I never looked on the website, I called and talked to a real person.
I need to learn a few more languages, it's to hard to google translate on the phone.

If I spend $1000 on wheels ....They better say HARLEY DAVIDSON on em'..

Got my first good day with reasonably smooth winds on the landsegler wheels today. Most of my 40 miles were in the 30-35 mph range but had 4 runs that were over 40 and a good gust that took me to 52 mph.

I thought the Apexx was as secure and stable as it could get but I have to say that these wheels have made a noticeable improvement. There is something about the advantage of the COG and tow point being at or below the axle height. It's like the stability of running bigfoot lites but these wheels/tires weigh half what my smoothie barrows weighed. The buggy just tracks straighter somehow, and accelerates really well. I've had the kite drop down into the power zone and just point the buggy towards the kite when it pops open in the power and its like whoosh, gone and back to speed.

With the barrows, I would frequently notice balance and wobble issues probably due to uneven wear. This would show up over 45-50 mph. I don't even notice the rotation of the wheels with these Landseglers. These wheels also somehow seem to just allow the buggy to turn under power more, without so much scrubbing. As has been said before, like the buggy is on rails.

As calm as things were at 45 and 52 today, I look forward to my next runs over 60 and beyond. These wheels are made to go fast. And they will with the really narrow contact patch with the ground. they seem to barely touch with a bicycle thin track on the ground maybe a third of the track with barrows on.

A discussion came up about Landsegler wheels on another thread and I diverted that discussion to this thread to avoid a hijack of that thread.

Quote:

Originally posted by Cheddarhead How are these priced compared to the landsegler wheels?

Set of 3 Landegler wheels are about $850 with tires and tubes mounted and spoke covers mounted in place. They also can come with either 2 or 3 heavy duty carry bags for transport and an air filler hose. Wheels are ready to bolt on and run.

Landseglers are 16" rims with about a 22" overall diameter.

Quote:

Originally posted by Cheddarhead Thanks Bob, does one just order them off their site? Obviously there would have to be a money conversion in there somewhere. Is shipping a killer? Just wondering, Christmas isn't too far away ya know.

Shipping is shown as 60 Euros to US. They take paypal or direct bank transfer. I'd just email them to get things set up. Paypal will let you choose the currency you want to pay in. They will convert your US funds to Euros in the transfer.

so are the tires the skinny ones or the wide ones? And are all 3 wheels 20mm or just the rear? Do they come with mounting bolts, and all the spacers? Are they ready to mount? What about the front fork? How easy is it to get the tires replaced? I know Stephan went through 3 sets at NABX and the set left on the wheels at the end were completely bald on one side.

Quote:

Originally posted by bigkid so are the tires the skinny ones or the wide ones? And are all 3 wheels 20mm or just the rear? Do they come with mounting bolts, and all the spacers? Are they ready to mount? What about the front fork? How easy is it to get the tires replaced? I know Stephan went through 3 sets at NABX and the set left on the wheels at the end were completely bald on one side.

Phew, that's a lot of questions from someone that has already used these wheels but I'm happy to help and maybe someone else will benefit from the explanation, not knowing what is involved in running disc wheels.

Sizes available
You can order any of 3 different widths of tires. "nabx" and "wet" setups are the 80mm hubs with appropriate tires for their designation. Then there is the "beach" setup which is a 100mm wheel and a wider tire. "Beach" setup would be more appropriate for most beach locations to better handle some sand that isn't well packed. Popeye said he didn't intend to run any sort of bigfoot tire again after getting the beach Landseglers. For reference, Wexler and I run the "NABX" version which is the same as Stephan and Mano were running at NABX '12.

Bearings and axles
All Landsegler wheels come with 20mm bearings. I know bushings are available if this doesn't fit other size buggy axles. No mounting bolts are included, just like buying wheels for anything else. I had bolts for the Ivanpah that are the fine thread. and 2 different size sets of bolts for the Apexx with the more common course thread. Of course none of what I had were appropriate for the Landsegler wheels so to avoid any further bolt purchases, I bought a length of threaded rod and cut stub axles to length and use locknuts to secure the wheels on.

Spacers
The wheels come with internal spacers but the buyer would need to have front axle external spacers made to fit their fork. There is no standard fork width and even among production forks there is variation, so it's best to have them made for your particular fork.

Front Forks
They are ready to mount if you have a fork they fit in and spacers made. I just traded for a libre buggy that has a factory front fork already able to mount these wheels on, so you might need to make provisions to run these wheels or you might be ready. It depends on how your equipment is set up. Most forks that will run bigfoots can run this size disc wheel right away.

Tire Wear and Replacement
I haven't had to change tires yet and with my riding style can't even see that I've worn the tires at all with over 110 miles on them. I've had 2 sessions on them and have been over 50 mph each session so it's not like I've puttered around on them. I'm not sure how difficult they are to change. I've found similar sized motorcycle tires for under $40 each so these won't be much more expensive to replace than barrow smoothies, and look to not have to be changed as often. Discussing tire wear with Stephan as a baseline is like referring to Miguel Cabrera as average at batting this past year. Stephan is about 280 lbs and the most aggressive buggier I've ever seen. He's also the third fastest buggier in the world, so I'd expect him to wear through some tires quickly with 5-6 days to get his lakebed riding in for a year or longer. Normal buggiers aren't going to see that level of tire wear.

Camber
There has been some discussion about the benefits of adding camber to the rear axle wheels. The engineers at Landsegler have designed and manufactured these wheels to a level that they do not recommend adding camber, to allow for full performance and the least amount of drag without worrying about compromising the integrity of the wheels.


The Landsegler wheels might not be for everyone but as a discerning buggier, I'm really appreciating every aspect of running them on our buggies. If I didn't have them, I'd be saving my lunch money to get a set now that I've had a chance to run them on the lakebed.

I'm happy to answer any more questions you might have and there is a link to their website in my signature if you want to look into them further as well.

Thanks for all the detailed info, you answered alot of my questions as well. As Van once stated, bigfoot style wheels are really big slobs on grass and require soooo much power to keep any speed. I now know that they are really only appropriate for the beach and not much else. Should have just stuck with barrows from the start and I would have been much more satisfied. Live and learn I guess. Even though a set of Landsegler would be pricey, I'm almost convinced it would equal way less resistance. I suppose I could just get two more 4x8 rims and a few barrows and call it a day. That would be the economical approach, but the cool factor wouldn't quite be there. I always have to torture myself this way. We'll see how it plays out before next summer.

correct me if wrong but those are moped tires and rims with a bearing race modification. yes or no?

Quote:

Originally posted by bobsalinas correct me if wrong but those are moped tires and rims with a bearing race modification. yes or no?

yes, thats what mine were. from what I remember they were the first ones made with the new strait spoke hub.

Quote:

Originally posted by bigkid Quote: Originally posted by bobsalinas correct me if wrong but those are moped tires and rims with a bearing race modification. yes or no? yes, thats what mine were. from what I remember they were the first ones made with the new strait spoke hub.

landsegler wheels aren't modified from anything at all. They are engineered and made piece by piece in house. Moped wheels don't have to be designed to sustain high lateral loads. There is loads of information on their website about their design and mfg. process.

These are the tires that came on my nabx wheels and they are shown as motorcycle tires. Heidenau K55


LS hub drill by BMuse1, on Flickr


LS hub by BMuse1, on Flickr

Thanks Bobby! they made the right choice having you as a team rider! oh and I am saving my lunch money

I found the old tires off the wheels I had and they are not the same as yours Bobby. Good to see they progressed to the wider rims and the wider tire, I see from the pic the spokes fasten on each side of the rim and not in the middle as the ones I had.
Mine were the ones that Stephan had when he did his 70 something speed run at NABX the first year, wonder why they beefed up the rim?
I will have to take a look at yours to see what the difference is when I come to NABX if you are not out breaking speed records yourself. Besides I need to check on my Hero.:D

Thanks buddy! MDK you could run these on your bigfoot fork or I know a guy that can custom make you a fork that will look perfect on the Playa buggy. ;-) You already have the downtube and your rear axle is adjustable too. You are welcome to run the Hero buggy at nabx or whenever we can get together to see how you like them.

Edit: Jeff you are welcome to take either of my buggies for a run with the wheels if you like.

I looked at mine and the spokes go to the center of the rim. I think the spoke connection spreads out on the beach wheel though since it is quite a bit wider than the nabx wheel and the hub is wider too.

Having seen a guy the size of Stephan doing the things he was doing with those thinner NABX wheels on one of the most abrasive surfaces in the world, scrubbing high speed off hard, and the rest of the time putting enormous stress on the rims two wheeling more than convinced me the Lansegler wheels were much much better than anything else I had ever seen......by a million miles, not only extremely strong but unbelievably light too, an amazing combination.

There are others out there already trying to copy and play catch up selling their's for a few $$ cheaper, but they have not spent over two years testing not only on kite buggies, but land yachts......they have not done the scientific research in universities that Landsegler have done, they have left no stone un turned to offer us the perfect wheels.

I remember contacting and emailing Landsegler well over two years ago asking again and again if I could have some of those wheels, but although very politely every time telling me sorry, these wheels are still not ready, again and again, I kept getting the same answer.

Finaly I got my hands on the beach version, the perfect intermediate wheel between a full bigfoot and a full disc wheel...my buggy now weighs half of what it did, obviously they are not as good as full bigfoots in really soft sand, but with the buggy weighing half as much as with bigfoots, its not so much of an issue.

I love them, and they have not left my buggy since receiving them.

Thanks Bobby, Pops is making a fork I hope to have the Playa set up before NABX...anyone need a house plan drawn? Bobby thanks! but I'm sure that they are the right wheel for me, you know where I will be riding 98% of the time

Mike, you are one of the few that I know that skips all the intermediate steps in this sport and goes straight for the best there is. Can't wait to run with you again! I want some video and pics of you and Wexler running together this year. I'll try to keep up!

LOL! I think the keeping up will be my struggle buggeyed ran circles around me at Alvord I too am looking forward to riding with you guy's....well if I can keep up

Well to answer some questions that came up about replacement tires for the nabx version wheels, I've ordered 2 sets of replacement tires so we are prepared when our original tires need replacing. Neither shipping nor purchase price was nearly as expected.

At first, I tried to buy the same tire locally. They were available but for over $70 each. I looked into it further and found I can order them from Germany and pay shipping for about $36 a tire. I'm thrilled with that since the smoothie barrows cost about $30 each and didn't last a third as many miles. Not to mention the performance and ride advantages I've gained with this wheel/tire combination.

If replacement tires were a problem you didn't want to deal with, this should remove that stumbling block from consideration. Most riders could run a set of these tires for multiple years with typical riding at nabx. I've got over 500 miles on mine now and they are barely starting to show wear.

If anyone has questions, I'm happy to help out.

those wheels look awesome..!!!

Thanks Jantie. They ride even better than they look. I couldn't give them up.

Quote: Originally posted by revpaul

Quote: Originally posted by dragonfly carbon products   like this one ? that's not really a disc wheel by my definition. it's just a regular wheel with the round piece of CF tie-wrapped to the spokes....opposite of weight savings...perhaps better aerodynamics(?). a real disc wheel, by my definition, is a wheel with no spokes. the hub and rim is supported by the actual disc. I have some and they cost about $350 a piece if you can find them. the disc is an integral part of the wheel and not just a piece stuck to the wheel. Paul

It would be quite unfair to refer to Landsegler wheels as "regular wheels". They are a spoked wheel designed from hub to rim to be strong and light with the unique requirement that they be able to withstand tremendous side loads. I think they are called disc wheels because that is what they most closely compare to in appearance and width. The bicycle industry commonly refers to spoked wheels with external covers fitted as "disc wheels" so Landsegler's use of the term is not new.

Some racing rules require wheels with any open spaces to be covered. The spokes spinning through the air at higher speeds would create aerodynamic drag so there is a functional benefit to the covers being fitted as well. The cover's purpose is not to deceive or pretend anything. In fact, the wheels are quite a beautiful feat of engineering to see with the covers off. The covers are actually fastened with nylon nuts and bolts that fit within recesses in the covers. There are no tiewraps used. Nothing about landsegler wheels are second rate and I can't find where any shortcuts were taken.

These wheels weigh about 8.8 lbs with tires and covers installed, about the same as 4ply smoothies mounted to standard 2.5X8 plastic wheels. Overall diameter is about 22". I imagine solid disc wheels would have to be really heavy? I'm surprised they cost so much too. The Landsegler wheels are less than $300 each shipped to US from Germany.