I have been off line for a few days. Didn't mean to start a war. Last year was my first time at NABX and I had only been buggy riding for about 3 months and the dust devill I hit scared the crap out of me. So I was just thinking of a safety thing, I did not know the horns are already used for another purpose Racing. Being new to the event I am seeing with first timers eyes and looking to try to put in Ideas to help everyone out. I don't know all the ins and outs of the event, But I had a blast last year and will be back this year. I will definately be more aware this year and keep an eye out for hazards.
Keep up the good work on the event.

One other thing I don't think I have ever seen a Dust devil at Sunset beach, Ivanpa presented quite a few hazards the I had not delt with before.

It's not a war, just a spirited discussion, and one that is needed, so thank you.

As stated before, i didn't mean to single you out, so sorry about that.

Meanwhile, for all New folks, ask. That's why we are here(well sort of, that and the free beer!).

The combined amount of experience here is remarkable. Before i had the pleasure of helping with the event, it was not unusual for me to get 50 hours in during the week.

I also lived near El Mirage off and on for about 8 years, and buggied every chance i got.

There are many others on here with similar stories. We know the desert, we love the desert, we dream the desert.

That said, she is a harsh mistress.

Eyes open, mind clear!

Aoxomoxoa near.

Quote:

Originally posted by vwbrian I have been off line for a few days. Didn't mean to start a war. Last year was my first time at NABX and I had only been buggy riding for about 3 months and the dust devill I hit scared the crap out of me. So I was just thinking of a safety thing, I did not know the horns are already used for another purpose Racing. Being new to the event I am seeing with first timers eyes and looking to try to put in Ideas to help everyone out. I don't know all the ins and outs of the event, But I had a blast last year and will be back this year. I will definately be more aware this year and keep an eye out for hazards. Keep up the good work on the event. One other thing I don't think I have ever seen a Dust devil at Sunset beach, Ivanpa presented quite a few hazards the I had not delt with before.

Quote:

Originally posted by awindofchange Dean has always said that he welcomes racing at NABX, he just needs people like yourselves to step up to the plate and organize / run the racing as he cant do it all himself.

Ummmm..... Kent, we tried to do EXACTLY that. IN FACT we were told YES, repeat YES!!! approx 6 months before NABX 2009. Then in the middle of January we were told NO, Repeat NO!!! After agreeing to conditions established and negotiated by YOU, Jon and I were more than ready to run some FISLY races and to run the NABX races per the NABX rules. This WAS to be the trade off. We got to run our type of races in exchange for running the NABX races. Effectively bridging the gap and making inroads to patching up relations.

In the end, we were told NO with no explanation and little to no time to obtain our own permit and insurance. Why was that? To this day I really don't know why the answer changed to NO! We held up our end of the bargain only to be told to piss off at the last minute!!! This still angers me when I let it.

Bison - before this gets blown out of proportion, I insist on putting a stop to this now.

The answer was NEVER no. Dean and the NABX crew fully agreed to let us race under HIS permit and during HIS event, all we had to do was to use our own insurance. Up until that time I was told that NAPKRA had insurance so I didn't think this was ever an issue. After I spent nearly two months of negotiations with Dean I was finally informed that NAPKRA did NOT have insurance - nor did they have their non-profit status set up. I myself - AND ONLY MYSELF - ceased with the negotiations with Dean and the NABX crew and turned this back to Jon as I could go no further with it. All that needed to be done was for NAPKRA to obtain the necessary insurance that I was told they already had and we would have been racing at NABX no problem.

I take FULL BLAME AND RESPONSIBILITY for stopping the negotiations but please do NOT attack Dean and the NABX crew on this issue because they were fully supportive and agreeable to let us have our sanctioned races at NABX. Dean NEVER said no and in fact was very open and welcome to the idea and looked forward to helping us make it happen.

NABX's insurance did not cover the NAPKRA organization to hold races. But it did cover general racing for the NABX attendees in which we COULD HAVE STILL HELD NO PROBLEM. But the issue was that NAPKRA also wanted to hold its own private sanctioned races which were only open to the members of NAPKRA - these races would be in addition to the open races which NAPKRA would organize for any and all the NABX attendees that wanted to participate. Because NAPKRA is its own privatized organization, NAPKRA and its members could never be covered under NABX's event insurance - especially if the attendees of NABX aren't even allowed to participate. This situation is blatantly obvious and as you have been the one working with the insurance companies on NAPKRA's behalf, I would only assume that you would be fully aware of this. Just as NAPKRA's insurance that they now have could never cover NABX's event and attendees without an additional special policy to include them (which would increase the insurance costs dramatically), NABX"s event insurance could never cover NAPKRA without the same.

You can not expect the NABX crew to substantially increase the cost of their insurance to include our sanctioned body. We should have had our own insurance well in place before ever opening up the discussions with NABX. Even today, I am positive that Dean is more than happy to work with NAPKRA and allow us to hold our sanctioned races there - we just need to provide our own insurance and work out the scheduling details with the NABX crew so as to not interrupt or interfere with the general operations of NABX and its attendees. I have always said that the lake bed is plenty big enough to hold our races in a secluded area and also allow NABX attendees unrestricted access to the rest of the playa - Dean has always agreed in every discussion I have had with him regarding this.

But to make sure this is perfectly clear, in the middle of January 2009, I dropped the discussions back to Jon to finalize the insurance issues NOT DEAN OR NABX - as far as NABX knew it was a done deal. All we had to do was get insurance and we can race - no permits or anything else was necessary. Everything was a go and Dean was more than happy to allow us to hold our races. Dean even made several attempts after the fact to see if we were still planning on holding them and was very excited to make it happen.

So - in the middle of January, the answer turned into NO because of NAPKRA, not the NABX crew. That finger needs to be turned in the other direction to point to yourself and Jon, not NABX.

Sorry to be so blunt on this subject but I want to make sure blame for this is placed where it should be.

There is so much incorrect information that I will contact Bison and Kent to help them understand why and what happened. I will not participate in these inaccurate statements on this forum.
Best Regards
Jon Ellis

Holy crap- sorry again DID NOT mean to fan that flame, Dean. I owe you some of that free beer at NABX.:barf:

Quote:

Originally posted by jellis There is so much incorrect information that I will contact Bison and Kent to help them understand why and what happened. I will not participate in these inaccurate statements on this forum. Best Regards Jon Ellis

Then make them accurate and tell the readers your version of the facts. Let use decide with the facts. Otherwise you are just slinging poo and running. You wouldn't do that, would you Jon?

Will you stand by what you write, I guess that is the real question.

Edit: Sorry, I am referring to the fact that Jon, Eli, and Big John all removed their posts from a 5 page discussion of racing (since deleted by the admin of this site) titled "Challenge 2008"

Quote:

Originally posted by vwbrian One other thing I don't think I have ever seen a Dust devil at Sunset beach

Maybe not on the beach Brian, but there was one that rolled through buggy camp if you remember. :shocked2:

Quote:

Originally posted by geokite ...a 5 page discussion of racing (since deleted by the admin of this site) titled "Challenge 2008"

You know Steve you're just trying to restart old fights that never go anywhere. You never contribute TO the discussion, just put down people for not meeting YOUR standards.

*chirp.chirp.chirp*... So, who wants some popcorn?

Just to clarify my above statements and after talking with Dean and Jon:

Sanctioned racing during NABX 2009 WAS planned but was not able to happen because of insurance technicalities with NAPKRA at the time - again this had nothing to do with NABX - and - NABX had been nothing but 100% acceptable and cooperative in every way to make racing a reality. As everyone should now know, NAPKRA has since finalized their insurance deal and Jon has spent many countless hours making sure this was completed for the NAPKRA organization. Unfortunately it was not able to be completed by the time of the '09 NABX event.

When I posted that I turned the situation back to Jon, it was only because I did not have the ability to go further in the discussions as I had no control over the insurance issues. Jon and the rest of the people involved put forth their best effort to work out the details with NAPKRA's insurance, but it was just not possible to get them all done in the necessary time frame. When it became obvious that this was not going to be possible, there was no reason for me to carry on the discussions / planning / scheduling with the NABX organization. NABX did not say no to racing or to the NAPKRA, it was just not possible to put all the pieces together in the necessary time frame.

Talking with both Jon and Dean in the last few days, I have been assured that it is still possible that NAPKRA could hold their sanctioned racing events during the NABX event in the near future ... perhaps as early as NABX '11. So everyone who is anxiously waiting for sanctioned racing - it is still possible. Dean has also informed me that NABX will be hosting their own racing events during NABX '10 for anyone who wishes to join in - so if you only wanna race, there's no reason not to come!

I fully respect everyone involved with NAPKRA and NABX and appreciate the countless hours and hard work all of these people constantly stress over to make these events and organizations possible for us.

Now lets go ride and enjoy this wonderful sport - and leave all this political red tape BS behind in the dust.

Can't wait to see y'all at NABX '10

Quote:

Originally posted by awindofchange Just to clarify...

Much appreciated Kent, Thank You!