Power Kite Forum - cheapest de-power kite that I can use on water?

cheapest de-power kite that I can use on water?

nubb1337 - 25-4-2009 at 12:10 PM

so I'm kinda short on money and am looking for the cheapest de-power kite that I can use on water...any ideas? I would like it to be ready to fly (I'm kinda new)

Thanks :yes:

SCREWYFITS - 25-4-2009 at 12:52 PM

You looS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-n for new, used, LEI, closed cell Foil, twinskin...

This is kind of a vague question...

If your new (or "kinda new") I'd suggest lessons, the instructor should supply all the gear for you to learn... If you have experience then you'll skip the trainer kite and move to body drags...

They will most likely put you on a LEI (inflatable) and if you where to stick with inflatables (made specifically for water, but can be multipurpose) you could look for a used one (real cheep, $100-$300) "Ikitesurf.com", but the older you get'em the less safety they have as the safety is developing very quickly... If you want new "Best Kiteboarding" is probably what you'll want to look at, inexpensive and good quality and good flying capabilities...

Assuming someone is new: Safety is a huge issue with beginning kiters and most start out with a trainer and work their way up... starting out, one should do a lil research and they'll be making educated decisions on what they end up with and the learning curve should improve quicker if they start from the beginning...

My suggestion is grab a used kite from one to two years old at most, should cost you apx $300 to $600 RTF and still have good safety features and fly like a dream... also check with the locals to find out the best size for local conditions so you get max fly time with out a three kite quiver...

Good luck, and be safe...

nubb1337 - 25-4-2009 at 01:06 PM

I have a HQ rush 250, so I know the basics of kiting and I've been reading 'how to kite' guides ALL day...:wee:

but I guess I LEI kite? just anything that you can fly on water :P

SCREWYFITS - 25-4-2009 at 01:29 PM

Your Rush should serve as a great trainer...

The point you'll want to get too is where you can fly the kite without looking at it and know where it is... You'll be able to move on before that, but it's a realistic goal to help progress faster on the water... anytime you start moving by the power of a kite you'll want to be able to focus on the direction and steering, so knowing where the kite is without looking is a valuable talent to own...

Like before, I think I'd steer you toward a LEI... new I'd say "Best Kites" like a Waroo, and used, a 07-08 Best Waroo should prove to be a great starter with room to excel... (there are a ton of great used kites if you're willing to hunt for them, but know what you want) again try and talk with some locals to find the best size for local conditions...

also a heads up, the depower in a size that you can use on the water is going to be a huge jump in power but nice as you'll be able to throttle the power... so be prepared... they are real fun, and real powerful...

Keep us in the loop on your progress, hang in there, there should be more advice from others, and I recommend to get as much advice as you can "more is better"...

Fly hard, Fly safe...

nubb1337 - 25-4-2009 at 01:47 PM

Yeah I can pretty much fly the kite without looking at it. I've had a little stunt kite experience so that helped too.

would something like this be good?
http://www.kite-line.com/bargains/kitesDetails.php?l=0&i...

or this?
http://www.oceanextremesports.com/catalog/2008-best-waroo-me...

nubb1337 - 25-4-2009 at 03:05 PM

I'm actually going to try and find a used kite on Ikitesurf.com

SCREWYFITS - 25-4-2009 at 03:32 PM

Both of those kite are fantastic kites, I just think they are way too small, unless you weigh under a 100lbs and fly in 30+ winds, that's why I was pressing the whole find out from your locals what kite is the best all around size... here where I live a 11-13m is the best all around size and can fly most of the days in our season... I have a 9m and I have to wait for higher winds...

Ikitesurf has great deals, just be sure you feel comfortable with the seller, if you can pay by paypal or some secure way to feel safe is the way to go, I don't think there are any shady deals on there but I'm always skeptical... if they are local even better...

nubb1337 - 25-4-2009 at 03:54 PM

Well I weigh about 180 lbs, and the usual winds are about 10-15, but some days are 20+(which is very rare though)

What about a 7m?

kiteNH - 25-4-2009 at 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by nubb1337
Well I weigh about 180 lbs, and the usual winds are about 10-15, but some days are 20+(which is very rare though)

What about a 7m?

At least a 12m SLE if you're going the LEI rout in those winds. Might be a big jump from the Rush to that though. You should get lessons before going on the water.

nubb1337 - 25-4-2009 at 04:24 PM

If I got a LEI would I still be able to use it on land?

SCREWYFITS - 25-4-2009 at 04:47 PM

Quote:

If I got a LEI would I still be able to use it on land?

[Add in] Yes!!! no problem, just don't crash it into twigs, rocks and trees very hard...

My guess would be a 13-15m (leaning towards the 13m), I think the 7m would just start to hit it's low end range at 23mph...

These LEI depowers take two or three sizes bigger to produce the power of a foil, plus water has a lot of drag so you need the extra power there too... Also the range on the depowers are huge compared to the foils... according to Best there 15m Waroo has a range of 9-24 knots (that's apx. 10-28mph) the 13m Waroo's range is 11-27 knots (apx. 13-31mph) so a 15m would be perfect, to learn I'd stick with the 13m... It is such a great idea to find out what the locals suggest in size as they know whats up and are usually cool as heII...

If you are at a norm of 10-15mph I would guess the 13-15m would be just fine, there are guys taking 15-17m in that wind with ease most guys are taking there 13m out in 25-30mph...

I'm surprised no one else is chiming in to help out here... I'm no where near an expert so I'd like for you to get extra advice, and not just follow what I've been saying...
[add in] thanx kiteNH for helping...

I "HIGHLY" recommend instruction from someone qualified, it's invaluable (imperative in my opinion) and I understand that it's pricey, but you will be glad you did, and it will be the best $$$ spent... otherwise you might end up with 2-3 kites that you can't use till you've been kiting a couple years, and then they're out dated... (Talking from experience on that one) I bought a kite before I took lessons and I still don't use it... $330 down the drain, that coulda went toward another used kite in a lil newer and bigger size...

Good luck, a lot of decisions to be made... its good fun and don't get discouraged because you will absolutely love it once you get going...

nubb1337 - 25-4-2009 at 04:58 PM

haha trust me. From a beginners stand point you've been TONS of help!!! THANKS A LOT!!!! :D

I plan to get some lessons once I get a kite. So I guess I will get a 13m kite of some kind. Are Naish and Eclipse's good kites?

SCREWYFITS - 25-4-2009 at 05:13 PM

I know that Naish's are great, my helix is so amazing, and, I use it on land... not sure about the Eclipse's, I've heard decent reviews about them, but not for sure... the Naish Cult & Cult Sport are supposed to be sick Daddy!!!
Carbinha, Best, Flexifoil, Ozone, Slingshot, Eclipse and Airush are all going to have bad a$$ kites in the 07-09 models (and some even older), I think I'd recommend a hybrid, SLE or a ARC style and steer you clear of the C style kites, as they are a lil aggressive and made more for the advanced rider...

nubb1337 - 25-4-2009 at 05:55 PM

Well I'm new, so could someone fill me in on what hybrid, SLE and ARC kites are?

stetson05 - 25-4-2009 at 10:23 PM

"I plan to get some lessons once I get a kite."

Just a thought, get the lessons first to get a better idea of what you want to fly. Lessons should be cheaper than the kite and then you are less likely to wish you had gotten something different.
Good luck and fly safe.

nubb1337 - 26-4-2009 at 04:51 AM

How do I know if kites are the "C" type kites or not?

clintopher - 26-4-2009 at 05:01 AM

C kites don't have any bridles...just two lines going to each end and usually a 5th line for safety/relaunch. Slingshot Fuel and Ocean Rodeo Diablo are examples of C kites. The kite companies are putting the majority of there efforts into the newer shapes...hybrid, bow, delta, shaped kites because that's what most people are flying these days.

nubb1337 - 26-4-2009 at 05:34 AM

ohh ok thanks

nubb1337 - 26-4-2009 at 08:45 AM

I will let everyone know what happens:bouncy:

Bladerunner - 26-4-2009 at 08:59 AM

Stetson has some of the best advice !

I wasted a LOT of money buying kites before I had a clue how to fly them. Or got the wrong one for my skill level.

The most important thing to learn in this sport is PATIENCE.

Fly that trainer kite and watch good DVD lessons . Get a lesson. Only then get a good kite. DON'T take the lessons if you can't buy a kite right after and keep it up. Very often the shop that offers the lesson will then give you a huge cut on your kite / board purchase.

You need to change your approach in 2 ways !

Don't rush in to purchases.
DON'T use the CHEAPEST as a major part of your choic.e In this sport cheapest is usually a mistake. Either quality or safety will be lacking. I am a cheep:moon: myself but I purchase Quality, second hand gear over the cheapest , new.

Questions are free and opinions are plenty. Try and hook up with locals !

kiteNH - 26-4-2009 at 09:33 AM

If you don't know how to figure out whether a kite is a C kite or not then you shouldn't be buying a kite yet. Those kites aren't toys.

You ought to pick up a few beginner kite surfing DVD's like the progression series. They would be great to watch before lessons and would help answer some questions. I'd hold off on buying a kite until after lessons as well.

nubb1337 - 26-4-2009 at 09:39 AM

Well the thing is there's not a beach/kite shop within 2 hours of me. That's why I was a duel-purpose kite so I can ride on land and water.

I plan to pick up some kiting dvd's though. :thumbup:

gilligan - 26-4-2009 at 11:04 AM

Nubb-

I have a couple of "C" kites in pretty good shape cheap... sent you a U2 message.

Bob

nubb1337 - 26-4-2009 at 05:10 PM

Thanks, but no thanks. People are saying that a C kite would be to much for me to handle.

jknight_706 - 27-4-2009 at 04:32 AM

A whole ton of advice here and it's good. My best piece of advice is wear a helmet. Seriously.

I'm self taught and made all the mistakes here everyone is talking about. OVerall, start small and practice. Enjoy the small kites. Experiment with them. Fly them on land and body drag a bit in shallow water. Get a harness and hook up to your trainer and try that out.

When you are ready to move up to a bigger kite and get out on the water, your best bet is second hand gear from a top brand. Look around the forum, most people display what they are flying and you'll see the same names time and time again. Peter Lynn, Flysurfer, Ocean Rodeo, Flexifoil, Ozone, etc.

Give me a shout on U2U if you have specific questions. I would be happy to answer them. Good luck!

nubb1337 - 27-4-2009 at 06:05 AM

I was planning on getting a motocross helmet not matter what. I was also going to wear knee pads, elbow pads, ect...

Already done it (well kinda) :wee:

nubb1337 - 27-4-2009 at 06:11 AM

THANKS EVERYONE FOR BEING SO HELPFUL! I would be completely lost without all this help :P

What is a fairly good harness? (either waist or seat)

OR better yet, would y'all recommend a waist or seat harness?

DenisLaMenace - 27-4-2009 at 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by SCREWYFITS
These LEI depowers take two or three sizes bigger to produce the power of a foil, plus water has a lot of drag so you need the extra power there too... Also the range on the depowers are huge compared to the foils... according to Best there 15m Waroo has a range of 9-24 knots (that's apx. 10-28mph) the 13m Waroo's range is 11-27 knots (apx. 13-31mph) so a 15m would be perfect, to learn I'd stick with the 13m... It is such a great idea to find out what the locals suggest in size as they know whats up and are usually cool as heII...

I dont agree with saying that LEI have more depower than foils.

We need to compare apples with apples. Modern LEI have great depower such do moderm foils like Flysurfer recent models, and especially the P4 with the triple depower effect.

Old LEI don't have good depower the same as older Foils

Be aware that wind ranges on manufacturer web site are often marketing bullsh.t

I had a few sessions with my P4 15m on snow + water and still comfortable while most riders were on LEI 2-4m smaller.

And on the other hand, LEI low ends are getting better and getting close to foils (making abstraction of Flysurfer Speed2/SA2) . In order to say a foil = a LEI 2m bigger, it all depends on which type of foil, type and brand of the LEI. Some LEI like the Cabrinha Crossbow, or the Cabarete EH Freakdog have surprising low end for a tube.

The math formula to evaluate the performance of a kite versus another is now much complex.

snobdr - 27-4-2009 at 06:56 PM

We went through this already in another thread.

Do yourself a favor. Drive 2 hours and get lessons.

Your going to end up getting hurt.

SCREWYFITS - 3-5-2009 at 06:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DenisLaMenace

Quote:

DennisLM,
I was making comments based on the title of this thread, not etching in stone, and is there apples to apples in this sport? Flysurfer P4 vs Best Waroo, by far not apples to apples, more like Ferrari vs VW... Flysurfer P4 vs the best LEI available, now that would be a great debate, but one I could not argue in based me haven't flown either one yet!!! $$$ vs $$$ LEI seems to have more depower than foils "in my opinion" I'm not putting any flysurfer down by any means...
No harm no foul, lets get this guy (nubb1337) off to a great start safely within his budget then we can taint his brain with all the goodies!!!

nubb1337 - 12-5-2009 at 05:18 PM

Ok, so I've been lurking around Ikitesurf.com looking for a good deal and here's what I found. A 2004 Niash V4 for 150 complete. What do you think?

PHREERIDER - 12-5-2009 at 06:05 PM

i have one .

it not a depowerable kite like a bow with a bridle.

it is a lei c-kite. very powerful its med. AR allows for decent handling. i like it. for water and land . this version is considered a "nervous" kite. it dosen't like to sit still. alot of constant input and attention. it favored my flying syle at first.

this type of kite really likes to be left open without much sheeting action, pretty much on or off.

the series that replaced this kite Boxer (it is a c-kite as well)
much friendlier and stable. one of don montague's best all-around rigs. kinda decent for anything

lei c-kites to me represent true machined apex power

150 is a steal if the rig is solid. but most would n't touch it because it is a c-kite. a punishing piece of garbage. sad but true. naish put a lot kites on the planet

nubb1337 - 12-5-2009 at 06:36 PM

So your saying don't get it? I most likely not get it because it's a 2004 model.

PHREERIDER - 12-5-2009 at 07:17 PM

it not a beginner kite. and you'll need to know how to repair it.

Bladerunner - 13-5-2009 at 07:51 AM

Not a good choice !

If you MUST get an older C kite it should have a minimum of a fifth line attachment and a 5 line bar.

As a rule of thumb, most kites got a lot better / safer from 05 on.

nubb1337 - 13-5-2009 at 07:54 AM

yeah I'm not going to buy any kite that's older than 06. When did they start putting D-power bars on kites?

Bladerunner - 13-5-2009 at 07:57 AM

I think about 2,000 ? Good question !

Was it Wipiki or Naish ???????

Or ...... was there a depower foil 1st ?

nubb1337 - 13-5-2009 at 08:05 AM

ok, so that's a big "I don't know" hahahahaah

So mean time while I was waiting for a good deal to pop up on Ikitesurf I ordered the Progression Beginner Series and that helped me A LOT with understanding stuff :bigok:

USA_Eli_A - 13-5-2009 at 09:12 AM

we had a wipika in 1990, not depower, but inflatable 2 line scary

PHREERIDER - 13-5-2009 at 09:21 AM

2006 was the experimental year for tubes on the depower road

2007 best for bow and depower tubes

lei '90 2-line ......ready for your lesson grasshopper!

nubb1337 - 15-5-2009 at 06:10 AM

How about a "2007 Blade Kites Vertigo Hybird kite. C shape with bridal on LE"for 200/w bar and everything? do hybrid kites have a lower wind range than normal LEI kites?

rudeboysaude - 22-5-2009 at 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by PHREERIDER
2006 was the experimental year for tubes on the depower road

2007 best for bow and depower tubes

lei '90 2-line ......ready for your lesson grasshopper!

I started on a '02 fuel and it was a 4 line depower C kite. Are you taking about bridled LEI kites with this date range?

I must be a hardened old fool because I'm still a fan of the old raw power of kites. I don't like the new flat kites. I like firm bar pressure and lots of power, not that loose feeling. If I could go back again all those years ago, I probably wouldn't learn on a Fuel, but I survived with no injuries. The most important thing is making sure that the kite has a safety system that will release the kites power, and a back up to release the kite if you need to and knowing how to use it properly at a moments notice. Then any kite can be fun.

I'm going to wait till all those old C kites are $50 and snatch them all up and stockpile them!

PHREERIDER - 22-5-2009 at 06:01 PM

should have narrowed it with "bow" SLE with a bridle.

yes the flat bow kites, i felt like they have enormous depower range certainly when compared to older four line kites

yes i love my old c-kite which are 04 /05 . really taught me alot about flow of power and kite control