add up to 4.....

Jeff (BigKid) and I had a great phone conversation earlier this morning and it now appears that there will be four AQRs out there. Doh! :karate:

skimtwashington - 29-7-2016 at 11:04 AM

Quote:

...it now appears that there will be four AQRs out there

This will make the wife more at ease too...

4 and counting of 'the best AQR'....hmmnnn.... these are almost getting popular...

Windstruck - 29-7-2016 at 02:49 PM

umm...this is a hotwire thread. AQR nerds should be posting in a aqr thread. :P

umm...this is a Seatbelt / Hotwire / AQR thread as started by the venerable Volock. Seems us AQR nerds are more than welcome. :moon:

bigkid - 29-7-2016 at 03:18 PM

umm...this is a hotwire thread. AQR nerds should be posting in a aqr thread. :P

umm...this is a Seatbelt / Hotwire / AQR thread as started by the venerable Volock. Seems us AQR nerds are more than welcome. :moon:

Nerds, hahaha
I've been called a lot of things, but never a nerd. Sounds like terd that was trying to be incognito.

ssayre - 29-7-2016 at 03:50 PM

umm...this is a hotwire thread. AQR nerds should be posting in a aqr thread. :P

umm...this is a Seatbelt / Hotwire / AQR thread as started by the venerable Volock. Seems us AQR nerds are more than welcome. :moon:

Nerds, hahaha
I've been called a lot of things, but never a nerd. Sounds like terd that was trying to be incognito.

lol, I guess I need to read the thread titles more carefully. I didn't notice the aqr in the title until you guys corrected me. Jokes on me as usual

Windstruck - 29-7-2016 at 04:16 PM

Quote: Originally posted by skimtwashington

Quote:

...it now appears that there will be four AQRs out there

This will make the wife more at ease too...

4 and counting of 'the best AQR'....hmmnnn.... these are almost getting popular...

Outstanding video choice Tucker! It had me right up to the point where they were cutting back and forth between football players doing up-downs and all-male group shower scenes. :barf:

Windstruck - 29-7-2016 at 04:19 PM

Jokes on me as usual

nothin' but love for ya brotha! :lol:

volock - 29-7-2016 at 04:30 PM

umm...this is a hotwire thread. AQR nerds should be posting in a aqr thread. :P

umm...this is a Seatbelt / Hotwire / AQR thread as started by the venerable Volock. Seems us AQR nerds are more than welcome. :moon:

Wait my name is mentioned and nerd? Damn, here I thought I'd hidden my math degrees and nerd cred from all of you. I eventually will be reviving aforementioned thread once I get cleared to kite again, to show off what I put together, but until then got to let my femur finish healing, and not test it out.

Running proved far more accident inducing than kiting. Subsequently it may be time to give such up, with the needed exception of chasing the kite down field when it pulls out my stake.

EDIT: Just read back to the first page of the thread and realized it was mine XD. Talk about failing there.

John Holgate - 29-7-2016 at 06:02 PM

Steve, when you make up the 'floating ring' mod for the hotwire, make sure you can easily release that strap with one hand. Things can be mighty confusing if/when you're upside down and you need to make sure you can release the kite and yourself quickly. Hotwiring is one instance where I see a small roll bar on the back axle being a good head/neck saver in the event of inverted reality.

One thing you might find with having a 'floating ring' is when you change direction, the ring may slide pretty violently to the other side - watch for anything that could get jammed in it.

Windstruck - 29-7-2016 at 07:11 PM

Quote: Originally posted by John Holgate

Steve, when you make up the 'floating ring' mod for the hotwire, make sure you can easily release that strap with one hand. Things can be mighty confusing if/when you're upside down and you need to make sure you can release the kite and yourself quickly. Hotwiring is one instance where I see a small roll bar on the back axle being a good head/neck saver in the event of inverted reality.

One thing you might find with having a 'floating ring' is when you change direction, the ring may slide pretty violently to the other side - watch for anything that could get jammed in it.

All great points John. I spoke with Jeff (BigKid) earlier today and he is going to make me his 4th AQR. I may mess around with the Hotwire a bit but the AQR sounds like the ticket.

soliver - 30-7-2016 at 11:19 AM

Jeff's AQR is great, but I can tell you from experience that the important part of Jeff's AQR is to make sure you actually use and hook into the "A" (Auto) portion... failure to do so from thinking "Oh, I can just yank the QR if I get into trouble" doesn't actually work... I can tell you that this is a painful mistake. :no:

Ask my podiatrist how I know :smilegrin:

ssayre - 30-7-2016 at 11:29 AM

Dang Spencer, you did do a number that foot

Windstruck - 30-7-2016 at 11:33 AM

Quote: Originally posted by soliver

Jeff's AQR is great, but I can tell you from experience that the important part of Jeff's AQR is to make sure you actually use and hook into the "A" (Auto) portion... failure to do so from thinking "Oh, I can just yank the QR if I get into trouble" doesn't actually work... I can tell you that this is a painful mistake. :no:

Ask my podiatrist how I know :smilegrin:

Ortho porn! :o

Are you saying you had Jeff's AQR installed but just didn't use it that day, or were you saying that you (foolishly) thought you could pop the chicken loop before anything bad happened?

I'm (fortunately) living proof too that "hope is not a strategy" and that relying on pulling the rip cord is hardly a safety valve at all. When I retrieved all my gear there was my chicken loop still intact.

soliver - 30-7-2016 at 12:25 PM

First off, FYI it was FB on a strop... but Yes,... I got into the bad habit of being comfortable hooked in... In my poopy lull infused wind, it was a pain to unhook from the buggy every time the kite landed wrong and I had to go reset it, (which was VERY often) then come back hook the QR back up etc etc etc... So I eventually just stopped using the "Auto" part of the AQR for convenience and thought I'd be fast enough to yank the QR if I needed (or just pull the brakes). All rationalizations that did not hold up in the end. I proved myself wrong that day and ended up with that scar on my left foot to remind me of it.

That day in particular, I was doing a lunch break session and was extra stupid, because A. I was obsessed with hitting a speed, so that was my main focus, not so much safety, B. I was hurrying so I ignored the conditions and C. I was in a hurry so I ignored that little voice that told me I ought hook the "Auto" back up... plus like I said I was just too comfortable hooked in so I didn't even think twice about getting out there and just ripping it up... instead I ended up in the air too far off the ground and didn't know how best to respond and I pulled the brakes and hit the ground REALLY hard.

I'm (fortunately) living proof too that "hope is not a strategy" and that relying on pulling the rip cord is hardly a safety valve at all. When I retrieved all my gear there was my chicken loop still intact.

You are indeed blessed my friend.

soliver - 30-7-2016 at 12:37 PM

So in short, the lesson learned is this: Safety gear is most safe when you actually use it. :lol:

Streamlined AQR

Windstruck - 8-8-2016 at 05:45 PM

I recently acquired an AQR system from Jeff (BigKid). It is really nicely put together. There was wonderful wind today but it blew in completely the wrong direction so no maiden voyage today!

I am going to initially use the system with DP kites and as such will be looping a chicken loop through the mechanism, not a strop line. One thing I was concerned about was that if I strung the chicken loop through the pulley mechanism that I would build a few extra inches into the system, making my arms really outstretched when I had the bar fully out in DP. To get around this I'm considering skipping the pulley mechanism altogether and just run the chicken loop directly through the snap shackle as show in the second picture.

Thoughts on this?

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bigkid - 8-8-2016 at 06:15 PM

Looks like a killer setup. That's not a good term to use, looks like a well thought out and quality setup. Yeah that sounds better.:D

ssayre - 8-8-2016 at 06:19 PM

Jeff, I thought you used a wichard style release? Or is this for DP? I might be remembering wrong from your thread.

hiaguy - 8-8-2016 at 06:21 PM

Steve, I've flown it without the block a couple of times, but haven't really had it tested.
My only concern is the possibility of the plastic chicken loop being "stuck" to the snapshakle (preventing a quick slide out) versus the hard metal of the block sliding off cleanly. Seems that not using the block adds an additional pain point.
Either way, I appreciate the added safety that it provides.
(Yes, Jeff, it is. Thanks!)

bigkid - 8-8-2016 at 06:26 PM

It's a snap shackle. The whichard is not reliable and WILL NOT OPEN IF UPSIDE DOWN. Besides its to hard to connect to a beaner for release.

BeamerBob - 8-8-2016 at 11:18 PM

Buggiers from all over the world avoid the pin style snap shackle because it is prone to jam from sand or other small particles. I had one as my first manual release and replaced it with a Wichard. The Wichard is somewhat symmetrical to release but this can be remedied by attaching something like the tip of a fid to the release line which forces the bail open no matter the pull direction. I've seen double handkerchiefs used as well but that wouldn't work well on an auto release. A "biner" or carabiner could be attached. I used a screw shackle on my second setup.

I applaud Jeffs efforts to make an automatic release for our community. Remember, a manual release is for after the first impact.

bigkid - 9-8-2016 at 05:21 AM

The wichard has an up side and a down side. You have to pull the string in the correct direction or it will not open. If it is setup for you to pull down with your right hand, try to pull it up with your right hand and it won't open.
As for the snap shackle jamming and getting stuff in it to the point where it doesn't open , there are different grades of quality. You can buy the $7.00 ones or spend $78.00 for the quality ones. I prefer the more expensive models. Or you could just keep the thing clean, or not.

Windstruck - 9-8-2016 at 06:46 AM

Quote: Originally posted by hiaguy

Steve, I've flown it without the block a couple of times, but haven't really had it tested.
My only concern is the possibility of the plastic chicken loop being "stuck" to the snapshakle (preventing a quick slide out) versus the hard metal of the block sliding off cleanly. Seems that not using the block adds an additional pain point.
Either way, I appreciate the added safety that it provides.
(Yes, Jeff, it is. Thanks!)

Thanks for your feedback Howard; greatly appreciated. I too thought about the "sticky" plastic/metal interface. The good news here I think lies in how this particular $78 snap shackle opens. When triggered it swings open so wide that there doesn't seem to be anything to hold back the separation of the chicken loop from the shackle. There would seemingly be a distractive force involved, so even if the plastic "stuck" to the metal I think they would separate without appreciable resistance.

I will hopefully get my maiden run this Friday or over the weekend. Jeff insists (and he's right of course) that I've got to test it. I figure I'll get going on a nice run down the middle of a grass field and send the kite high and backwards and pull in the DP bar. Gulp. :sniff:

ssayre - 9-8-2016 at 06:59 AM

Just don't forget to let go of the bar :D

Windstruck - 9-8-2016 at 08:36 AM

Just don't forget to let go of the bar :D

You mean like when I went Aquaman on my first waterskiing outing? I must have submarined for at least 50 feet before it occurred to me that my best option might be to part ways with the tow bar. Hey, I was 15 so most certainly young and stupid. Now I'm simply 55 and..... :karate:

soliver - 11-8-2016 at 06:14 AM