PKS, sorry if I am coming off very defensive. I am just looking out for all of the attendees of the event. Some folks drive up to 20 hours to get to WBB. Some jump on planes and have their gear shipped prior to the event. I have had people ship stuff to me and shipped stuff back to them after the event. For them, I will do what I can do to protect this event.

I do invite you seriously to come and be my guest if you have not been before. If you have been and already know what it's about, then you can understand what I am trying to protect.

I would do what I could to have a person sign up on site and explain why we have gone this route. I am sure we will run up on this, and each time it will be no problem doing what we can do to help others understand the importance.

If you would like to talk about it, just give me a call.

Ride on!

PKS .... wow .... I hope you will not get offended or dislike WBB because of all that talk .... That question was sure to come and glad that everything was explained above ....

Rich ..... I think you definitely need to think about on site NAPKA sign in option with temporary plates .... I am sure there will be whole bunch of people who did not register ...

That's the plan Konrad. I already have waivers in my WBB folder ready to go.

I know there are plate numbers that we need to put on our buggies...Is there any room for how they are displayed with all the different styles of buggies?

ex. There is a ton of room on the side for plate numbers on a buggy like Todd's or Weldngods. There isn't much room on a flexifoil on the side that you could make a nice place with numbers showing....

Can you run them on a plate on just the back and some on your helmet?

I was hoping I can get a tattoo of my number on my forehead so I can save money on tie wraps :P

Terry that is an idea that only you have!! I say go for it. But unless you do it yourself I bet it will cost more than tie wraps. And if you do it yourself remember that you have to write it backwards in the mirror!:ticking::shocked2:

He He, LOL ...Ya know , I actually won awards for some tattoo designs back in the day...thats why you see "NO" tatoos on me, I heard every story why they want one....then return wanting it covered or removed. I was digging the Peter Lynn tats I saw in Wildwood but I rather like my scars I earned the hard way.:singing:

I have enjoyed the bash since before it was really a bash, but if im now going to have to join some club, that dosent even support my main discipline(kiteboarding), then i guess ill no longer be attending. Rather then piss away 40 bucks to ride a mountain board 2 times a year, ill pass and maybe send the 40 to Joes club. Im sure this is for the better as the bash is rather big now. But makes me totally loose interest.
Ill be sure not to miss the spring bash though, i cant miss the chance to meet my buddy Bladerunner in person. Cant wait.

Talk to Rich about Kite boarding. I think as the group grows with more people and more support and More info on Kite boarding is spread the insurance will grow to include it. Years ago I felt the same way about my insurance co. because they wouldn't cover my motorcycles. But times change.

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Originally posted by Crash I was digging the Peter Lynn tats I saw in Wildwood but I rather like my scars I earned the hard way.:singing:

I'm sorry but am I missing your point on this one?

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Originally posted by power I have enjoyed the bash since before it was really a bash, but if im now going to have to join some club, that dosent even support my main discipline(kiteboarding), then i guess ill no longer be attending. Rather then piss away 40 bucks to ride a mountain board 2 times a year, ill pass and maybe send the 40 to Joes club. Im sure this is for the better as the bash is rather big now. But makes me totally loose interest. Ill be sure not to miss the spring bash though, i cant miss the chance to meet my buddy Bladerunner in person. Cant wait.

WoW this one really sent me for a loop especially after all that rallied in your support after the accident. I just don't get it. Here is the deal plain and simple if you can't support $40 to secure a riding place such as this and to continue the sport of kiting I will give you the money. Do you see what this is coming to and how people no matter what want to see you NOT have fun? Think about it.

Power sorry you feel this way! I remember when you came to the one bash. The WBB has been happening for 20 plus years and yes it has now grown. I met you once or twice, only knew you as a landboarder at the time. Was not aware that you now are a Kiteboarder as well.

NAPKA has changed quite a bit, used to only cover buggy's, now covers, buggy's, land boarders, dirtsurfers, and Coyote type skates. Who knows what is in store next for NAPKA, but without input and numbers, not much will change. The times are changing, so WBB had to change as well. Again, not something we wanted to do, just something we had to do. To most it is worth the little bit of money to spend to save a riding spot and event like Wildwood!

Good luck and hope you come again!

To add to the pot and help stir things up a bit, one of the benefits of the group is that the next event in your area or here on the west coast, or where ever, is free. You pay once a year for your membership and you are entitled to participate in all the NAPKA events. If you want a 2nd or 59th NAPKA event in your area, its still free.

What we are doing in Washington State and changing the law for accessing the beaches, is telling the world that we are a group of Wind Powered Enthusiasts that,
have insurance to cover property owners of the liability.
are aware of the rules of the beach and or area where we are at.
We have a self policing attitude to make things safe for the public and ourselves.
We operate with safety equipment such as helmets and what ever is needed by the entity that is allowing us to use their property.
We display a number that shows everyone that we are part of a group.

We have teaching/schools that will help newbies get into the sport.
Along with a few other things, the group is all about creating a place to learn, enjoy, and pass on information and learning the sport from the inside, out.
If you are in a buggy, on a board, riding a dirt surfer or Coyote's,or ?, you have the ability to have your own event. Just you or a bunch of members can create an event and have races or practice or just run the beach or field. I have created events with a sod farm owner and now he is buggying with us when we go play at his place. We don't need the event any more because he knows what kind of group we are, and what we stand for. A win/win situation.
We were part of WISKF this year, and it was only because of NAPKA that we were able to pull it off, we gave buggy rides to those who signed a waiver, and a few of them joined NAPKA. We gave some frustrated buggyers renewed hope of using that buggy that has been sitting in the garage for 20 years. "We can now get back into the sport", "this is great".

Just my 2 cents worth.

Its not about the money. Its the point that i have to pay for something that i dont need. I dont intent to goto other napka events. I goto kiteboarding and snowkiting events all the time and have never paid for any of them.
Id rather give my money to the wildwood catholic high kite club that can use the money to get some kids involved, then pay for something i no need for. Personally i think making someone join a club to attend an event is lame.

This is why we took a vote, and as I said before it was unanimous. That shows the people in attendance understand the importance of moving forward to protect the event. I joined NAPKA for the sole purpose of helping our sport. I did not need it when I signed up. If NAPKA doesnt work for you or you dont think its worth paying to attend, then so be it.

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Originally posted by power Its not about the money. Its the point that i have to pay for something that i dont need. I dont intent to goto other napka events. I goto kiteboarding and snowkiting events all the time and have never paid for any of them. Id rather give my money to the wildwood catholic high kite club that can use the money to get some kids involved, then pay for something i no need for. Personally i think making someone join a club to attend an event is lame.

I think you might be missing the overall point concerning this event. Would you rather pay a registration fee for the event? Because that was the other alternative and the fee could range from $20-$40 PER event, so now you'd be paying at least $40 anyway if you come twice a year or possibly more per event. The event at Wildwood is not becoming fee based because somebody wants to make money off of registration or increase club memberships. It's because the event has grown and the town has noticed and with that notice they say we are required to have permits and insurance...which cost money. So the bottom line in that respect is...no insurance/permits, NO EVENT. As Rich said, a VOTE was taken. The following options were presented..

Option A - charge a registration fee that could vary based on attendance and is per event. One of the downsides to this is attendance. If we don't get enough people to come that can cover the cost of insurance, we can't secure any and there is no event. We were fortunate this time that for the fall bash someone stepped in and covered the insurance for us, that may not always be the case. Another downside is finding someone to provide that insurance. What if the insurance companies decides they don't want to deal with us or raise the rates or something else. Somebody is going to have to secure and pay the insurance and if we can't....NO EVENT.

Option B - make it it a NAPKA event. With this option, you pay (at the moment) $40 a year and you are now at least covered for the two Wildwood events should you choose to come. Right now it's $40 a year, but if more people join, the cost of membership could decrease. This means the cost of the event would decrease. The insurance aspect is already built in and behind us. No back and forth calls trying to find insurance and pulling out hair due to frustration. An added benefit, is YOU having an entity to stand behind no matter where you go when you want to kite under the NAPKA umbrella. Want to buggy, landboard, skate, etc... somewhere else (either by yourself or with a group of friends) call it a NAPKA event and you have the NAPKA team standing behind you AND you are insured should something happen to you or a bystander. As opposed to option A, where once you leave Wildwood...you're on your own. There are many advantages to paying for a NAPKA membership as opposed to a per event registration fee.

Making someone join a club to go to an event is lame, but it's not about making someone join a club. The bottom line is that the event is going to cost money due to being required permits/insurance by the townships in Wildwood. The majority, as indicated by vote of the participants at the event, felt NAPKA was the best option because at least in my opinion you have the opportunity to get a whole lot more out of it year round as opposed to a one time registration fee. The decision wasn't going to make everyone happy, you can never please everyone, but try and look at it perspectively from what I and everyone else has said on the matter. Because, again, this event is going to cost money now. Participants can either pay a per event registration or make it NAPKA and get added benefits on top of the Wildwood event if they choose. The PARTICIPANTS voted in favor of NAPKA. I know i've repeated those facts several times, but that's the perspective I take away and feel that's the overall point of the decision. I understand your position power, but I hope you understand that there is a bigger picture here. This post isn't just for you either power, it's for anyone else that may be having mixed feelings about the direction of the Wildwood event.

Pretty well stated. But I'll add..

Most large gatherings, that are an advertised 'official' event using a public resource that are free to attend- seem to be less common...especially an action sport that involves some risk. And They aren't free for the same reasons stated here(insurance). Factor in it's right smack in a populated town(alright.. ghost town where the shalimar is in our event seasons..but the rest of populace is not so far away!)

Yes, obviously some free sporting events still do exist and continue to exist. Thank gosh. And I wish this still were one of those.

One of the greatest things about a sport like this is that it is FREE to go and use public land and enjoy the sport. I would HATE to pay to use everytime- or even a yearly fee- to use land to do whatever I wanted that harmed no one or the land itself.


No one wants to pay. Period. And no one especially wants to pay for any event where- if it wasn't an event, and it was just you- solo- or a few friends using the same public area on another day-it would be free to do.
But when the town says you can't have an event without insurance, this is what you have to do. No longer free event.



One imprtant side benefit to this is it may also have an enforcing ability to maintain access .This for the event itself, and outside the event on different times of the year when it is allowed(free!) . That of course assumes it is allowed with/without restrictions outside of just those events.

I believe you can powerkite outside of the beach season at Wildwood without being asked to leave by police..but please correct me if I am wrong on this as I am not 100% sure. ...hmmm...i do remember that sign on beach(is it still there?) that includes 'No flying kite'...?:puzzled:

If I don't want to attend an event that will cost $...I just have a 'meet up' w/ a few friends to do the same thing -same place, another day.

But in this case I would be missing out on a great social event- one with some fun supportive folks.

If the membership/insurance/ cost for an event ever went a lot higher...I might also bow out...as would many. The cost is reasonable for now.

One thing that is not talked about and sooner or later will become a blown out of proportion major catastrophe, is an "Accident involving a bystander."
Dealing with Parks and the government of Washington State about the beach issue. The "Accident, anyone hurt", damage issue was the last question asked at our last big meeting, but was the main thought through the meeting. You had better believe this is not just a thought, it is more than likely the main reason for the required insurance.
With that in mind, the more people that attend, the more the chance of something happening. We don't talk about it or even want to, but we have all seen a near miss or "that was to close" situation. Whether it was one of us or somebody else, makes no difference in the eyes of the law. Murphy and his lousy law is nothing to ignore. It's not a mater of "if", it's a matter of "when". I know for a fact:embarrased:stuff happens, I just hope it is not something that will shut down the sport where you are or where you could be. If I don't agree with you or you don't agree with me, doesn't matter in today's "life" or lack of. We are finding that change is not always welcomed or even good, The key is to grab hold of the situation before it becomes a problem, or are we a bunch of people who don't worry about the barn door being open until after the animals have escaped. It's much harder, if not impossible to get back a beach once it is gone. We lost the use of the Beaches in Washington State 20 years ago, Been working on getting them back for 19 1/2 years. One person has taken on the job of getting our beach right restored and it has become almost a full time job for him. There are a few of us that have been helping along the way with thousands of tasks such as attending meetings, sending out emails, visiting beach communities, talking to shop owners, doing what ever is needed to make this change.
Are you willing to wait 20 years to buggy at WW if you loose the ability to use the beach? Or better yet, ARE YOU WILLING TO HELP KEEP THE BEACH ACCESSIBLE?

Can't believe this is even an issue...It's like explaining an insurance issue to a 10 year old...

The town has a sign posted that you can't fly kites on the beach...The town lets this rule slide, if we provide insurance...then they give us a permit so we can hold an event...NO PERMIT and you can't have an event on the beach flying kites....plain and simple!!...so....either we come up with our own insurance that we have to pay for either way or we join NAPKA for $40.00 and they provide it for us...

Here's some other points....
We don't need 1, 3, 10+ kites in our quiver but......we all have that many even if we DON'T NEED OR USE THEM.....
other then a pair of kite killers or a Kite stake, I can't think of anything I can purchase that costs less then $40.00
Case of beer?
pack of smokes?
gas to fill the car/truck?
New line set?
room at hotel?

If you never have come to WW or you don't even ride a buggy then why post something on here #@%$#!ing about the money?? pointless!

If you don't want to pay the 40.00 bucks, so we can have an event on the beach that the "TOWN IS REQUIRING" then stay home...sorry for having to be so negative, but it's really bothering that $40.00 dollars is such a big issue when we all have thousands of dollars of equipment so we can go play.

My apologies again for being negative and #@%$#!ing but.... IF 40.00 dollars is too much and such a big deal.....GO FLY A KITE!

Here in nassau county..... we have a blokart club with provided insurance to secure permit each year. It cost us $650.000 each year and we share cost between members. After joining NAPKA, I plan on approaching the county to have a buggy event on one of the beaches we already use off season.????.... they are hard up for cash and will take any revenue they can get their hands on. Funny how I fly a 1/2 scale remote control plane for a $20 yearly fee...... when out of controll, where ever it comes down can cause fire, serious damage or death....but a kite or landsailer on a empty parking lot or beach cost hundreds..
Hey Josh! I've raced shifter karts, motocross, snow mobiles growing up. I have a few extreme hobbies that beat me up sometimes and I have plenty of scars to show for it. I really liked the Peter Lynn logo, and seeing a tattoo along with being on clothing and trucks was pretty cool. I have no point just that I used to use to do tattoos back in the days and don't have any.

Terry, joing NAPKA should be a real positive thing for you then! Again, all set up and ready to go. Use it to your advantage to have a Race or just a fun event like NAPKA!To use it, you just let the Safety Officer, aka Bladerunner know that you want to have an event, he gets the paper work for you, bam, off you go! The WBB started small, look at it now! Thriving and jiving! Just remember folks, your event doesn't have to be a race, just for fun like WBB, you can also use NAPKA for just your self! Yes an event can be classified as ONE person! So many benefits!

I am glad to see this subject getting discussed, and I am more impressed that folks are supporting the change! Yeah it's $40, but it is for peace of mind. Can you imagine if just one By stander gets hurt at WBB without having insurance! Poof, gone, done, kaputz! That's it folks, shows over. We do our best to explain to bystanders what is going on and where a safe viewing zone is, but you always have someone that test the waters!

I think overall, and based on the vote, most will be quite happy joing NAPKA and becoming part of the solution, not part of the problem! I will tell you now, that I will always do what I can do to protect this event and one hell of a sweet riding spot! I always look at the big picture!

Continue to support things moving forward! Like I stated before, sign up soon so that there is no back log on membership cards!!!
I will be posting a video in the next week on how easy and cheap it is to put on Number Plates! My grand total will be about $15!

Let me start by saying that I have had a bias opinion in favor of permitting/insuring the bash for quite some time. I have felt this way for a two major reasons: To minimize the liability that the organizers were unfairly being exposed to. Also to keep us from being thrown off the beach for breaking the local no kiting flying on the beach ordinances. I am also a long time NAPKA member.

The bash went under the radar for quite some time, but that ended last spring when the authorities told us to not come back without a permit and event insurance. This left the bash in search for affordable insurance, and the one that fit best seemed to be what NAPKA offers. This was discussed and voted on at the bash and was overwhelmingly accepted.

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originally by power I have enjoyed the bash since before it was really a bash, but if im now going to have to join some club, that dosent even support my main discipline(kiteboarding), then i guess ill no longer be attending. Rather then piss away 40 bucks to ride a mountain board 2 times a year, ill pass and maybe send the 40 to Joes club. Im sure this is for the better as the bash is rather big now. But makes me totally loose interest. Ill be sure not to miss the spring bash though, i cant miss the chance to meet my buddy Bladerunner in person. Cant wait. Its not about the money. Its the point that i have to pay for something that i dont need. I dont intent to goto other napka events. I goto kiteboarding and snowkiting events all the time and have never paid for any of them. Id rather give my money to the wildwood catholic high kite club that can use the money to get some kids involved, then pay for something i no need for. Personally i think making someone join a club to attend an event is lame.

Power, I am confused by your logic when you say that it is not about the money (to me meaning that money is not important) then the next sentence is about paying for something (about money?). I am also confused when you state that you have to pay for something that you don't need, yet you express interest in coming to the spring bash where being a NAPKA member is a requirement and obviously something you need. Could you please explain it to me?

One more point, I see that you feel that requiring club membership to attend an event as being lame. I think that you should look at it as an affordable method of providing event insurance that is shared among the bash attendants and reduces the organizers work load.

Is buggying not allowed outside of the events at Wildwood officially... just not enforced?

Would I be allowed to buggy myself if I showed up this week(i'm not-just an exanple!)?

I'm guessing it's not allowed, but not enforced.

:puzzled::roll::tumble:

Brian, I believe that it is just not enforced. Joecat is a better authority on thay. I do know that land sailing has been a long time favorite if many people in Wildwood. Many people I have talked to there have some sort of history of land sailing. Even Jack Morey used to own a kite buggy and land sailer. I will check with Joe and report back on that.

Ok say i come to the bash, there is a nice south east blowin, i decide to throw on my kiteboard and hit the waves. Im ripping and a line snaps my kite comes crashing down an a bystander. Am i covered under napka? I think somewhere i saw pics of zeb on skis, would he be covered? Someone said about r/c planes, well i flew helis but was covered under their insurance so no prob. Why would u not cover all kite sports? In my eyes not covered = not paying.
I dont think anyone will miss me at the bash, and im only coming in spring cuz ive been waiting for the chance to meet Bladerunner. Other then that i run into almost everyone at other times kiteboarding or snowkiting. So eh no biggie.

Under NAPKA you would not be covered. But there is the same thing available for kitesurfers, kiteskiers, and blokarters as there is for buggys. Zeb is actually an IKO certified instructir and is insured. Blokart pilots have there own insurance for events and Fran is handling his end in that. Kober is also a kitesurfer and is also insured to kitesurf whereever he goes as well.

Maybe you should look into that. Bladerunner is surely coming and is also in full support of the event going NAPKA. If you are coming in the spring see you then.

Sorry you feel it is not worth your time or money, but for us it is.

So if i ride water i need one insurance, land i need another, and if i jump on a blocart i need another??? Thanks but ill just pass.

You can always invest some of you time and try negotiated with insurance that will cover all those activities .... That would be awesome ....
I purchase kiteboarder insurance just because of that ... I have seen people crashing kites to bystanders on local beach and I decided that is worth $$$ to be covered in case of accident ..... I think NAPKA was perfect solution for WBB that will keep event going and make it safer for attendees, organizers and beach goers. We are lucky that all that time it was accident free and that town did not take closer look at it before .....
Paying $40 for WBB weekend or two its really small sum to have all that fun.... and as we agree before ... kiting is only small portion of that time .... People that come to event make all the difference ... People with passion... knowledge that they want to share with others .... with thousands of $ in gear that they willing to share if needed .... bringing food, beer and raffle prizes for Sat night BBQ that sometimes cost 100s of $ .... and all that is because all of them love our sport and WBB event. Same people are willing to help to keep our sport on theirs local beaches , keep new kiters safe and support organizations like NAPKA that some day may have big role on keeping you local spot accessible to you .
Now lets imagine WBB without people willing to share and support ..........
I can think of many more ways spending $40 on less fun ... Going to my local beach on summer 2 day in row... Parking my car in NY ... Go-cart ride or two ... and many many more that I don't need and still do it .....

Hey Power . Good to see you back online !

I believe we are allowed guests ? If that is the case I hope you will be mine. If that doesn't include full riding I'll spring for your entry and you can donate to the kite kids . It will be worth it for you to show me how you reverse launch your C kite :wink2:

I think that if you choose to ride on water then you will have the same issues you have any day you kitesurf at Wildwood . The insurance isn't exactly for US, it is for the land owners and event organizers. Something Wildwood unfortunately demands.

I know that the folks on water in Vancouver / Squamish have a similar set up. SWS require a yearly membership or $10 a day so ... even on water you can have to pay to play here.

If the snowkite events are similar to the Montana Snowkite rodeo I am pretty sure the event insurance was covered by " SPONSORS " ( in Keith Kalois day )? That had to be what all the Banners and stuff by companies paid for ? It was a far more commercial event. It's possible to put on a snowkite event without insurance because it isn't on land that the owners are demanding it. Still the person putting it on is taking a big risk not covering his butt IMHO ?

I had not considered that I will be outside of NAPKA umbrella on sand skis. Good point ! When I do that I suppose I can drop my numbers and do it as an independant rider on the beach. Just like a rider on the water.

Like Rich points out NAPKA is a everyman's club . They have listened to what I need the club to be to satisfy my needs and they have met them every time ! NAPKA now includes ATB and Blades . I won't request they add sand ski but expect the insurance would accept it.


I earlier said I pay $75 every year for NABX and it's a 1 shot deal. Now I hear it's $100 ? WBB is a FREE event to me so I'm ahead $100 by choosing to go East ! :bouncy: Cups half FULL !
:bigok:

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