Power Kite Forum - Thinking about trying out an ARC

Thinking about trying out an ARC

SecondWind - 25-10-2007 at 03:32 PM

So what's the scoop on Peter Lynn Arcs? Are they really a pain to set up and launch by yourself?

I've never have had the chance to fly one. Any recommendations for winds above 12 mph?

16m or 13m Venom II?

I weigh 160 lbs and would be using it with the mountainboard, Dirtsurfer and skis.

Thanks!

Joe

Ashe - 25-10-2007 at 04:28 PM

Pm sent

Pablo - 25-10-2007 at 06:11 PM

While the 13m Venom is a sweet kite, I'd go with the 16m, these things really have wild top ends, I've buggied with the 13m Venom in 35mph winds no problem, but I needed 15mph to get going ok.

Lately I've been flying the 16m Scorpion which is on par for power with the 19m Venom and the 18m Phantom. I can get going on the buggy in about 10mph, ATB by 12mph, and on water in 14mph.

I've flown on blacktop with the atb and the 16m Scorp in 30mph winds without that much problems, low end is where they really die, if it's under 10mph I may as well leave the Scorpion in the bag.

Setup is easy, there's a couple low wind tricks like an electric leaf blower for pre inflation, but if you have proper wind, setup is easy, within 5 min, self launch and landing is easy and safe. It does take a bit to get the proper launch method figured out though, they like a little rear line tension on launch otherwise they'll shoot forward and the tips will clap. Feed in a little rear line tension and it'll keep the kite flaired out nice and wide as the kite finishes filling and climbing, once up they're bomb proof. I've flipped my buggy over and tied the kite to it for 1/2 hr while having lunch.

action jackson - 25-10-2007 at 07:17 PM

Ditto on the arcs, i had the 18m phantom out on the water to gust of 28 and the 15m phantom to gust of 38. The 13m is a great kite!These kites thrive on apprient wind. The more you edge againt the kite, faster you will go............aj

SecondWind - 25-10-2007 at 08:32 PM

Thanks for the info guys! I may just try one this winter

B-Roc - 26-10-2007 at 05:46 AM

One of the guys I kite ski with has used nothing but venoms for the past 2 years (he is also on the water). I would guess him to be around 160 pounds and his favorite and most used kite is the 13m. It has an enormous range and while I would cycle between my 2.5, 4 and 5.5m kites he never switched. Didn't matter the conditions, he just set up and launched and flew all day. It was a super stable kite but he suffered on the low end range for sure.

But, as advertised, it was a gust muncher. Though it did take him much longer to set up than I and I never saw him pack up. The auto zenith feature was real nice. At lunch he'd just attach the chicken loop to the ice screw and the kite would sit at the top of the window while he ate.

Nice kite from what I observed.

powerzone - 26-10-2007 at 08:10 AM

Hey DaVinch:

they will seem a bit awkward at first coming from bridled foils....be patient, you'll get the hang of it soon.

they are well built but not very aerodynamic or efficient... the projected area is ~2/3 of the actual kite size, so look at the PA when choosing your kite size.

relaunch is a process and a procedure.... nothing like the reverse launches of your Flysurfers or other quad foils...

safety is good... but again relaunch is annoying.

turning is uber fast with good power thru the turns.

bar pressure is high... like putting your FS on hard steering with a short bar.

depower is excellent.... gust absorbing is the best of any kite i've seen or flown.

i would say stick to the high aspect ARCs... lower AR are not as much fun.

BALUK is selling a 12m Phantom at a great price. bar and lines included... that would be the best way to get started with ARCs... the Phantom is awesome.

send him a U2U asap before its gone !!

acampbell - 26-10-2007 at 08:32 AM

Set-up is indeed different as noted, but they come with a video which couldn't be clearer. Pack up is so much easier than open-cell kites. fold in half with tips together and roll-up downwind towards the open zippered deflation vent. Easy even in high winds.

Love my Scorpion 10m but should have gotten larger now that I appreciate the adjustability and huge wind range. wonderfull buggy engine starting at 12 mph.

domdino - 26-10-2007 at 12:36 PM

These are some of the easiest kites and most stable kites in the world! They really are extremely easy to launch and land by yourself as well, as soon as you get used to it (which shouldn't take long) Especially now the newer ones have the launch assist tag thing.

I used arcs for a long time, and they are fantastic, i think they peaked with the venom II... i'm wondering what peter lynn are gonna do next, they really aren't very good at selling their kites over here! Had a go on a scorpion but i hear they need pretty delicate tuning so i can't really comment on that one much, apparently it's a good jumper though!

Really good kites though, especially in the smaller sizes. The 10m is always my fav, 13m close second if you weigh a bit more... They give you a massive amount of confidence though with their stability...

I've never crashed a peter lynn! You definitely start to outgrow them though and feel their lack of performance after you've been on them for a while and tried other kites in similar wind... still though, a great skill builder to lead you to something else!

Pablo - 26-10-2007 at 04:34 PM

The thing that still amazes me is the top end of these kites, With the 16m Scorpion, it's got adjusters to vary the bar pressure as well as to adjust the turn speed and power output. Had a great session with it down in Seaside for SOBB. With it set a little mellower I was ripping it up with my 16 on the ATB and Buggy while everyone else was on 1.5m up to 3m foils. Average guy was switching kites every 1/2 hr, the 16 stayed airbourn all day. Didn't have a chance to check out the top speed in the buggy, but she's easily quick enough to generate some huge pop and float. It was so nice to pop a little 5ft up jump and fly 30+ feet across. Go a bit bigger than you think, you'd be suprised what you can hold onto with these things.

Once again, Low wind absolutely bites with the ARCs.

SecondWind - 26-10-2007 at 06:50 PM

Thanks for the help guys! I pretty much setteled on a Venom II.

So what size would be similar to a 6 - 7m depowerable foil? A 13m?

Pablo - 26-10-2007 at 07:15 PM

A 13m would probably be good, maybe a hare more power, but you can get away with a larger ARC, better float as well, you'll love the top end.

SecondWind - 26-10-2007 at 07:20 PM

Thanks Pablo - I have my low end covered with the Silverarrow, so I think the 13m sounds good also after looking at this calculator:

http://www.kite-fantastic.co.uk/articles/mx5alan/arc-wind-ra...

SecondWind - 26-10-2007 at 07:24 PM

Pablo - how much do you weigh?

Quote:

Originally posted by Pablo
While the 13m Venom is a sweet kite, I'd go with the 16m, these things really have wild top ends, I've buggied with the 13m Venom in 35mph winds no problem, but I needed 15mph to get going ok.

Lately I've been flying the 16m Scorpion which is on par for power with the 19m Venom and the 18m Phantom. I can get going on the buggy in about 10mph, ATB by 12mph, and on water in 14mph.

I've flown on blacktop with the atb and the 16m Scorp in 30mph winds without that much problems, low end is where they really die, if it's under 10mph I may as well leave the Scorpion in the bag.

Setup is easy, there's a couple low wind tricks like an electric leaf blower for pre inflation, but if you have proper wind, setup is easy, within 5 min, self launch and landing is easy and safe. It does take a bit to get the proper launch method figured out though, they like a little rear line tension on launch otherwise they'll shoot forward and the tips will clap. Feed in a little rear line tension and it'll keep the kite flaired out nice and wide as the kite finishes filling and climbing, once up they're bomb proof. I've flipped my buggy over and tied the kite to it for 1/2 hr while having lunch.

lunchbox - 26-10-2007 at 07:56 PM

It will be interesting to see if future models of the ARC 'fix' the bottom end issue or if the ARC design has already reached its max. potential.

DaVinch - Definitely try an ARC...they are great kites. And in my opinion the 13 is the way to go!

SecondWind - 26-10-2007 at 08:02 PM

Thanks Lunchbox - I'm trying to figure out if a 13m or 16m would be better for land. Sounds like the 13m may be better for my weight...

Pablo - 26-10-2007 at 08:25 PM

PL has a couple tricks up their sleeve, I think they're working on something new, The Scorpion came out light years ahead of the Phantom for a land based Arc, sounds like they're up to the same with the Venom replacement.

lunchbox - 26-10-2007 at 08:25 PM

Yeah DaVinch, you really won't save that much on the bottom end with the 16 and you'll gain quite a bit more on the top end...Plus it's a quicker turning kite so you might be able to use it at the same bottom end...just have to work the kite more...

BTW, if you end up getting one, let me know,,,I've got a few tips for launching that seem to work pretty well.

lunchbox - 26-10-2007 at 08:35 PM

Whatcha hear Pablo...anything worth sharing on that Venom replacement :yes:

Off topic here also, but it will be interesting to see what Ozone can add to the mix when they release the Vision!

domdino - 27-10-2007 at 11:22 AM

Go for the 13! I mean, i'm not very heavy, but i could get going on a landboard with the 13 in about 8mph and it felt great... and i could fly it up around 30mph on my landboard too

they have a great windrange on land... not so much on water. I had a 16 for a little while and they still have a great top end but it was definitely overdoing it for me a bit sometimes! I felt like i could take anything with the 13!!

Oh... i would look into trying to get an older bar as well, the zero 7 bar is crappy... or at least try and adjust is, i really didn't like the move of the safety to the rear lines, even if it does stop the tangling problem...

Pablo - 27-10-2007 at 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lunchbox
Whatcha hear Pablo...anything worth sharing on that Venom replacement :yes:

Off topic here also, but it will be interesting to see what Ozone can add to the mix when they release the Vision!

I'm told it's on the way and worth the wait by reliable sources, I don't have more than that to throw in the pot at this point.

But PL has quite a few pattens out on a variety of ideas that they've been messing around with, Something about Naish having to make a deal with them for the Helix design.

I've seen how far ahead the Scorpion is from the old Phantom, Personally I think once you get the Scorpion figured out it'll beat the Venom on the water as well. One thing is for sure, PL isn't looking to put out a kite that's just a little better than the Venom series.

domdino - 27-10-2007 at 05:20 PM

Do you reckon that ozone vision is ever actually gonna come out?!

Very interested to see whatever peter lynn come up with next! What's this about the helix design??

SecondWind - 27-10-2007 at 06:26 PM

Well...I'm going for the 13m Venom II! I appreciate all the help - I'll let you know how the first flight goes. I plan on watching that instructional video a bunch before I go out :lol:

Pablo - 27-10-2007 at 07:11 PM

As said above, only 2 things to really worry bout on the launch, pre-inflation, and rear line tension.

If it's pre-inflated to 80+percent it'll usually go up no problem.

Rear line tension, once the kite's off the ground it'll want to shoot forwards, if this happens without enough air in the kite the tips tend to clap, putting some tension on the rear lines will slow the kite down and prevent the clapping, takes a couple tries to get enough tension to prevent the clapping and not enough to stall the kite, should figure it out after a couple tries. Get it right and you'll never blow another launch.

SecondWind - 27-10-2007 at 08:14 PM

Good deal - I think I'm ready.

SecondWind - 8-11-2007 at 09:32 PM

Well...no Venoms in stock and with all this chatter about a new kite from PL coming out around Dec, I think I'll wait to see what the new kite has to offer :yes:

lunchbox - 8-11-2007 at 11:42 PM

Hey DaVinch...had a friend that was looking for a Venom II and had the same problem...none in stock.

Heard the new Venom II replacement is called the synergy (sp) and I also heard the delivery date was mid 2 late December.

Anyone on this forum got some pics or more information on this kite...can't wait to hear/see and eventually fly it.

domdino - 9-11-2007 at 09:22 AM

Hummm i really wanna know whats going on with thiss synergy, it's all so secretive! Its meant to be released very soon and yet we've heard nothing at all about it!

lunchbox - 9-11-2007 at 07:55 PM

Yeah Dom,,,know what you mean...surprised we haven't heard anything yet especially since delivery is mid Dec?? I posted the question on racekites.com so we'll see if anyone has heard anything over there.

Off topic here but we're having a low tide (0) tomorrow...Did you ever find a good landboarding beach out here that blew onshore the majority of the time and didn't have kiting restrictions?

domdino - 9-11-2007 at 09:02 PM

I've been on venice beach before, so long as there's no one around it's good... probably is, it's saturday and i'm sure lots of people will be walking their dogs around! You could go down to seal beach though, i'm sure you could get away with it there and get some pretty good riding in! I really think it's worth trying to hit the water though if you're living in LA!

I used to drive past the goodyear blimp field ALL the time as well and think, i wonder if they'd let me kite on there if i asked... i never asked, you should try though!

Would be a good spot!

Taper123 - 11-11-2007 at 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by acampbell

Love my Scorpion 10m

I got to fly my first Arc yesterday, a 10M Scorpion.

Light winds, around 10mph, but after a short time found myself doing kite loops with it while static flying. Rode around a little in the buggy with it, and can't wait for some wind to really test it out.

Leaky bladders on my LEI's is what moved me to try out an ARC. Now I can see why people fly them. Stable, responsive, and very fast through the window.

SecondWind - 11-11-2007 at 06:48 PM

How was inflating/launching taper?

action jackson - 11-11-2007 at 06:54 PM

Today: I sailed my boat about 7 miles to a local beach on the bay of Galveston. I anchored about 250 yards from the beach. The winds were light when i got there.About 10 mph onshore. I loaded the phantom 18m,board and harness(Thanks Steve) in the dingy and motored to shore. I set the kite up and launched it. It sat at the top no problem. I pulled the dink to deeper water and motored back to the boat with the kite still attached to me but depowered. I tied the dink to "Caddo's Dream" and hooked the kite to a carbeaner and line to a cleat. I waited for 45 minutes for the wind to build. It was blowing 15 when i decided its time. I sat back in the dink and hooked the kite to me. I just let the kite pull me onshore. I then kiteboarded for an hour+ till i made upwind of the boat. At that time i kited to the boat and tied the board and kite off. Well its time for a smoke and red bull. Spend 20 minutes onboard and off i go. After another hour of play and I surf back to the beach. Land the kite, roll it up and load it in the dink and motor back to the boat. Now tell me will any other kite do this?.........aj

47b7da04b3127cce98548f61a52700000017100EYtm7Vs3ZsQ.jpg - 42kB

47b7da04b3127cce98548f61a52700000017100EYtm7Vs3ZsQ.jpg - 42kB

SecondWind - 11-11-2007 at 07:04 PM

Sounds like a great day!

acampbell - 12-11-2007 at 05:17 AM

I had my Scorpion out yesterday. Went to St. Simons Island instead, as the sand bar at low tide gives me an east-west beam reach against a NNE wind. It was such a nice day, there were a lot of people out and I kept getting boxed in by beach walkers, requiring me to stop frequently to wait for them to pass. It's nice to be able to sit in the bug, let go of the bar and enjoy the surroundings or chat with someone without even having to look at the kite.

lunchbox - 12-11-2007 at 09:48 AM

Quote:

Today: I sailed my boat about 7 miles to a local beach on the bay of Galveston. I anchored about 250 yards from the beach. The winds were light when i got there.About 10 mph onshore. I loaded the phantom 18m,board and harness(Thanks Steve) in the dingy and motored to shore. I set the kite up and launched it. It sat at the top no problem. I pulled the dink to deeper water and motored back to the boat with the kite still attached to me but depowered. I tied the dink to "Caddo's Dream" and hooked the kite to a carbeaner and line to a cleat. I waited for 45 minutes for the wind to build. It was blowing 15 when i decided its time. I sat back in the dink and hooked the kite to me. I just let the kite pull me onshore. I then kiteboarded for an hour+ till i made upwind of the boat. At that time i kited to the boat and tied the board and kite off. Well its time for a smoke and red bull. Spend 20 minutes onboard and off i go. After another hour of play and I surf back to the beach. Land the kite, roll it up and load it in the dink and motor back to the boat. Now tell me will any other kite do this?.........aj

That would be my perfect day...man, am I jealous!

Taper123 - 12-11-2007 at 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DaVinch
How was inflating/launching taper?

Was not bad... I was having a hard time figuring out how to launch it at first, and AJ walks up while hooked into a Phantom and gives it a try... whoosh... it's in the air. The video that comes with the kite gives good directions... I should have viewed it a couple more times first. But now I think I can get it with no problem. (little mistakes like weighing the tip WAY down in light winds were a part of my launching problem).

Hoping for some winds at DeadBird to give it another try.

SecondWind - 12-11-2007 at 06:38 PM

Sounds good Taper - do you have any other sizes or just the 10m?

Thanks!

Taper123 - 12-11-2007 at 06:49 PM

I have the 10m Scorpion, and a 15 and 18 Phantom (ok ok... so the 15 is the wife's).

action jackson - 12-11-2007 at 07:09 PM

It was one of the highlights of my kiting days, to step out the back door and have the kite waiting for you already in the air. I sure i will be repeating this several more times and i will get photos someday........aj

Quote:

Originally posted by lunchbox

Quote:

That would be my perfect day...man, am I jealous!

SecondWind - 16-11-2007 at 03:39 PM

Here is some news about the new PL Synergy!

http://www.peterlynnkiteboarding.com/news/news026.html

kiteNH - 16-11-2007 at 04:57 PM

Is "ARC" an acronym for something (like LEI)? Or does this just refer to the twin skin style kites that Peter Lynn makes because they have an arc like shape?

I've tried some PKF and google searches and can't figure it out what the acronym would be.

Baluk - 16-11-2007 at 09:51 PM

Yep. Arc just stands for Arc. Its the PL Twinskin kites.

canuck - 17-11-2007 at 11:30 AM

Hey Joe,

Did you ever get a Venom?

Bill

SecondWind - 17-11-2007 at 04:50 PM

Hey Canuck - I tried to order a 13m VII, but they were out of stock.

So I figured I would wait to hear the reviews on the Synergy before buying one :yes: