I have way too many kites, and none of them are the latest models, but I've flown them enough to have preferences and more-or-less understand why they work the way they do:

PL Arcs -at least the Guerilla I & II's and the Venom I I have flown - are good at absorbing gusts, having 'autostability' or positive fore-aft stability. If hit by a gust at the zenith, they don't overfly much and they settle back into the window on their own without you paying attention to them. I surmise this is due to the combination of foil sections ( they use reflex sections in the shoulders and tips, and sometimes in the center of the kite), combined with twist distribution and location of the center of pressure of the individual cells.

Additionally, Arcs generally autozenith, or have positive lateral stability, such that they seek the zenith if the bar is released. This is because their center of lateral resistance is ahead of their center of gravity enough to steer them back to the center of the window if they are falling off to the side. They don't hit the ground often, but they are harder to roll over than my LEI bows, and they don't reverse launch like a foil, fixed bridle or depower.

My LEI bows have even better depower range than the aforementioned arcs, but they aren't autostable - you can dump the pull & power in an instant, even ripping across the window to just barely enough to keep the kite aloft, but you have to pay attention to the kite. It won't settle itself down automatically in gusts.

As Angus mentioned, LEI bows will just sit on the ground at the edge of the window. Not a good place to leave them because of where and lines on the ground, but they behave well there. But that same trait also means they won't autozenith. Their center of lateral resistance is behind the center of gravity enough that the it means the kite will keep falling off to the side if you don't give steering input. In MN, we get gusty inland winds and cold winters. I don't think pumping them up is that big a deal, and mine don't even have single point inflation.

I'll admit I usually go for the foils or Arcs if it's below zero (F, not C) out. And same for the buggy, but I've beat my bows quite a bit on icy lakes and grass fields and not popped a bladder yet. I don't landboard, but will say switching from handles to abr is not a big deal - handles are nice on fixed bridles.

krumly

Thanks for all your advice

I have decided to opt for a foil for my first kite. I will be looking for a kite that is useable on handles (to start) and a bar a bit later on. I was advised by my instructor that I should look at the rage, or the blurr (something that is not too lifty, even though I am really looking forward to getting some air!). I am 6ft 3" and weigh 195lbs / 14 st.

I think I have narrowed my favourites to these five:-

Flexi Rage
Flexi Blurr (I read that this was primarily for buggying?)
Flexi blade (too lifty in 4m?)
Ozone Flow
PL Twister II

I was told previously that the Twister II works very well with a controll bar setup. The Ozone kites look to be very good quality, and I must say that these two are probably my fav's of the bunch. The Rage is also a very good kite according to some reviews I read.

What are your opinions on these kites?

Bladerunner, you mentioned that a new kite would not be your best money, does this apply to foils as well? Really feel like just ordering something now!

PT1905

Add the HQ Powerkites Scout to that list. Agus started me on that as my first powerkite - it comes ready to fly with a 4 line bar (no depower) and flies really quick for a bar fixed bridle.
I really love it and still use it for high wind days now. I have the 4m, which workes for the little windier days on the coast for boarding and almost always for static flying. For a little less windier spots you might have to go for the 5m, I weight around 210lbs and ride a landboard.

The bar comes with a d-loop which you can hook into a harness when you learned how to fly it, this then saves you a lot of pain after long sessions :-)

The Rage and Blurr are both low-lift buggy engines by design, but there is nothing stopping you from using them on a land board. I have not flown the Blurr on a bar and don;t know how it will do there, but the Rage flies fine on a bar. The Blurr is more recent and much higher performance than the Rage. Still easy to fly; just more refined.

The Blade's aggressiveness might be a distraction on a land board while learning. Imagine someone literally jerking you around at every gust while learning to balance.

Twister II is much more smooth on power build-up than the Blade and a fine high lift kite. I was however disappointed in how it flew on a bar. You really have to play with brake tension just right and even then I found myself giving up more finesse and turning speed than I am used to when switching to a bar. I had a customer (new flier) return a Twister on a bar thinking there was something wrong with it. That guy is now VERY happy with a Rage on handles that he traded up to.

Edit: Ooops, forgot the Flow. The Flow is nice and I bet would do well on a bar. I have low time on mine but it is a nice kite for all-around rec. flying. Not real high lift.

Remember that you do not have to use a bar on a land-board. It is common but not a rule.

Quote:

Originally posted by tobytobsen Add the HQ Powerkites Scout to that list. Agus started me on that as my first powerkite - it comes ready to fly with a 4 line bar (no depower) and flies really quick for a bar fixed bridle. I really love it and still use it for high wind days now. I have the 4m, which workes for the little windier days on the coast for boarding and almost always for static flying. For a little less windier spots you might have to go for the 5m, I weight around 210lbs and ride a landboard. The bar comes with a d-loop which you can hook into a harness when you learned how to fly it, this then saves you a lot of pain after long sessions :-)

Good call Toby, thanks. 'Been a long day and I forgot. The Scout is really purpose built for land boarding and is also a great all around rec. kite.

Quote:

The Flow is nice and I bet would do well on a bar. I have low time on mine but it is a nice kite for all-around rec. flying. Not real high lift.

So as this does not have high lift, it would probably fit my criteria as a landboard begginner, and also be of a similar comparison to the Blurr?

I love my Flow, I think it's a great kite. Assuming that you order it with handles, it will come with a strop which will let you hook in if you have a harness. The bar that comes with the Flow comes with a CL to hook into.

The Flow is an all around recreational kite and the Blurr is purpose built as a go fast buggy engine and will reach upwind better

which should I get? lol

Flow 3.0 , 4.0
Blurr 3.5

Just wanted to mention that I found the Blurr to have quite a bit of lift as well (probably from it's speed) but lift just the same...It was also very stable as well and fast.

Rage was really good but definitely not as powerful as the Blurr.

Blade is great but too much lift when you're just starting out.

Liked the Twister II but too slow on the re-direct for me...but that might not be a bad thing and that might improve in higher winds..not sure.

Haven't tried the Flow but I love the Cult!

IMHO and in your situation, I'd go with the Blurr or Twister II...

IMHO again the taller and bigger you are, the more the kite will hand you your arse I reckon it's something to do with leverage and moment of inertia :D

Pick your wind carefully when you're beginning ...

PT -

If you are flying inland in gusty winds, I also highly recommend PKD Brooza's, especially the 3 and 4m. They are soemtimes considered an 'intermediate' kite, a bit higher aspect and faster, but they aren't bad to learn on.
Build quality is excellent - comparable to Ozone -and they are quite forgiving in gusts. Small inlets let you hot launch more easily, since the kite takes a bit longer to fill when it leaves the ground. It also helps them keep their shape in gusts or when they overfly so the don't collapse so fast. New models come with bridle trim adjusters that let you tune the angle of attack.

They don't have much market share - bigkid on this forum sells them out in Washington (no affiliation - he's just the only dealer I know of in US)

krumly

Hi

I've finally made the order! I've opted for a 3.5M Rage in rasta colourway on handles. Should be with me in the first week of January. Good Times!

I asked my instructor:

Quote:

You mentioned that I was not ready to go out and buy a LEI, but do you think I would be able to go out on a small foil to learn more in my own time?

His reply:

Quote:

Virtually nothing that we did today on the LEI applies. With the LEI you control the kite totally differently to the foil. That said your understanding of the wind window seemed good, and you picked up the control of the smaller kite well so I think just a 1hr lesson, covering the difference in set up safety and flying technique would be sufficient.

Would you say it's necessary to take this lesson or should I save the money and take it to the local field to start learning by myself?

Have I made a good choice by ordering the Rage ? Hope so, because it's too late now!

PT1905

I wouldn't bother with the lessons for a small FB. The lessons are far more relevant when you're talking big LEI's than small foils. Besides, you have your respect for the wind now after being spanked by the 7m, once you have the correct respect then just take things slowly and think them through. Take it to the local field and starting getting to know the kite. The two main issues for folks just starting out with small FBs are line management (avoiding tangles) and proper brake usage with the 4 line handle setup (watch your brake lines carefully, and pay real close attention to how it flies with those lines tight or loose, on one side or both).

btw, I mentioned something about wide wind range with the 3-4 m fixed bridle much earlier in this thread... The small fixed bridle will be flyable in a wide range of winds, but will only be powered up in the upper part of its wind range. With a bigger depower you will have a wider wind range when powered up, but you'll lose a significant amount of low-wind flyability NOT powered up over the small FB, if that makes sense. In other words, the small FB will allow you to fly a wide range of winds from almost nothing up to around 20-25 mph, but you'll only be powered up starting around 12-15 mph. However, the kite will fly (but not pull much) starting around 4-6 mph, which allows you to start developing your skills in a wide range of winds. Part of the confusion is from using the words "wind range" two different ways -- just being able to fly the kite static as opposed to having enough power to get moving "powered up".

Putting in lots of hours static until you're on top of the Rage in a wide range of winds and conditions -- that's your goal now, eh?

I've flown a couple bullets (pre-rage from flexi) and judging from those you'll be in great shape with the rage.

Enjoy the new kite!!! But after this buy used, unless you're rich....

Great choice! Take that puppy out in 7-10 mph at first and don't look back. Go to lessons again when back to the LEI.

Later you can fly the Rage 3.5 in 20-25 if you want. You will know when.

Flexi is alwayz a good choice...................:duh::duh:

I do kitelandboarding and like Acampbell say

The answer to this can only be dictated by personal, preference, riding style and so forth.
I dont like pumps and i like to be able to re-launched the kite by myself then i used NEO's from HQ , very easy .

The Peter Lynn Charger looks Great too ! is diferent that the neo but a perfect crossover and No pumps and Not Bridges Great reviews

The best time for me kitelandboarding have been with the Ozone flow 5.0 (Small kite with no Depower)

i saw a lot people with Ozone Access into kitelandboard but you cant go to the water with this kite , the perfert crossover for my is the Peter Lynn and NEO's