Nice sketches flexiblade! It all makes perfect sense now! I will try to mock some clamps up in CAD next week. That tool box buckle idea is genious. What if you simply welded some plates on the C clamp like on your rear axle, and had the two bolts on the underside. Basically rotate your downtube pic with the latch on top 180 degrees, and replace the latch with welded plates and 2 bolts. Another question. Is there any disadvantage to extending the clamps mounted to the frame and drilling holes through the clamps and downtube, then simply placing a bolt through the whole assembly? That's how its done on the standard Flexi buggy...

Second page glitch woo!

Yeah, you could do a C clamp on the down tube connector with 2 bolts instead of the 4 bolt setup - I went with the 4 bolt setup because that was pretty common for some bugs I had seen at the time. I just want to make something that comes apart easily (when I want it to) to cut down on the setup time.

The strait through bolts on the down tube (that go through the down tube) that you mentioned about the Flexi buggies I have only really seen on the Flexi's.

I'm going to try and make a prototype of the tool box clamp at the shop today - I'll see if I can get the picks up later today.

My motto when building a bug is - there's always a better way.

I made it into the shop today but was just feeling terrible - I was on the verge of tearing apart the covers and seat on my buggy frame to redo them but I just had a horrible headache, so I just went home. Lucky for that because it looks like the winds will be holding out for Ocean Beach tomorrow - I figure everybody will be watching the Super Bowl so I will bring the buggy and give it a shot. Good thing I didn't tear it apart - the last time I was able to get a good beach run in was back at the beginning of October. I did end up doing a little more detailed layout of the "Flip Latch" today.


I think it has potential.

Quote:

Originally posted by Jovver What if you simply welded some plates on the C clamp like on your rear axle, and had the two bolts on the underside.

Thats what I do on the Dominators and more recently on the Maloo

Quote:

Originally posted by popeyethewelder Quote: Originally posted by Jovver What if you simply welded some plates on the C clamp like on your rear axle, and had the two bolts on the underside. Thats what I do on the Dominators and more recently on the Maloo

Popeye, is that red seat bug the Maloo? That's pretty much what I had in mind when I started designing mine!

Quote:

Originally posted by Jovver Popeye, is that red seat bug the Maloo? That's pretty much what I had in mind when I started designing mine!

Yes Jovver see it in more detail Here

I used the two bolt through method I used. It is simple and easy. Just like me

Ok guys, I've taken some things into consideration and came up with revision 2 of my kite buggy. Updates on rev 2 include clamps for the rear axle and swan neck, holes in the swan neck downtube for more adjustment options, grips on the foot pegs, and extended plates on the forks for extra tire clearance. I would really like to see what a seat would look like on this thing, but mocking one of those up in SolidWorks is actually an extremely daunting task. I have considered angling the rear axle again because number 1, it looks awesome and unique, and 2, it will give me height adjustment on the rear. I may play around with that sometime in the future. As always, if you have some constructive criticism, I am anxious to hear it!

Pics removed.

2 things. I always liked Popeye's statement that "if it looks right, it probably is right." On his site, he talks about the importance of "rake" on the front forks. You don't seem to have any. Won't this make it unstable as you attain speed? Also, having done some tubing bending to make backrests, your radii might be a little tight on your side rails. It might be difficult to achieve those radii and it might also be stressful on the tubing. Just my thoughts for discussion.

BB, I tried to take rake into consideration, the fork pivot point is 20 degrees from the horizontal. Should I go more or less on that angle? When I play around with the angle, the only thing that seems to happen is the seat aims more towards the ground. Please clarify and elaborate on the rake concept. As for the tube bending, if it becomes too much of a hassle, I will change it.

Gosh, by looking at the model, at first glance it looks like there isn't any rake at all. A few degrees at most. Seems like Popeye settled on about 25-26 degrees as optimal. Look at your model and visualize what your front tire does when you turn. If it just spins on the same contact patch of the tire, you will have poor handling. Too much and it won't effectively turn so well. With the large amount of trail you have and seemingly little (to the eye) rake, the wheel would get sucked into the turn and you wouldn't be able to get it to go straight again easily.

EDIT: To clarify, rake is the angle of the axis that the front fork turns on, measured from vertical. This axis can be represented by the bolt holding the fork onto your swan neck.

Alright Bob, makes perfect sense. Here is a side view of the bug as it is now. As you can see, perspective makes all the difference. I may increase the rake to 25 degrees on the next revision.

Pic removed.

Not just the rake, but trail is also very important for a stable buggy, both in turns and at speed, and you have a shed load of negative trail there...well spotted Bob

Rake and Trail

where the side rails meet the swan, I would lower that another 50mm too

I would still bring the side rails slope much less to support the thighs, you will notice a big change on my next buggy, especially around this area.

Here's a quick way to think about it - popeye's numbers will do the rest.

I don't even recall what the actual angle was - I just kind of felt it out the hard way.

If the angle of the axis is straight up and down the buggy will turn wicked fast - going over 10mph with this kind of buggy is scary. If the angle is too low the tire will "flop" over when turning and be difficult to straighten out, can also cause the tire to dig into sand or a soft surface.

Quick correction to the first drawings design

Nice one Flexi...in other words Jovver your buggy will be like running a shopping trolley in reverse, the front wheel will want to keep turning 180 degrees

You should be able to lift your feet from the pegs and the buggy will keep going in a straight line with no input from you....just thik what will happen if you lifted your feet on your buggy.....ouch

So I'm curious as to a good rule of thumb for an acceptable rake and trail for a 16" barrow and a 21" BF it seems to me there must be some relation to the tires width.

I'm slowly getting my head around this just need another bump in the right direction

Thanks
Jim

Don't know whether I have it right or not but I have been playing around with a buggy in Inventor that I plan to knock up and have settled on a 65º head angle. This will be a longer cruising type buggy using wide barrow wheels at present. Realised that I hate doing pipe bends in cad.

But since I started the buggy plans I bought a land board and depower kite so the buggy might take a back seat for a while

Little pic of what I have come up with so far. I am going to change to the forks a little to make things easier to fabricate and I still can't decide on foot pegs yet.

Alu Buggy in the box (24x27x8.25 x 25lbs ) concept

don't see the seat, is it in the other box?