Sinking my teeth in

Quote: Originally posted by Memopad

Thanks for the welcome. I guess this was a fairly typical "nice" day for the winter up here, especially getting later in the season. Typical forcast when it isn't nuking is in the 5-10mph, maybe 15 tops range. Went a front or other weather is moving through the area, it's in the 20-25+ range. Forcast for tomorrow is gusts up to 35mph for example. So not much in between the two ranges, it's either light or heavy. This is partly why I think the 10m may have been the wrong kite for me, because it's probably a little small for the light air days, and a little big for the 20's? Uploading some videos to youtube stand by...

Nah, there will be plenty of days for it imo. Just wait and see. Usually it takes 3 kites to cover a decent wind range.

Glad your digging it and welcome.

Quote: Originally posted by Memopad

Thanks for the welcome. I guess this was a fairly typical "nice" day for the winter up here, especially getting later in the season. Typical forcast when it isn't nuking is in the 5-10mph, maybe 15 tops range. Went a front or other weather is moving through the area, it's in the 20-25+ range. Forcast for tomorrow is gusts up to 35mph for example. So not much in between the two ranges, it's either light or heavy. This is partly why I think the 10m may have been the wrong kite for me, because it's probably a little small for the light air days, and a little big for the 20's? Uploading some videos to youtube stand by...

Glad to hear you are enjoying Snowkiting. I agree, total hoot. For winds in the 5-10 range you may want to take a gander at the 12m Flysurfer Peak-2. Particularly for the low end of that wind range. The P2 is a so-called single skin and as such will loft in extremely light wind and start tugging you along in just a little more.

I hear you about the larger kites turning a little more slowly. A lot of us that have Access kites have the smaller sizes (4 and 6m) reserving them for really high wind days when we want rock solid stability. I've never flown a 10m Access but I suspect it is sort of "dead in bed". That "deadness""is quite welcome when it's nuking but probably a little too tame in lighter winds as would be appropriate with a 10m kite.

You have the V6 Access so you know all about Re-Ride. I LOVE Re-Ride and wish all my DP kites had it. If you don't want to go the route of the Peaks then you could also consider a larger Frenzy V10 or Summit V3, both also with re-ride. As you can see from my Auto-Signature I've got both. The 15m Summit V3 has a lot of spunk for a kite that size and turns more quickly than my 12m Peak2. Not surprising considering the AR differences between the two. The thing I've found, however, is the 15m Summit needs a fair amount of wind to launch, much more than the 12m Peak-2.

Good luck with your quest!

Quote: Originally posted by abkayak

Is that what they call snow in Michigan? Pretty liberal use of the word IMO We call that boilerplate or Hunter Mt over here...my teeth hurt watching That 10 seemed alright you almost had a park and ride going but always buy more kites

I'm in Manistique where it doesn't snow much at all. An hour north we can get 300+ inches in a season. Very very location dependent from lake effect off lake superior.

Usually my lake has maybe 6 inches of snow over the ice most of the winter, but last weekend it was in the 40's and rained so there was a lot of ice on top... not the best for skis.

What is a park and ride?

Quote: Originally posted by PHREERIDER

downwind you need alot of kite action and enough edge to keep lines tight, you have to use the whole window . heres a somewhat related vid , i'm on a land board but demos kite action and the back and forth edging to maintain tension ...lots of looping and high and low positions of kite action. maybe it'll help. most would consider downwind "running " a very balance dependent, as you are more up right falling from edge to edge as you go , like down hill ski actually https://vimeo.com/37769782

Awesome video, really illustrates the motion needed. Right now I'm thinking too much about flying the kite through turns to be able to turn my skis at the same time lol. I'll keep practicing.

Quote: Originally posted by Windstruck

Quote: Originally posted by Memopad   Thanks for the welcome. I guess this was a fairly typical "nice" day for the winter up here, especially getting later in the season. Typical forcast when it isn't nuking is in the 5-10mph, maybe 15 tops range. Went a front or other weather is moving through the area, it's in the 20-25+ range. Forcast for tomorrow is gusts up to 35mph for example. So not much in between the two ranges, it's either light or heavy. This is partly why I think the 10m may have been the wrong kite for me, because it's probably a little small for the light air days, and a little big for the 20's? Uploading some videos to youtube stand by... Glad to hear you are enjoying Snowkiting. I agree, total hoot. For winds in the 5-10 range you may want to take a gander at the 12m Flysurfer Peak-2. Particularly for the low end of that wind range. The P2 is a so-called single skin and as such will loft in extremely light wind and start tugging you along in just a little more. I hear you about the larger kites turning a little more slowly. A lot of us that have Access kites have the smaller sizes (4 and 6m) reserving them for really high wind days when we want rock solid stability. I've never flown a 10m Access but I suspect it is sort of "dead in bed". That "deadness""is quite welcome when it's nuking but probably a little too tame in lighter winds as would be appropriate with a 10m kite. You have the V6 Access so you know all about Re-Ride. I LOVE Re-Ride and wish all my DP kites had it. If you don't want to go the route of the Peaks then you could also consider a larger Frenzy V10 or Summit V3, both also with re-ride. As you can see from my Auto-Signature I've got both. The 15m Summit V3 has a lot of spunk for a kite that size and turns more quickly than my 12m Peak2. Not surprising considering the AR differences between the two. The thing I've found, however, is the 15m Summit needs a fair amount of wind to launch, much more than the 12m Peak-2. Good luck with your quest!

I actually have a HQ Montana 8 on the way now, picked up a 14m... the price was right. I might leave it in the bag for a while until it either snows more or I get more comfortable with kite handling.

The Access is definitely on the dead side, but mostly I've been fighting it in light winds, and I'm sure my handling is lacking in finesse.

I haven't needed to use the re-ride yet. I played with it and the safety systems first time I had it out, but it wasn't been windy enough to be needed. Today I just backed the kite down on it's trailing edge and it fell over and stayed there. I think it's gonna be a blessing when I'm landing in higher winds alone.

Quote: Originally posted by Cheddarhead

Welcome! Looks just like the stuff I ride in WI. A 14m foil would compliment your 10 nicely. The more experience you get, the more wind you will feel comfortable flying the same kite in. Those look like the same volkl p30 ski's that I own. I used to use those as my primary ski's but found something with a larger turn radius worked much better on bare ice. Found them too carvy for my taste. Thanks for sharing your vids! Your well on your way into this addiction :D

Thanks! They're volkl P40's I scored from craigslist for $50 bucks with the bindings. They appeared to be almost new! I know they're 15 year old skis, but I feel kind of bad about riding them on ice. Luckily the ice surface isn't the norm around here. The P40's are a blast at the ski hill too!

Quote: Originally posted by Windstruck

Just a note of caution. I wrote about the Frenzy and Summit before I watched your video and saw that you are Snowkiting on a frozen lake. The thing about the Frenzy and Summit is that they have a lot more potential lift than the Access. That can be exactly what you want in soft snow, but could be a real Code Brown moment on ice. Easy to boost; tough to land. I'm a beginner too in the Snowkiting world and am only starting to boost. I try it a bit in soft Utah powder. I fall as many times as not at this point when trying to boost but it's no biggie in the soft stuff. I would not want to come down sprawling on the ice! This reinforces my recommendation to take a gander at a 12m Peak-2. Lots of low wind grunt but not much lift unless you really try to do it. I'm with Cheddar - consider skis with a longer turning radius for hard pack and ice. I ski soft snow in wide powder skis but hard stuff on actual DH skis with well turned edges. My DH skis are 218cm with a 50+m sidecut. When you "park and ride" you will want as little turning radius as you can get to hold a strong straight carve against the force of the kite. BTW, Park and ride is when you've got a long straightaway and you "park" your kite for long periods of time in the front of the wind window and just cruise. You were actually pretty much doing it in your videos just didn't know it! Practice practice practice. Uber cool that you can Snowkite out your back door!

Yeah I'm a bit spoiled. Big shallow lake that I terrorize with my prindle 18 all summer :D

I'll look for another pair of skis for the #@%$#!tier conditions I guess. These volkls are more of a GS ski and have a fairly large carve radius, I had no problems keeping them on edge without turning on the ice, but it may still be less than ideal. The problem was I picked these up so cheap that anything else is junk in comparison and probably about the same price The guy I picked these up from also has a pair of atomic beta race 9.20 that were 200cm+, a little longer than these volkls. Might look into those as well.

I hear you on the lofty kites on ice. There were a couple of times when I put the kite a little higher than I should have without bleeding some apparent first, and felt myself getting lighter and struggling to keep an edge on. I really don't want to go sliding across that surface on my ass... The Montana I've got coming will be used with extreme caution, and probably won't come out until it snows again.

Thanks for the advice!

great choice on the montana 8 14M . its a really nice kite.

Quote: Originally posted by Memopad

Quote: Originally posted by Windstruck   Quote: Originally posted by Memopad   Thanks for the welcome. I guess this was a fairly typical "nice" day for the winter up here, especially getting later in the season. Typical forcast when it isn't nuking is in the 5-10mph, maybe 15 tops range. Went a front or other weather is moving through the area, it's in the 20-25+ range. Forcast for tomorrow is gusts up to 35mph for example. So not much in between the two ranges, it's either light or heavy. This is partly why I think the 10m may have been the wrong kite for me, because it's probably a little small for the light air days, and a little big for the 20's? Uploading some videos to youtube stand by... Glad to hear you are enjoying Snowkiting. I agree, total hoot. For winds in the 5-10 range you may want to take a gander at the 12m Flysurfer Peak-2. Particularly for the low end of that wind range. The P2 is a so-called single skin and as such will loft in extremely light wind and start tugging you along in just a little more. I hear you about the larger kites turning a little more slowly. A lot of us that have Access kites have the smaller sizes (4 and 6m) reserving them for really high wind days when we want rock solid stability. I've never flown a 10m Access but I suspect it is sort of "dead in bed". That "deadness""is quite welcome when it's nuking but probably a little too tame in lighter winds as would be appropriate with a 10m kite. You have the V6 Access so you know all about Re-Ride. I LOVE Re-Ride and wish all my DP kites had it. If you don't want to go the route of the Peaks then you could also consider a larger Frenzy V10 or Summit V3, both also with re-ride. As you can see from my Auto-Signature I've got both. The 15m Summit V3 has a lot of spunk for a kite that size and turns more quickly than my 12m Peak2. Not surprising considering the AR differences between the two. The thing I've found, however, is the 15m Summit needs a fair amount of wind to launch, much more than the 12m Peak-2. Good luck with your quest! I actually have a HQ Montana 8 on the way now, picked up a 14m... the price was right. I might leave it in the bag for a while until it either snows more or I get more comfortable with kite handling. The Access is definitely on the dead side, but mostly I've been fighting it in light winds, and I'm sure my handling is lacking in finesse. I haven't needed to use the re-ride yet. I played with it and the safety systems first time I had it out, but it wasn't been windy enough to be needed. Today I just backed the kite down on it's trailing edge and it fell over and stayed there. I think it's gonna be a blessing when I'm landing in higher winds alone.

Quote: Originally posted by Memopad

Quote: Originally posted by PHREERIDER   downwind you need alot of kite action and enough edge to keep lines tight, you have to use the whole window . heres a somewhat related vid , i'm on a land board but demos kite action and the back and forth edging to maintain tension ...lots of looping and high and low positions of kite action. maybe it'll help. most would consider downwind "running " a very balance dependent, as you are more up right falling from edge to edge as you go , like down hill ski actually https://vimeo.com/37769782 Awesome video, really illustrates the motion needed. Right now I'm thinking too much about flying the kite through turns to be able to turn my skis at the same time lol. I'll keep practicing.

falling off broad reach just abit with just a little kite action is easier starting element rather than blasting a loopy run! ...

actually sailed P16 for years before starting to kite as well, open ocean solo was a great education! keep at it !

I always tell people to properly tune your kite when u pull in your bar the kite should power up but not to the point where it stalls or starts to come down out of the sky. And this is true no matter what wind speed is at the time. In lighter winds this can happen quicker than in stronger winds so u need to depower the kite a little more. Big kites in general are slow turners in lighter winds and sometimes u need to yank on the back lines or may be u have the kite depowered a little too much and the back lines are very loose. Its a delicate balance but minor adjustments on your depower trim strap will do the trick. Sometimes your kite Is just too small for the wind conditions and you need to put up a bigger kite if ure fighting to get power out of it.

Quote: Originally posted by Memopad

Another kite handling question... I've noticed that when I pull on the bar, the kite moves back in the window a little bit. When I'm trying to work as close to the wind as possible, do you let the kite move forward in the window (bar off) or keep it back with the bar and in more power? And on turning the kite, I've noticed yanking on the bar made the kite turn faster, but I still have to ease the bar after the turn to keep it from stalling. Even using the bar, it's difficult to up or downloop the kite. Is the 10m access really this much of a dog, or am I expecting too much in light wind? Last time I was out, I had to reach forward and pull the break handle on one side or another to get the kite to complete a turn.

Quote: Originally posted by Memopad

Would line extensions on the 10m Access be of any help? I know it might dampen the turning even more, but if I can get a little more power out of the kite I think I'd be happier.

Sorry to hear you are finding the 10m Access a bit sluggish. I only have experience with a 6m Access in that series but it certainly does seem a lot more tame than some other kites of that size so it doesn't surprise me that it is behaving a bit that way. The 9m Frenzy has some pep in winds high enough to pull me through the snow.

I've added 5m extensions to my 12m Peak-2 to try and eek some extra power out of her. It does generate more power that way, but you guessed it, at the expense of handling. She most certainly slowed down even below her normal slug-bait pace. I fear the same for your 10m Access.

Pulling in the trim line at the cleat will decrease the kite's power and make it turn more slowly. The only time you really want that adjustment anywhere but all the way out is when you are getting overpowered and need to dial the kite back a bit. In those conditions you will likely welcome the slow turning nature of the kite.

If you are having to pull on the brake lines to get her to turn I suspect you are flying quite underpowered.

Quote: Originally posted by Windstruck

Quote: Originally posted by Memopad   Would line extensions on the 10m Access be of any help? I know it might dampen the turning even more, but if I can get a little more power out of the kite I think I'd be happier. Sorry to hear you are finding the 10m Access a bit sluggish. I only have experience with a 6m Access in that series but it certainly does seem a lot more tame than some other kites of that size so it doesn't surprise me that it is behaving a bit that way. The 9m Frenzy has some pep in winds high enough to pull me through the snow. I've added 5m extensions to my 12m Peak-2 to try and eek some extra power out of her. It does generate more power that way, but you guessed it, at the expense of handling. She most certainly slowed down even below her normal slug-bait pace. I fear the same for your 10m Access. Pulling in the trim line at the cleat will decrease the kite's power and make it turn more slowly. The only time you really want that adjustment anywhere but all the way out is when you are getting overpowered and need to dial the kite back a bit. In those conditions you will likely welcome the slow turning nature of the kite. If you are having to pull on the brake lines to get her to turn I suspect you are flying quite underpowered.

Yeah I think I'm just underpowered. I was playing with the trim line to try and balance out me pulling the bar in where it was more comfortable. I've noticed in the light air as I pull the bar I stall the kite, someone mentioned that using the trim line can counter-act the stall tendency.

Quote: Originally posted by RedSky

Hi Memopad, with regards to the sluggish turns, is it possible that you are turning a little too soon and thus riding downwind as you steer your kite ? ..because that will slow the kite like nothing else. You might have to start turning the kite a fraction earlier before you actually start turning. Downturn also, let gravity assist you and maybe pull on the steering line above the bar to speed things up.

This is with me standing stationary, or moving slowly across or upwind. So far keeping momentum downwind has been a no-go I will try a downturn next time I'm out, I think i've only been trying to turn the kite up and over so far.

Unrelated to my terrible kite handling skills:

My Volkl P40's are awesome, have a razor sharp edge, and are pretty comfortable to use with the kite. However with the exposed ice and rough conditions I feel like I might be killing the bases, at least until we get more snow.

I picked up some 200cm Atomic Beta Race 9.20. I was going to use them yesterday but I had some binding issues, hopefully I solved them last night. These are a little longer than the Volkls, but a similar shape. Edge probably needs sharpened, but I don't care if I beat these skis up a little more.

The same guy I bought these two pairs from also has some Beta Race 9.34 198cm. He called them slalom skis (not GS) with quicker turning, but I thought the .34 was the turn radius, which makes it wider than the 9.20 (GS) skis. Anyone know anything about Atomics?

Quote: Originally posted by Memopad

Quote: Originally posted by RedSky   Hi Memopad, with regards to the sluggish turns, is it possible that you are turning a little too soon and thus riding downwind as you steer your kite ? ..because that will slow the kite like nothing else. You might have to start turning the kite a fraction earlier before you actually start turning. Downturn also, let gravity assist you and maybe pull on the steering line above the bar to speed things up. This is with me standing stationary, or moving slowly across or upwind. So far keeping momentum downwind has been a no-go I will try a downturn next time I'm out, I think i've only been trying to turn the kite up and over so far. Unrelated to my terrible kite handling skills: My Volkl P40's are awesome, have a razor sharp edge, and are pretty comfortable to use with the kite. However with the exposed ice and rough conditions I feel like I might be killing the bases, at least until we get more snow. I picked up some 200cm Atomic Beta Race 9.20. I was going to use them yesterday but I had some binding issues, hopefully I solved them last night. These are a little longer than the Volkls, but a similar shape. Edge probably needs sharpened, but I don't care if I beat these skis up a little more. The same guy I bought these two pairs from also has some Beta Race 9.34 198cm. He called them slalom skis (not GS) with quicker turning, but I thought the .34 was the turn radius, which makes it wider than the 9.20 (GS) skis. Anyone know anything about Atomics?

I took a quick look at some old material on the 9.20 versus 9.34 Atomics. While I didn't see actual radius figures what I did see confirms what you wrote, viz, that the 9.20 have a GS sidecut while the 9.34 has a SL sidecut. That would make the 9.34 more hooky than the 9.20. For snowkiting purposes I would think that makes the 9.34 a worse choice than the 9.20. If you can find it, for ice or other hard pack where you have to set a precise edge the less sidecut the better. Look for skis with DH (downhill) or SG (Super Giant Slalom) designations. Most SL racing skis have sidecut radius numbers in the low teens (11-15m), GS somewhere between 18-25 (ish) SG can be 28+ and DH can be 45+. The numbers I scribbled down here are very rough (and exceptions certainly exist) but they are close enough to hopefully give you a feel for what you could be looking for.

I took a very quick look on eBay and saw these:

DH race skis

Quote: Originally posted by Memopad

Thanks Wind. The interesting thing is that according to Atomics naming system, those 9.34 SL skis have a 34m turning radius that would fit a SG ski. The 9.20's I have are 20m radius, and the other 9. series all follow the same radius in their names. Weird. Just looking at the 9.34's they look to have less cut (straighter sides) though they are quite a bit narrower over all. Interesting stuff. I may just buy them to play with them for the price :D

Now I'm trying to figure this out. These skis are around 15+ years old and it can be hard to find stuff on the net about skis that old. I did find that the 9.34 has these dimensions: 92-61-79 mm. I'll certainly take your word on the nomenclature. I was just thrown by folks calling them "slalom" skis.

Quote: Originally posted by Windstruck

Quote: Originally posted by Memopad   Thanks Wind. The interesting thing is that according to Atomics naming system, those 9.34 SL skis have a 34m turning radius that would fit a SG ski. The 9.20's I have are 20m radius, and the other 9. series all follow the same radius in their names. Weird. Just looking at the 9.34's they look to have less cut (straighter sides) though they are quite a bit narrower over all. Interesting stuff. I may just buy them to play with them for the price :D Now I'm trying to figure this out. These skis are around 15+ years old and it can be hard to find stuff on the net about skis that old. I did find that the 9.34 has these dimensions: 92-61-79 mm. I'll certainly take your word on the nomenclature. I was just thrown by folks calling them "slalom" skis.

Yep I'm thrown too because the owner called them slalom skis as well. I can't find much of anything online about the 9.34's, but going by what i've read about the 9.18s, 9.20's and others like that, the .34 should mean 34m radius. Could be counter intuitive since these are oooold skis and right around the time when shaped skis were coming into play? Who knows :p

And the learning continues!

Went out today, a lot more wind. I picked up a wind meter, and it was steady around 12mph, lulls of 10mph, and gusts into the mid/upper teens. I can now say (according to the wind meter anyway) that I wasn't flying in anything near 10mph up till now, I guess I was over estimating the wind speeds previously. I felt okay in 10mph, 15mph took some getting used to. Even with the depower all the way on the kite pulled hard even at zenith, took some adjusting of the harness to keep things comfy downstairs from the upward pull. I was kind of surprised how much lift the kite had parked at 12'oclock. I'd estimate 20-30lbs of upward force, I was expecting less The Access was very stable though, did exactly what I wanted and stayed where I put it, very reassuring.

In these winds the bar control was very obvious, it was reassuring to dump the bar in gusts and feel the kite stop pulling as hard. With depower all the way on and bar all the way out, I still had to keep the kite high to stay under control going downwind, otherwise I'd get moving way too fast for comfort. Part of that was the difficulty of transitioning from snow to large icy patches back to snow. My skis weren't happy.

The Volkl P40's had previously been fine for tracking in the lighter winds. In this heavier air as I was on my edge more and really powering down on the skis, they'd start to carve a turn up wind, made it difficult to control. In lighter deeper snow it might be okay, but this was extremely dense wind blown snow.

All in all a good experience and taste of higher wind speeds. In deeper snow I think I would've been enjoying it a lot more. On ice, still a fun outing but a little more hair raising than wanted :D Supposed to be light wind the rest of the week, should have a chance to get the Montana 14m out of the bag, maybe Thursday.

Quote: Originally posted by PHREERIDER

the static lift is termed "lit". which means kite is firing while not moving with SOLID tension thru harness. trim in and keep bar at comfortable level and should feel "power stroke " as you pull in , ideally once unit is tuned to conditions, with favoring more depowered trim, the power stroke zero point will be conincidence with bar all the way in thats the unhooked position.... might want to wait on that part. anyway have fun trim about 50-75% in and should speed up turns and make unit more lively as wind hits the sweet spot, which sounds like where you where today with power. keeping the kite high in the window is the baby steps for speed control. you don't need much and send "gently" the opposite to slow even more , smooth slow steady, too fast and unit will pop and lift you a bit ..pretty soon snapping the bar in at the zenith will be the pop trigger for boosting ...if thats what you want. otherwise slow smooth and steady.

Yep today all of those kite control things became obvious, it was pretty cool. Glad to know everything was operating normally It took minimal bar input to do nice steady turns, definitely no yanking the brake lines today! I was being pretty chicken because of the ice, would've given it a little more if in snow.

With the wind the way it was, I couldn't do my normal landing of just stalling the kite down. I used the 5th line safety and pulled that in to bring the kite down. Once it was on the ground I was able to turn a tip into the wind and hold it down with snow, normal routine after that. It was kind of hard to pull the safety line in with my gloves on, lots of pressure on it so it was hard to grip. Is it okay to undo the chicken loop and let the kite flag all the way out that way? I don't want to make a giant knotted mess, but if there was any more wind today I think that would've been my next step.

Quote: Originally posted by PHREERIDER

it will reverse stall in more wind, just need practice, you need a plan! an ice anchor or some fixture (a sand/ice bag, bumper , dock, stump etc..) to secure lines then get to kite and secure it. you can just unhook and allow to fall to safety, generally messy. get a plan stick to it. keep it simple and low hassle make sure your apparel gear choice works BEFORE you really need it. gloves mitts whatever, choose comfort but include your safety action in choices you make.

Bah I have an ice screw that I didn't bring with me, could've used it!

Quote: Originally posted by PHREERIDER

stay consistent with setup and bag. esp bar wind and roll up. anchor to launch as well. hot launch set up in light , side launch in heavy air. rev stall action is safety at will without flag release foul potential. read all manufactures guide for product online. always do same , everytime. consistent safe practice, its the first reflex. the wind meter will keep you honest. the power stroke feedback rate, when moving the bar, is somewhat matched to balance and edge control. keep ur head back, eyes on horizon toward point of sail. basic reflexes like that help get ur handling balanced out for powerful edge control. definitely find the brakes! and always have fun

Great advice, thanks! I was hesitant to try the reverse stall because I'd be in the power zone if I screwed up and refilled the kite. Now that I think about it that really shouldn't be a big concern with the nice big brake handles to hold on to. I know what i'll be doing next time!

Quote: Originally posted by Windstruck

Sounds as if things are coming together for you. Two things: first, the re-ride is petty forgiving if you pull the chicken loop. There is a red ball up the line that will arrest the bar before it travels too far and rat nests everything. Test this out a few times BEFORE you need it, then if the situation arise you know what to do, how to do it, and what will happen. I have found that pulling in the fifth line by hand is easier to do on my 6m Access than my 9m Frenzy or my 15m Summit. Sort of makes sense. Second, I suspect you found it difficult to gain aggressive purchase with your edges on the ice when the kite was high in the air and you felt yourself getting lifted. Been there; sort of a weird and unnerving feeling. I'm new too. You are now likely understanding why we've been suggesting getting skis with a much longer turning radius. Hooking upwind is a pain in the seatmeat. Sounds as if you are having fun. Keep going for it!

Having a blast! Absolutely on the skis... they're what I had available at the time, I'm still looking for older straight cut skis to bash around the lake on. I found some on craigslist that would be ideal but they're asking some crazy price like $150 bucks for something from the 90's Sorry lady those skis are worth $10. Lots on ebay but the shipping is well over the cost of the skis. Hopefully something local turns up soon.

Short video of yesterdays session. My bar control goes out the window as soon as I'm holding a camera

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRt2esrHkPM

Quote: Originally posted by Memopad

Short video of yesterdays session. My bar control goes out the window as soon as I'm holding a camera https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRt2esrHkPM

Nice little vid memo! Glad to see you out getting your Snowkite jive on. Indian Lake looks impressive! What a wide open expanse. Once you gain more experience and confidence I bet you could really get lit on a surface like that!

Quote: Originally posted by Windstruck

Nice little vid memo! Glad to see you out getting your Snowkite jive on. Indian Lake looks impressive! What a wide open expanse. Once you gain more experience and confidence I bet you could really get lit on a surface like that!

Thanks! The lake is about 5x7miles, really fun playground. I got 27mph on gps on the opposite tack to the video and that felt good, I think 30's would still be okay. Much more than that I think would be too uncomfortable on these skis, just not stable enough in these conditions.

Quote: Originally posted by Memopad

Quote: Originally posted by Windstruck   Nice little vid memo! Glad to see you out getting your Snowkite jive on. Indian Lake looks impressive! What a wide open expanse. Once you gain more experience and confidence I bet you could really get lit on a surface like that! Thanks! The lake is about 5x7miles, really fun playground. I got 27mph on gps on the opposite tack to the video and that felt good, I think 30's would still be okay. Much more than that I think would be too uncomfortable on these skis, just not stable enough in these conditions.

I know exactly what you mean. Take a look online at the DH skis in my quver. I got them on eBay cheap

Took the Apex for another ride today in slightly drier conditions, great kite lots of fun! I managed to get all kinds of twists in the bridle from the last session since I pretty much wadded it up on the lake (in the water lol) and spread it out at home to dry it out. Took a bit of fiddling but got it straight for the most part. Getting much better at using the anchor screw to hold the kite in place while setting up. Clip in, release the brakes, and fly! The winds started fairly light in the sub 10mph range but I figured the Apex would still move me around since there is no snow left on the lake, only ice. Got me moving just fine and toward the end the wind picked up into the 15mph to 18mph range. Perfect kite in these winds for the ice surface, didn't make me work hard at all. The depower strap doesn't have much throw in it at all, but it seems to make a little difference in flight trim so whatever. Fun session, I can see how this will be a great higher wind kite for when there is snow on the lake. It isn't quite as forgiving as the Access but that could just be it's smaller size and faster turning speed. I hit the zenith a little quickly and felt a little light on my skis during one tack.

With these sustained higher temperatures I'm not sure how much longer the lake is going to last. The surface is full of drain holes from the rain the past few days and it's starting to make me nervous. There is still close to a foot of ice, but the top 4-5 inches are pretty porous from the sun and temperatures. Some areas I was skiing over looked much much thinner, but I think it was because the ice was clear so hard to judge thickness as I flew by. I'm going to be desperate to find a place to fly this summer

Already thinking about summer. My, you are addicted. Welcome to the club. Something you may have already thought about, but I'm hoping you did all that bridle straightening in your living room while the kite was drying, not back out on the lake. Far and away the easiest place to work out bridle tangles is in the warm, dry, wind still comfort of home. :D

Most all of my snowkiting sessions have ended with a kite drying session in my house. Even on dry, cold powder days it seems hard to get the kite rolled up in the field without some snow working its way into the kite, even my single skins! Once in and drying I tend to like to get everything perfectly sorted out and very nicely folded and rolled away. That way on the next session I can just roll the kite out, pack some snow along the leading edge, unwind my lines and go!

Haha nope I did all the bridle fussing on the lake in the wind, it wasn't the greatest I don't really have enough room in my house to spread out the kite enough to get the bridles arranged. I might be able to clear some space in the basement, it would certainly make things easier. For drying I can spread things over my couch and coffee table, but that doesn't help with tangles. My individual control lines have some pretty bad twists in them right now that I want to take care of but I might have to do it outside on a calm day. Spreading out a 14m kite is a lost cause unless I take all the furniture out of my house :D Would that be hitting rock bottom in the adiction?

Quote: Originally posted by Memopad

Haha nope I did all the bridle fussing on the lake in the wind, it wasn't the greatest I don't really have enough room in my house to spread out the kite enough to get the bridles arranged. I might be able to clear some space in the basement, it would certainly make things easier. For drying I can spread things over my couch and coffee table, but that doesn't help with tangles. My individual control lines have some pretty bad twists in them right now that I want to take care of but I might have to do it outside on a calm day. Spreading out a 14m kite is a lost cause unless I take all the furniture out of my house :D Would that be hitting rock bottom in the adiction?

I know what you mean by running out of space when spreading out the bigger kites! My 12m Peak2 and 15m Summit pretty much burst me at the seams too. My bride so loves it when I take up space in the house to do this!

My guess is that you would have space on your driveway to straighten things out. Maybe you could dry things inside and then move the kite out to the driveway, setting up a sort of M.A.S.H. unit out there. Good luck!

And yes, moving furniture to make room for kites is a no-win game in a marriage; avoid at all costs! :evil:

Currently drying a 17m R1 in the house. Too many sharp things in the shop. Like drying a Cessna.

Awesome shot Feyd!

The sun was actually out here today, so I went out for a ride but the wind died on me after I got everything set up with the 5m. I could've (should've) walked back to the house for a bigger kite but had some other things to do so I passed As soon as I got back to the house the wind picked up again lol.

The bridle is kind of intimidating... when I was setting up the kite I thought some lines were crossed but I really can't be sure since the kite wasn't inflated. I'm worried if I start unhooking things up there I'll never get it back together again correctly.

Quote: Originally posted by Feyd

Currently drying a 17m R1 in the house. Too many sharp things in the shop. Like drying a Cessna.

Great pic Chris! I imagine you got a little "soggy" during that session.

Whelp the ice is breaking up in front of my house so I think that's the end of snow kite season for me I haven't got a chance to fly the montana 9m yet, and I just picked up a speed 3 19m kite too. I think I need to layoff kite purchases for a while... I picked up some gateskate trailskates to screw around with this summer so we'll see how that goes.

Quote: Originally posted by Memopad

I picked up some gateskate trailskates to screw around with this summer so we'll see how that goes.

Memopad.... my man!

Wheels of Doom...

If you've been tracking things here you'll have seen that I am gearing up my wheel-based arsenal also with a keen eye towards kite skating. I've been working on variations of "three wheels underfoot" as compared to "two wheels front and back" to keep the feel more ice skate like in the turns.

There are certainly trade offs in all this as you know (or will soon find out for yourself). If you have a skating background you will figure out quickly that you will be challenged to"carve" corners with your setup, necessitating step turns when making you corners at the end of your kite runs. On the flip side you will be far lower to the ground than I will which will certainly be a good feel COG-wise.

I love the 200mm wide tires on those Gate Skates! That size (and importantly, width) will certainly come in handy for many surfaces. My wheel set ups are currently 125mm and 150mm and distinctly narrower than yours. That in turn will cause me problems when trying to kite on lush grass fields.

Please post your antics (and video!) in the Kite Skating section of PKF! Too few of us here working skates!!!

Quote: Originally posted by Windstruck

Quote: Originally posted by Memopad   I picked up some gateskate trailskates to screw around with this summer so we'll see how that goes. Memopad.... my man! Wheels of Doom... If you've been tracking things here you'll have seen that I am gearing up my wheel-based arsenal also with a keen eye towards kite skating. I've been working on variations of "three wheels underfoot" as compared to "two wheels front and back" to keep the feel more ice skate like in the turns. There are certainly trade offs in all this as you know (or will soon find out for yourself). If you have a skating background you will figure out quickly that you will be challenged to"carve" corners with your setup, necessitating step turns when making you corners at the end of your kite runs. On the flip side you will be far lower to the ground than I will which will certainly be a good feel COG-wise. I love the 200mm wide tires on those Gate Skates! That size (and importantly, width) will certainly come in handy for many surfaces. My wheel set ups are currently 125mm and 150mm and distinctly narrower than yours. That in turn will cause me problems when trying to kite on lush grass fields. Please post your antics (and video!) in the Kite Skating section of PKF! Too few of us here working skates!!!

I will for sure! We have a severe lack of open areas up here that aren't water. Lots of trees, not much farming, so my options will be fairly limited this summer but I'll make something work.

I need to disconnect the brakes on the skates and find a new bolt for one of the bindings, other than that they look good to go. I've been skate skiing for the past 25 years so step turns are second nature for me. I'll still probably fall on my ass but hopefully I get it on video

Quote: Originally posted by Memopad

I've been skate skiing for the past 25 years so step turns are second nature for me. I'll still probably fall on my ass but hopefully I get it on video

That skate skiing background is perfect for what we are trying to do here. I'm sure you'll feel at home on those Bad Boys on day one. My one suggestion would be padding, padding, and then some more padding. Throw on the brain bucket for sure. Wrist guards too in case you hadn't thought of that already.

Quote: Originally posted by jrhook

So the entire winter passes by with a huge newly plowed field awaiting the slightest coating of snow to make for a great ride! ALL YEAR...NOTHING, NADA, ZILCH SNOW! And this is upstate New York! April 4th, we get a good 5 inches or more so off I go...Great northern provides the pull and some good fun on the blades. Posted a quick clip of the ride on Instagram just for giggles and get this comment - #barsr4wimps - Is this true? At 57, should I feel wimpy? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCXZw9jvLgQ

@jrhook - Sorry to hear about the extreme snow skunking you got dealt this winter. That sucks! Next year will be epic!

@memopad - Along the lines of those bad boys you picked up, Brian Holgate turned me on to something similar that I just ordered from Germany called Nordic Scouts. You can check them out here:

http://www.nordic-scout.de

These have free spinning wheels and a frame casting that I can bolt through to the Seba skate boots I already own. I got just the frames and wheel sets not the shoe interface or their fancy brake system. The wheels are similar to yours, viz., 200mm x 50mm inflated knobbies, sort of like mini mountain bike wheels.

I'm hopeful these are the ticket for rolling acceptably well on grass athletic fields. My Powerslide set up that is essentially the same thing has 150mm x 30mm tires which are just a bit to small to roll well in the grass. They roll great on the Ivanpah playa.

Psyched! :karate: