Power Kite Forum - Best light wind kites (What's yours?)

Best light wind kites (What's yours?)

ssayre - 5-5-2016 at 10:31 AM

For as often as the subject comes up, I was surprised to do a search on Google and not get any hits for pkf. I did a search on pkf and still had mixed results. I figured it would be good to try and consolidate the light wind wisdom and opinions.

I define light wind as anything below 10. How does everyone else define light wind and what are you using? There are the usual suspects large closed cell, large single skins. But what about the less talked bout kites like lei in light fabric or a frenzy in light fabric? Just examples. It would be nice to compile a list with of light wind kites with pros and cons.

Also (for new people reading) it's important to understand skill and ability are just as important as gear for light wind success.

*Light Wind Defined: (based on answers)

Ultra light wind: 5 and below

Light wind: Below 10

BeamerBob - 5-5-2016 at 11:15 AM

With 10 mph, there are lots of kites that can give you a ride on land. For me, true light wind is below 5 mph. Nothing can make power in that better than a large fixed bridle kite. How low you go with the wind and how much power do you want dictates how large you have to go.

Feyd - 5-5-2016 at 11:18 AM

It's tough without really narrowing it down. "Light Wind" definition is with such a broad range or variables. What are you riding? Are we talking static or moving? Surface? Air Temp? etc...

In my limited experience even "Light wind" LEIs, 17m etc.. don't come close to performance of most foils. Though I have only got experience with traditional designs and none with Strutless or single strut types.

UL versions of kites like the Frenzy and Summit are considerably better in lights winds compared to non-UL versions. Although the idea of going to UL versions on those kites is more about pack ability rather than light wind. Though they are easier to launch and more nimble in light wind.

Matrixx 2 is a great light wind rig. Matrixx 1 did pretty well in light winds too IMO. 12m Ranger. 11m Flexifoil Sabre 1. Unlike a lot of non UL fabric kites in the 10m+ range. They seemed pretty good at overcoming the weight and performing well. Much Chronos, R1's and Sonics do today.

In terms of non-UL not specific light wind rigs, fixed bridles are probably the most common top performers I would bet. Like Vapors, Yakuzas etc...?

Windstruck - 5-5-2016 at 12:04 PM

Nice topic Sean. An issue many of us deal with (I know you and I both do) in the quest for suitable sub-10 mph strong traction generation kites is the quality and consistency of the wind. Light, beautiful, laminar flowing breezes coming off large bodies of water or out in the desert are sublime with the big kites (my personal experience being limited to date to 12m Peak2, 15m Summit and 10/12.5m NS3s) but the winds I get in the Utah mountains (insert here Indiana fields, etc.) are generally really inconsistent when this light, often dropping out to nothing or near nothing, only to surge again to, gulp, 6-8 mph.

In the light inland Jank I've found my 12m Peak2 a more satisfying weapon than either my large Summit or NS3s. The Summit is hard to get off the ground in light surface winds and will fall out of the sky during the lulls despite my best efforts at keeping things going (I'm sure there is a lot more I could be doing skill wise). The NS3 is easier to get off the ground but will backstall in the lulls and also seems to weigh too much at times to stay afloat.

With the 12m Peak2 I find I can get it into the air with very little wind and with the bar out get it to climb high in the wind window on a few breaths of wind. When moving and the wind dies I find I can get the kite to often stay afloat with the bar all the way out. I've come to a stop mind you as the kite really doesn't provide traction in these settings, but hey, the kite is in the air, and I can usually just sort of hoover the kite and futz around with it waiting for the next 6-8 mph gale to roll in.

I've been secretly hoping that Flysurfer will come out with a 15+ meter Peak someday, maybe a Peak3!

One final comment, is at least for the 12.5m NS3, it is a lot of kite attached to just two power lines when the wind unexpectedly comes up. I've had a couple near dangerous moments in my buggy with the Big Fella up in the air and start to get pulled sideways towards soccer goalposts, etc at just the wrong times.

ssayre - 5-5-2016 at 12:19 PM

Okay, to be more specific, I'm talking about kites for traction, not static. I'm also referring to land based traction since that is what this site mainly focuses on but definitely not limited to that since any kites used on water can also be used on land.

FWIW, my perception of light wind is different than some/most since it's almost solely based on inland wind and riding on a high resistance surface (thick grass)

These factors make the goto large fixed bridle kite worthless for anyone that has at least one of these 2 factors in play. Inconsistent light wind OR high resistance surface. You can take away either of those factors and most likely be able to get away with a large fixed bridle.

Having done a few land kite disciplines (at least some experience), I don't think discipline makes much difference for kite choice for light wind. The only difference is surface conditions. For example, fast skiing surface conditions would be comparable to low resistance buggy surface conditions such as hardpack, asphalt etc. requiring similar power. Yes, there are other factors for kite choice for different disciplines but generally you can adequately use the same kites successfully across most disciplines on land.

@Feyd, that's good insight I didn't previously know on the ul traditional foils. I thought ul was probably for light wind. Portability didn't even cross my mind.

I'm not looking for a light wind kite myself because I've decided that I'll find something else to do if it's not windy, but I thought it would be nice to have a thread to refer people to with a collection of what most people find effective for light wind and the enviroments and they find them useful in. Also, just gives those of us that aren't at jibe something else to think about. :P

southpadreburt - 5-5-2016 at 12:43 PM

My Frenzy 13M UL is a wonderful light wind kite. The UL version floats and keeps it's shape in the lulls and needs very little wind to power my buggy in sand. Great depower range for me (7or8 mph to over 15 mph). Very friendly kite!

WELDNGOD - 5-5-2016 at 01:17 PM

10.3 m PKD Combat you could buggy with it, but you would have to get it up and run to the buggy. https://vimeo.com/38891773

WELDNGOD - 5-5-2016 at 01:19 PM

8.6 PL Reactor II in 6 mph winds https://vimeo.com/14972687

nate76 - 5-5-2016 at 01:20 PM

I know not many folks have had a chance to try them, but the HQ Zeekai really changed my lightwind riding expectations this last season. I never bothered to pull out my Matrixx II this winter (my former favorite LW kite) , just because the Zeekai is so quick to lay out and pack up, and so much fun to horse around on. It will go up in next to no wind and the hangtime is incredible.

sand flea - 5-5-2016 at 02:28 PM

11m vapor
perfect combo of weight and size for near nothing wind

Feyd - 5-5-2016 at 03:16 PM

I'm with Bob on the light wind gauge. 3-5 (and like Windstruck say's gusting to a whopping 8mph) in my circles is light wind.

Some people won't bother with less than 10-12 mph.

On clean ice with a 18m Chrono 1 and 40m lines, you can get cruising about 10-15mph in wind you can barely feel on your face. But that's more a novelty or just to get your fix. It's not much fun some days but it's still better than not flying at all. :P

ssayre - 5-5-2016 at 03:54 PM

I think I define light wind the simlarly. I say 10 or less because when I have 10 or less wind than it is accompanied by frequent lulls ranging from 0 and everything between. That coupled with thick grass and not having a true light wind wing means I don't even try it. Unless my wind direction is such that I can ride my asphalt road spot.

However I have no need for another kite. If wind is in that range I can use my 6m peak on handles or 5.5m nasa star and ride the longboard or the short board to shed a little more weight.

Adding an asphalt / skate discipline was like adding another kite or 2 to my quiver.

Windstruck - 5-5-2016 at 04:10 PM

Quote: Originally posted by ssayre

I think I define light wind the simlarly. I say 10 or less because when I have 10 or less wind than it is accompanied by frequent lulls ranging from 0 and everything between. That coupled with thick grass and not having a true light wind wing means I don't even try it. Unless my wind direction is such that I can ride my asphalt road spot.

However I have no need for another kite. If wind is in that range I can use my 6m peak on handles or 5.5m nasa star and ride the longboard or the short board to shed a little more weight.

Adding an asphalt / skate discipline was like adding another kite or 2 to my quiver.

Those are really good points. Decrease rolling resistance versus increasing kite size (and cash outlay) to infinity. I've got thoughts along that line, viz., skating on asphalt parking lots with Metropolis SUV wheel and frame sets on my skates, a Peak2 in the air, and handles with 5m lines in my hands. Whupp!

Bladerunner - 5-5-2016 at 04:22 PM

For us 10mph is a decent day! About the time I think about sizing down to my 15m Syn'. Low wind is more like 5mph and less. Clean wind though.

Surface and space dictate what kites I can use for low winds. On the beach or on fast snow my 19m SA works well on apparent winds. In our small parks the 19 doesn't have room to shine. My 18m Phantom consistently impresses me with it's low end. It is getting so I only need about 4 or 5 mph to make it work once properly inflated.

Iflykites is getting some decent low wind performance with his 12m Peak 2. A good kite for our small spaces.

abkayak - 5-5-2016 at 06:18 PM

3-8mph???, hang w/ the family, work on the house, go beer shopping
Really if you can't get moving w/ a 4.9 Blade in a bug is it worth it???
I would like the 6m...had the 8.3 but its just not me

Feyd - 5-5-2016 at 06:38 PM

What's on your feet is as important as what you have in the air in some cases. Different skis for different conditions. Or different wheels if that's you r mode of transport. Either way, a dramatic affect on what makes a light wind kite light wind capable.

But then maybe this is too much detail.

skimtwashington - 5-5-2016 at 08:32 PM

I think at double digits it changes to no longer be a condition of 'light winds'....so I might concur.

If I were to make up something more specific, I might concoct that from 5 or 6mph to 9mph(or less than 10)mph is 'light wind', and from 1-4 or 5 is very light . I save 0 as being 'no wind'. (this is definitely too much detail!!)

Of course I admittedly still streeeeetch the term 'no wind' in casual kite conversation to mean 0 to 5 mph or whatever situation where I can't be pulled and mobile with the a kite from my quiver . Example: " Yeah, There was no wind to ride today, even though it was perfectly onshore. Be nice to have a big Reactor or Vapor to ride today."

Though above is my perspective based on what's on my feet or under me, and surfaces typical to me.......others, clearly, will have different number ranges equating to their definition of 'light
wind' .

Altogether different modes of transport and surfaces....say using ice skates on glare ice vs buggy on sand changes things- the ability to ride(and speed)- but I would generally still stick with my use of the terms and their perspective ranges, especially to those in my kite group who know me and my quiver.

My experience and observation makes note of some single skins ability to do well in light winds without being as big-or as heavy- as bigger foils.

Best light wind kites?

Well.....Single skins and comparatively larger foils do very well.

Some specific candidates:
Peak 9m. and 12m.
PL Vapor or Ozone Yakuza 10m to 17m
NPW 10m-15m
?...
?...

Maybe the question is "What is the best light wind kite in your quiver?

Here's another question:
What is 'low wind'?...... :rolleyes:

ssayre - 6-5-2016 at 03:25 AM

Good points all around

Skim you are correct. "What is the best light wind kite in your quiver" probably should have been the title. I just think it's interesting to see what others enjoy using given their location.

I still say discipline only plays a small role. You can boil everything down to smooth / not smooth wind and Fast / slow / or not ride-able surface regardless of discipline and one could argue that similar power and kite type will be needed at a given location. edit: rider / vehicle weight as well.

That's why this is an all inclusive thread

A lot of times a thread starts off with "What's a good kite for (discipline)"

Also, I've edited my first post to include the definition of light wind based on responses.

dangerdan - 6-5-2016 at 07:04 AM

Quote: Originally posted by BeamerBob

With 10 mph, there are lots of kites that can give you a ride on land. For me, true light wind is below 5 mph. Nothing can make power in that better than a large fixed bridle kite. How low you go with the wind and how much power do you want dictates how large you have to go.

What size do you consider large ??

Feyd - 6-5-2016 at 08:10 AM

Oooo good question.

12m Venom 2 is not like a 12m Vapor. :D

nate76 - 6-5-2016 at 08:43 AM

Quote:

3-8mph???, hang w/ the family, work on the house, go beer shopping

I don't know man, I'm kind of with Chris and Bob. I've had a lot of fun in those kind of winds this winter. But maybe I'm just easily amused

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yt7hzlpmEOw

Cerebite - 6-5-2016 at 10:41 AM

Quote: Originally posted by WELDNGOD

8.6 PL Reactor II in 6 mph winds https://vimeo.com/14972687

And that demonstrates the difference between low wind on the coast or the playa and inland.
I have had an 8.6m Reactor II for years and feel like I have never gotten a good session on it due to "Janky" wind changes.
By contrast the 8.5m Blade IV that I have has become my goto kite in that second tier [5 -10 mph] wind range. The tip to tip cross bridling does wonders for helping it to keep its shape and hold the low winds. This is definitely a "horses for courses" kite though, Proletariat tried for a year and half to get comfortable with this kite on a board and never did, he feels it is too lifty.

abkayak - 6-5-2016 at 10:42 AM

blaring sun and pow w/ 19m overhead...sure, i agree that would be an amusing day :thumbup:

Cerebite - 6-5-2016 at 11:02 AM

For the very light winds [0 -5mph] it is definitely a matter of what that light wind is doing, steady 5 or "averaging" 5 :lol:

and how dry & hard my grass field is [gotta find a new one now but that is a different discussion

].

I have had some great session on my KM4 12m on 30m lines, that will power through all sorts of rough grass and absorb massive amounts of wind speed delta along with the maneuverability to "absorb" wind direction changes.

As others have said the challenge with big FBs [10m & 12m] in these winds is getting them inflated and launched to take advantage of the "higher" winds above the ground and the apparent wind when moving.
They are blurring in my mind right now as to which is which [got all three at about the same time and have used all three about the same amount] but I have had reasonable luck with my 10m/ 12m Blaze, Ace and First from the everybodies favorite maker of knockoffs.

A tangential discussion but line length makes a world of difference at these speeds. I learned the hard way that anything over 8m needs to be on 27 or 30m lines so it can be maneuvered in the wind since at these speeds the apex of your wind window is only 45 degrees off of the deck.

Another dark secret that never gets discussed is what your altitude above sea level is. I have heard anecdotal evidence that 20 -30% of your kite power is lost going from sea level to mile high [no pot jokes please].

bigkid - 6-5-2016 at 12:27 PM

Too many answers to your original question.
Only answer that was the closest was the biggest kite in your collection.
Line leingth is a major influence on low/no wind buggy riding.

This topic of what is low wind is as old as the kite itself. Clean wind/janky wind, it's all old news. Long lines/short lines.
Of all the sizes I have owned, and all the places I have flown, and all leingths of lines, I have found it is all dependent on skill and desire. One thing I have found that is not talked about here is the fact that after you get above the top of the trees/buildings/ obstacles, the wind is much more clean than you would know. Nobody flys up in the clean air because 30m lines don't get there. Whether you're at the beach, or a dry lake bed, or the middle of a field, the wind on the ground can be lousy to nonexistent. Once you get up above the ground, there is wind. And most of it is clean. But then clean is a relative term also.

I fly a 15m NPW on long or short lines, a 13m Century on both long or short lines in zero to 18mph winds and buggy while others sit and wait.
A 8m on long lines in zero wind is quite doable also. I have found if the wind I'd not clean all I need to do is increase the kite speed through the window to help reduce the "janky" wind effects.
Most of my experience comes from watching others and trying something different. I'm not afraid to push the envelope and do most of the time I'm playing. I am 230lbs and the buggy is over 100lbs so what size works for me would be to much for a person who weighs 150lbs with a 30lbs PL buggy. Bigfoots compared to barrows/grass to dry lake bed changes things again.

But the question still remains, what is low wind.

ssayre - 6-5-2016 at 01:18 PM

@cerebite, I hadn't thought about altitude. Looks like I'm 800' above sea level

@bigkid, I had forgot about line length. all I've played with so far is a ns2 7m on 40m lines which helped a little but not as much as I thought. (only tried once briefly so probably need to try that again) Also, I have 3m extensions on my stock flysurfer lines so I've been flying a total of 25 lines on the 9m. I know what you mean about clean air up high from single line flying. I used to semi frequently fly single line and there always reached a height where the wind would settle and strengthen keeping the kite totally stable as opposed to the first 100' or so. I usually flew 300' line and I would notice it starting to smooth out at around 100' (only guessing). So with the kite flying at an angle next to your, you would need around 90m of line to be cruising with the kite around 100' off the ground (give or take, I just did some rough math). My point is I understand where your coming from, most of us are flying under the good stuff even if it is for practical reasons.

nate76 - 6-5-2016 at 01:46 PM

Quote:

Another dark secret that never gets discussed is what your altitude above sea level is. I have heard anecdotal evidence that 20 -30% of your kite power is lost going from sea level to mile high [no pot jokes please].

@cerebite, You're right, the air density at 6,000ft vs sea level is about 20% less for a given temperature.

One thing to remember though is that most wind meters we use for kiting measure the wind speed the kite "feels" (sometimes called indicated airspeed). So If you're flying your kite at 12,000ft and your wind meter says its blowing 15mph, that is probably what it feels like to the kite (and you) as well.

Your speed across the ground will likely feel faster though.

Feyd - 6-5-2016 at 07:01 PM

Altitude and/or air tempnboth can have dramatic affect on kite performance. 30kts in 80f is not the same as 30kt in -20f.

soliver - 6-5-2016 at 07:01 PM

IMHO light wind is everything under 10mph. As an inland flyer, 9mph and under basically means that the gusts get up to 9-10mph, but usually the windspeed hangs out around ZERO to 5-6mph. I do agree with the common theme that FB foils have a tendency to do better in lighter wind and used to have A LOT of good sessions with my 8.6m PL Reactor II. It was small enough to sling around, but big enough to do a great job in the sub 10mph poop wind that is so common in north GA. Something about it had that combination of stability, upwind ability and awesomeness that just worked really well for me. But I had to trade in for the Nasa Stars...

For me now, I do pretty well with my 10m Nasa Star 3. I am at JIBE this week and have not experienced a sub 10mph sea breeze, but expect it would do a bang up job. We did have a day with some sub 10mph off shore crud and the 10m performed well, but the gust factor almost bit me, so I called it a day.

I loves My Nasa Stars, esp after this week at JIBE. I've never felt more in control of my buggying!

canuck - 6-5-2016 at 09:00 PM

Light wind for me is 2-7 mph ( 3-12kph) and a closed cell fixed bridle works best because they stay inflated if lulls put them on the ground . My Quadrifoil KiteSurfer XXXL comes alive at 4mph but the XXL is usually my go to kite because janky Prairie low winds usually mean 2-12 mph and the XXXL is pulling me sideways at 10 mph.

kitemaker4 - 7-5-2016 at 08:37 AM

15 meter npw9 in low winds.

Susan (npw goddess)

ikemiester - 7-5-2016 at 09:44 AM

speed 3 19m. I can be jumping in a little more than nothing.

Randy - 7-5-2016 at 02:19 PM

Quote: Originally posted by ssayre

Adding an asphalt / skate discipline was like adding another kite or 2 to my quiver.

Sean - have you tried ultra low friction bearings? I don't know much about them, but I've read that these expensive bearings (>$100) can make skateboards much faster. Could it be a way to substitute for wind or kite size?

For myself I've found that a longboard takes less wind/kite than even an ATB so that's they way I usually go now in my limited opportunities and locations.

ssayre - 7-5-2016 at 02:26 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Randy

Quote: Originally posted by ssayre

Adding an asphalt / skate discipline was like adding another kite or 2 to my quiver.

No I have not tried those and probably will not. I'm not going for any top speeds and if wind is too light for what I have, than I carve around with my carver skateboard set up without kite. They are still a blast and no wind required.

shehatesmyhobbies - 8-5-2016 at 06:39 AM

Well, for me, my best low wind kite is my only large kite, my 18m phantom. On the beach I can get it in the air in about 7mph winds and get it to make power enough for me to buggy. At home, I won't even head to the field unless it's blowing 10-12 mph winds and usually wait till it's a steady 15mph wind to get me going on the grass field. I want to get some large FB kites to put in the trailer for lower wind days on the beach as well as on the grassy fields, but I just haven't yet.

For me personally, I would usually prefer to wait till the winds are a little higher, but sometimes I really get the itch to buggy at the slightest breeze and just know, especially at my home field, that currently it wouldn't be worth the trip with the kites I have in the trailer. Longer lines would not help me at my home field as there just would t be enough room for it.

Chook - 9-5-2016 at 01:59 AM

A 13.4mtr Vapor is my light wind (3 to 7 knots) kite. If the kite will sit on the sand and the centre of the kite will inflate and support it's self when ready to launch, then the wind is strong enough to buggy.

grigorib - 10-5-2016 at 07:23 AM

Quote: Originally posted by ikemiester

speed 3 19m. I can be jumping in a little more than nothing.

It's a great kite you've got!

ssayre - 10-5-2016 at 07:56 AM

Quote: Originally posted by shehatesmyhobbies

At home, I won't even head to the field unless it's blowing 10-12 mph winds and usually wait till it's a steady 15mph wind to get me going on the grass field.

This is exactly the mindset I've adopted for buggy on grass fields. I've thought about buying another wing to TRY and cover my lower wind but ended up deciding it's not worth it to me. My light wind days are inconsistent and better suited to doing something else or kiting asphalt if I get the right wind direction.

Windstruck - 10-5-2016 at 04:56 PM

Quote: Originally posted by ssayre

Quote: Originally posted by shehatesmyhobbies

At home, I won't even head to the field unless it's blowing 10-12 mph winds and usually wait till it's a steady 15mph wind to get me going on the grass field.

Spoken like a man truly succeeding at resisting the gravitational pull towards the inevitable, namely, the 12m Peak2. You know you want some of that chicken Sean! :saint:

ssayre - 10-5-2016 at 05:20 PM

Very true Steve. Not experiencing the 12m does keep me up at night and really rubs salt in the wounds when I have a teaser wind day. I love my 9m but if I had to do it over again, I would have skipped the 9 and got a 12

3shot - 10-5-2016 at 06:07 PM

I was uber impressed with MarS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-s Cross Kites Sonic 11m

Windstruck - 10-5-2016 at 08:39 PM

Quote: Originally posted by ssayre

Very true Steve. Not experiencing the 12m does keep me up at night and really rubs salt in the wounds when I have a teaser wind day. I love my 9m but if I had to do it over again, I would have skipped the 9 and got a 12

Nothing not to love about that 9m Sean, that is one awesome kite. When I was down at IBX I tried to fly with it (the 9) four times only to be thwarted by either too much wind or not enough. Keep your chin up and your eyes peeled on the PKF For Sale section. One day it will flash, like the great white (alright, green) whale and you will harpoon it and call it your own. :shocked2:

ssayre - 11-5-2016 at 03:47 AM

The only thing I'll be harpooning in the foreseeable future is some home improvement type stuff. Gotta keep the wife happy

Anthonyshopguy - 12-5-2016 at 03:43 AM

Quote: Originally posted by ssayre

The only thing I'll be harpooning in the foreseeable future is some home infringements type stuff. Gotta keep the wife happy

Hear hear I heard that. I don't start getting to those projects she is going to throw me and the kites out:duh:

Demoknight - 12-5-2016 at 07:25 AM

My light wind kite is my 19m Speed 3 Deluxe. Last year at JIBE we had one or two ultra light wind days. I was riding near Ted and his 12m Peak 2 and his kite wasn't falling out of the air, but wasn't pulling him upwind very easily. I was able to park and ride upwind at the same time. The downside is that his Peak would never fall out of the sky, but if I made any mistakes while flying the Speed, it would lose apparent wind and slither down through the air like a ribbon on a wingtip towards the ground. You need to be a good pilot to get the most out of it, but the large high aspect closed-cell foils are the best light wind kites in my opinion. I even prefer it to FB foils for the simple fact that lulls affect them less. FB foils will exhale their air right out the front if you aren't careful in light winds, but closed-cell kites just tend to drift back or down and come back to life with a single tug.

TEDWESLEY - 12-5-2016 at 12:20 PM

I lust for your 19m
The 12m p2 does real well and is versatile at a reasonable price. I'm a cruiser, so just being underway is fine with me.

Cheddarhead - 12-5-2016 at 12:34 PM

I think foil boards on water are completely redefining what "lite" wind means. I continually see people re-adjusting their quivers and selling off their largest kites simply because they don't need them anymore. I know this is sort of a land based topic but I can't help but think of how much the hydrofoil has changed the size of kites were flying. There everywhere now. Hydrofoil boards, windsurfers and sailboats all with foils attached to them. I already envy the guys out there foiling on 10 meter kites in 15 mph wind, while I'm sitting here at home wishing I could get out on my twin tip:P

ssayre - 12-5-2016 at 01:47 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Cheddarhead

I think foil boards on water are completely redefining what "lite" wind means. I continually see people re-adjusting their quivers and selling off their largest kites simply because they don't need them anymore. I know this is sort of a land based topic but I can't help but think of how much the hydrofoil has changed the size of kites were flying. There everywhere now. Hydrofoil boards, windsurfers and sailboats all with foils attached to them. I already envy the guys out there foiling on 10 meter kites in 15 mph wind, while I'm sitting here at home wishing I could get out on my twin tip:P

Nope, I mentioned it earlier. This thread is free from the chains of any one discipline. Water and land light wind favorites are welcomed.

Looking at your quiver, I'm guessing the p2 12m is your lightest wind kite?

Didn't you have a 13m ul frenzy? How did it compare?

Demoknight - 12-5-2016 at 02:47 PM

I have flown a UL Frenzy I think either 11m or 13m as well as the 12m P2 and there is just no way the Frenzy can go as low as the P2. It is nearly as good as it gets for light wind, and only the biggest and most expensive closed cell foils can top it. The exception is that for the price of a 12m P2 you can get a used Speed 3 Deluxe in amazing condition. There is no way I would choose a Peak over a Speed, even a 5 year old Speed.

Cheddarhead - 12-5-2016 at 06:08 PM

Gotta go with Demoknight on this one. 12m Peak2 beats out the Frenzy ultralight no problem. Peak launches well before the Frenzy. I did have a 13m Frenzy for a while but sold it to south padre burt. Frenzy, even though ultralite, is still more of a fat/heavy kids kite and not necessarily super low wind. There is just so much less material to the peak than any other kite it's size. Don't know what the projected area is on the 12m peak, but would think it's up there. It seems to fly rather flat compared to the Frenzy.

Feyd - 12-5-2016 at 06:35 PM

Yup. The Frenzy UL 13m is a great kite and better in light wind than a standard Frenzy but it's can't compete with a Peak 12m.

skimtwashington - 12-5-2016 at 06:42 PM

yup....

Single skin vs foil revisited.

And if you are 'packing in' with it...the size and weight is huge plus. you can bring another smaller size....or two.

Most are likely not, but I think there are a few around doing a remote launch.

Demoknight - 13-5-2016 at 07:25 AM

If you are on a budget and don't like to buy used kites, the Peak2 12m is the best way to go for sure. If you take that same budget, investing in a used Speed 3 or Speed 4 now is the best light wind kite you can get really. The large sizes of the newer race kites I hear are even better, but they are still sky high in terms of price. I would only buy one if I hit the lottery, or I got a yuuuge tax refund.

Windstruck - 13-5-2016 at 08:58 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Cheddarhead

Gotta go with Demoknight on this one. 12m Peak2 beats out the Frenzy ultralight no problem. Peak launches well before the Frenzy. I did have a 13m Frenzy for a while but sold it to south padre burt. Frenzy, even though ultralite, is still more of a fat/heavy kids kite and not necessarily super low wind. There is just so much less material to the peak than any other kite it's size. Don't know what the projected area is on the 12m peak, but would think it's up there. It seems to fly rather flat compared to the Frenzy.

Lovin' this Peak2 12m love fest! The ability to get the 12m up in the air under light wind conditions really sets it apart from the Ozones like the Access, Frenzy, or Summit. I've no experience with the Speed but so many seem to love it so I will gladly take it on face value. Owning the Ozones under discussion in various sizes I can vouch for the lower wind flying, particularly in jank, of the Peaks vs any of these. It takes, for example, a lot more surface wind to get my 15m Summit off the ground than my 12m Peak.

I'd say that size for size the Peaks have larger projected area than the Frenzy or Summit; they just sort of ride flatter in the sky. The other thing is the amount of DP the Peaks have. In lulls you can let the bar all the way out and unless it is practically windstill you can get the kite up high in the sky and wait things out. Mind you you are not moving across the ground/snow but the kite is up in the air and not tangled on the ground. New set of breezes, pull in the bar a bit, and off you go again.

Yeah, I like my Peaks..... :saint:

3shot - 13-5-2016 at 12:04 PM

Errol. Don't rule out the Cross Kites Sonic. Did you see Mark flying his 11m last year? 5mph wind. A Vapor clone at a fraction of the cost. If you are in the market....

BeamerBob - 13-5-2016 at 02:45 PM

I have a 7m Sonic and it's an awesome kite! Flies just like you hope a kite will. Tight sail. Loads of power. Reaches forward in the window. Never tucks a tip. I too want an 11 m.

Devoted - 13-5-2016 at 03:35 PM

A big kite. A big big kite. Like a 19 venom2..Fs speed 15 or 19...
Anything that rocks my boat and is slow, big and catches a lot of wind.
Otherwise it is 'surfs up' and i hook up with the turtles. Either way a blast.

One comment...take good care of your enviroment and listen closely to the wind. Whatch the sky. Before you know it the wind picks up beyond your limitation and experiance and kiting can become survival of the fittest.

Demoknight - 13-5-2016 at 04:53 PM

Jason, I got to fly the 11m Sonic last year. I actually prefer the 8.6 Reactor because of how much more maneuverable it is as well as less prone to stalling if you give it too much brake to turn. Sonics are great kites, but I didn't them for my style of flying.

hiaguy - 13-5-2016 at 05:00 PM

One afternoon at WBB this March, there wasn't enough of a breeze to keep my 11m Lynx in the air.
Dave ley me try his 15m Chrono: I hopped back into my buggy and was off at 15mph. Maybe not fast, but it was the only kite on the beach that would stay in the air. (Thanks Dave!)

bigkid - 12-7-2016 at 02:55 AM

I found a couple of pictures of some 0-2mph wind buggy riding.
A few others were trying to get a kite in the air, I was the only one in the buggy. 300 feet of line on a 13m Century traveling about 10mph.

Blitzhound - 12-7-2016 at 05:56 PM

I don't really have a low wind kite per say. But... I have managed to get moving in 3-5 mph with my 16m Venom. Not great. But we were moving. I don't know how fast. But I was having a good time. In the end that's all it's really about. I don't really care how fast I'm going. Just that I'm going. I don't have it anymore and I wasn't skilled enough to do it but I had a 16.1m Vapor that I have seen cruise the beach in 2-3mph wind. You're awesome sand flea! Thank you for showing me how a pro does it.

sand flea - 13-7-2016 at 04:07 PM

http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=32115

Thanks for the compliment and great vid Blitz

it wouldn't even qualify as wind that day, it was more like air flowing off the ocean, you could barely even feel it.
But the direction was perfect and the 16 vapor was like a vacuum the way it sucked up air to go faster and faster.
Epic day, thanks John

NorthernKitesAustralia - 19-9-2016 at 11:34 PM

Can I share my experience of light wind kites?

My all time favourite light wind (in 10 to 12knots - anything lower than 10knots and I can only static fly, but not kitesurf), is the Naish SLE Boxer 15m.
A very old kite of course, but I've kept it because it's such a fast and powerful kite for kitesurfing, and when the winds pick up to moderate - I am not overpowered. I don't know what it is, but this kite can take me for a fun mow from 9-10 knots up to 20knots.
For landboarding, it's even better and I can do some "ok" jumps - nothing too high.

My second favourite light wind kite is the Peter Lynn Synergy 19m. I was very disappointed with this kite when I first got it as it would not stay up there in less than 12knots! It just would not fly properly, kept stalling and had little power. The auto-zenith made it worse, because if it would not pull me hard, I had to yank the front lines to get it up above 10oclock. And when I dived it, it would pull me out of the water, but I had very little traction to keep going. It's slow!!!

But recently I discovered the Peter Lynn "way of flying kites" and playing with the bridles for less bar pressure. WOW! Now this thing is almost as good as my Naish Boxer. It still hates anything under 10knots, which for a so called 19m kite is very disappointing.

-mj- - 21-9-2016 at 07:45 AM

What is light wind?

For me it's when flying a kite feels more like work than actually having fun.

For depower that's sub 12kn. I know I can go lower with bigger kites but I like my kites nippy so too big, meh.

For FB I'd say sub 8kn, same ruling applies.

I fly mostly on land/hard packed, at sea level.

Bladerunner - 21-9-2016 at 01:53 PM

While I agree that mowing the lawn isn't exactly exciting. Almost like work but ..... I can't stand sitting there watching others. Seeing the biggest and most beautiful kites going by makes me want to be part of the parade.

Joining in was a struggle. I am light and so is my buggy. + I needed a solution for snow / stand up riding on the beach. The weapons of choice at Sunset are all 14 - 16m FB race kites. I am simply overwhelmed by the power in these kites as soon as I get moving. I thought I had found a reasonable size with my 10.8 Reactor. It ended up the only kite that has lofted me to about 20ft ( twice ) .

I have ended up using my 19m SA II so I can actually join in with those 14 - 16m kites. For me, the depower makes all the difference.

As much as I hate to admit it a big part of what I like about uber low wind riding is the show. The 1st day I saw a 19m SA II I told myself I would be owner and master of that beautiful kite one day. Parading it down the beach along with all the other huge kites is far more satisfying than waiting for stronger winds that ( around here ) aren't likely to come. My circumstance makes it that I end up the smallest person + buggy under the largest kite yet somehow it works! :Ange09:

I envy your life -mj-! I only wish I could hold out for 12+ winds! :bigok:

MotoFoo86 - 26-9-2016 at 07:31 PM

Used to be my Montana 8, 14m was my go to for low winds while this sometimes did the job it's more of a grunty/lifty 10+ mph plaything than a true low wind kite.

Enter my new pride and joy, the Flysurfer Speed 4 Lotus 21m. Need i say more?

Debating taking it to the Vord or not.

bigkid - 26-9-2016 at 07:57 PM

Not much of a low wind kite if it's just laying there, just saying.:D
It is a nice kite though. :thumbup:

abkayak - 26-9-2016 at 08:12 PM

Yea...I've seen lox that's moving more than that FS

MotoFoo86 - 26-9-2016 at 08:16 PM

Haters, i was super constrained for space whole park was full of soccer players. After a small jump i decided that it was unwise to go nuts, so i landed it and flipped the wingtip into the wind.

How's that Micro treating you

BeamerBob - 27-9-2016 at 08:07 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Bladerunner

While I agree that mowing the lawn isn't exactly exciting. Almost like work but ..... I can't stand sitting there watching others. Seeing the biggest and most beautiful kites going by makes me want to be part of the parade.

Joining in was a struggle. I am light and so is my buggy. + I needed a solution for snow / stand up riding on the beach. The weapons of choice at Sunset are all 14 - 16m FB race kites. I am simply overwhelmed by the power in these kites as soon as I get moving. I thought I had found a reasonable size with my 10.8 Reactor. It ended up the only kite that has lofted me to about 20ft ( twice ) .

I have ended up using my 19m SA II so I can actually join in with those 14 - 16m kites. For me, the depower makes all the difference.

As much as I hate to admit it a big part of what I like about uber low wind riding is the show. The 1st day I saw a 19m SA II I told myself I would be owner and master of that beautiful kite one day. Parading it down the beach along with all the other huge kites is far more satisfying than waiting for stronger winds that ( around here ) aren't likely to come. My circumstance makes it that I end up the smallest person + buggy under the largest kite yet somehow it works! :Ange09:

I envy your life -mj-! I only wish I could hold out for 12+ winds! :bigok:

I can vouch for Bladerunner's big 19m SA. He asked if I wanted to give it a go at SOBB last fall. It's like a rocket with a throttle and surprisingly nimble for a kite bigger than most of the cars parked by the dunes. I loved the 75 foot powerslides coming out of a turn.

Blade I agree there is something special about being able to make something from nothing in those light winds.

Kamikuza - 27-9-2016 at 07:28 PM

It's all about the board

nate76 - 28-9-2016 at 06:26 AM

Moto, looks like you got a nice light wind kite. Where are you using that out in Oregon?

I'm really starting to get the itch for winter....

MotoFoo86 - 28-9-2016 at 07:21 PM

It just arrived monday (the day i took the photo) i'm planning on using it at the beaches on the mountainboard, on my kiteboards at the cascade lakes (wikiup reservoir) and i'll probably take it out to Alvord next week as a super low wind buggy option but i'm not sold on that. I'm kinda wishing summer wasn't ending, lakes are getting cold again.

Demoknight - 3-10-2016 at 11:00 AM

The big Flysurfers are amazing in light wind. My Speed 3 Deluxe is silly strong and lifty in light winds.

Tomasz - 4-10-2016 at 09:47 AM

For a long time my PL Venom 16 was the kite of choice for light wind, but a few years ago I got a 7m Lynx & found it had pretty much the same low end, so I use that for 95% of my land excursions now days.

For the water I acquired 2 light wind kites this year, the Maui Cloud 17m and the AirRush Lithium Zero. I absolutely love the Cloud, I can get up & riding from about 10kts all the way up to about 20+. It's more agile than most of the 14s I've owned. My longest jump so far has been on that kite - 177ft. That's over half a football field!
The Lithium is a pig. It pulls like a freight train, but is sloooow. If you can park it & go, then you're getting a ride. It'll fly in about 2knots tho. I've done a downwind "mow" on a fairly small kiteboard (for my size) in about 3-4 knots. I've buggied with it a few times and got a ride when I couldn't even feel a breeze. The effective wind generated from going upwind was enough to keep it flying & generating power.

NorthernKitesAustralia - 5-10-2016 at 04:44 PM

This is me in a super light wind day (4knots), with my Slingshot Fuel 12m.
I had fun and I was able to go downwind at least.
Static flying is no problem (towards the end of the video)

https://youtu.be/naCDh8FoPqM

PistolPete - 6-10-2016 at 02:00 PM

Found most big foils fly static in low wind but some are not so useable.
Longer lines take them even lower but sometimes make them even less useable.

11m Ozone Razor
Lowest wind for land use, limited range

19m Flysurfer Speed2 Silver Arrow
Lowest wind on water, not just folklore

18m Pansh A15
Honorable mention, fun and useable in low wind

Quote: Originally posted by Kamikuza

It's all about the board

For low wind on the water, agreed... and now it is all about the foilboard