Kami
Doesn't sheeting out equal low aoa? Doesn't sheeting out let your kite go to the edge? I don't get your point:puzzled:

Yeah you're right - brain fart on my part! Sorry about that

Low AoA is sheeting out and the kite going to the edge of the window ... what I was thinking of are the kites that just sit back in the window anyway, regardless of sheeting out and being at a low AoA - the Infinity is famous for it.

High AR kites 'fly' better so go further up the window ...? :dunno:

Kami,
:singing:You had me questioning myself.

And now I've got me questioning myself

Quote:

Originally posted by soliver- Quote: Originally posted by RedSky Don't forget drag. The Ozone Razors had a low AR of 3.2 if I remember correctly but a reduced number of open cells. This made it stable while giving it the ability to cut through the air more efficiently. In compassion the old Flexi Blade with an AR of 5.5 did less well upwind but great for static jumping. Given that, since octane has a limited number of open cells, is it likely that this, combined with a possibly favorable AoA, makes it a good upwind kite as the rep said? An AR of 3.5 just seems comparably low to others that claim a good upwind ability. I'm considering a 4m for the buggy quiver, and want a Viper S, but it may be that by the time I can afford one, they will be all gone, so I'm considering alternatives,... Still very stable, but good upwind ability... I'm not looking to go fast,... just to go upwind easier than with the beamer,... and I don't care to get into altering the beamer's AoA,... seems more trouble than its worth.

Not sure about the Octane. Not flown a foil for many years so can't really advise you. The best performing kite for upwind I ever flew was a Flysurfer Psycho 13m. I heard that shortening the lines down to 14m helped with upwind performance as there's less drag on shorter lines and the kite sat a little further forward in clean beach winds. Thinner Combat Speed lines would also help.

Quote:

Originally posted by Dagon If the octane is anything like the flow or the samurai it will be a very nice kite, but it is probably not what you are looking for in terms of good upwind performance, it will be very stable flying. However, as the aspect ratio gets higher, the ease of use will go down. High aspect kites are a little more temperamental. The PL reactor is what I would recommend, they seem to be a good "all around" buggy engine. Dieter makes a good point, pilot skill goes a long way when it comes to going upwind (or anything for that matter)

I hear Reactors are both really fast and a bit of a handful for less experienced pilots. While I am really quite confident in my kite control, I would rather take it easy and cruise rather than fight with the kite and go faster than I want,... easy and stable are 2 words that I like the sound of. Not to mention the price point on the PL Viper S is much better for me than the Reactor. I just fear that Vipers will be gone once I have money to buy.

Do you guys find the Reactor "tamer" than what I may have read?

As far as the 4m range, is the Reactor's 3.5m or 4.4m more equivalent to other kite's 4m range?

Kami,
Yea Ive got some of those kites that sit back in the window and they have low AR, I also have some kites that have high AR that will fly very near to straight upwind that usually ends with me reaching terminal speed and a very ugly crash. Sorry for the hijack but back to topic it really is high AR and low AoA for maximum upwind and speed.

The reactor II is not at all to be feared. It is high performance enough to not use as a trainer, but if you have some foil experience, and are ready for the buggy, it would be fine. I have a video of me flying the 3.5 if you haven't seen it. It moves around a bit but I was probably running about 35 mph. I've been over 50 with that same kite.

Wonder if low AR simply isn't stable enough to point that far upwind?
All the FSers I've had point upwind like freakin' mad things - easily 30˚ more than the guy I'm cutting off

Quote:

Originally posted by BeamerBob The reactor II is not at all to be feared. It is high performance enough to not use as a trainer, but if you have some foil experience, and are ready for the buggy, it would be fine. I have a video of me flying the 3.5 if you haven't seen it. It moves around a bit but I was probably running about 35 mph. I've been over 50 with that same kite.

So I'll keep Reactor in consideration for the 4m range, but I may have to go used over new, they are just so spendy. I still won't be able to buy for a few months. But I did see some good deals in the for sale forum,... meh!

I am thinking ahead too much I know, but....

What else can you guys recommend for the 4m range that has a good stability and an AR favorable to an upwind tack? Thoughts on the Toxic? Jojo? anything Gin? Flexi (Rage or Blurr)? ... Keep in mind I like the Viper S' price point. and remember the words easy and stable are words I like.

The Reactor II is a excellent kite, I think your sailing venue and wind conditions should come into play. If control, comfort, leading edge ability, reasonably priced. coastal or inland bugging, a good next choice would be Flexifoil Blurr with AAA kit. I think of it as a do everything buggy kite for fun and advancing skills. If your not limited by space and want to go faster in predictable winds then Reactor. Just sayin

I have a 4 and 5m toxic and they are very close to compare to the RII. Good power and stability for their size yet they cut upwind very well.

Quote:

Originally posted by KAZEDOKA ..., a good next choice would be Flexifoil Blurr with AAA kit. I think of it as a do everything buggy kite for fun and advancing skills.

What does the AAA kit do? Change AoA?

Just to throw a different slant into the question does anyone have a good feel for the AR of the NPWs which are legendary for their grunt [at the cost of speed] and stability and also have a fair amount of built in AoA adjustment by nature?