Quote:

Originally posted by Scudley Quote: Originally posted by -mj- Any kite that comes with kite killers (should have) 2 handles WITHOUT a harnessloop. Looking at kites of the bigger manufacturers you´ll see just that, reason for this is simple, learn to fly your kite first (in light to moderate winds) on handles with the KK´s to ensure (some!) safety. the second you change handles or place a line between ´em and "hook in" the KK´s lose their functionality. (sure there are ways around that but these are not as intended by manufacturers (at least not the ones I know of and talk to)) When looking at kites aimed towards intermediate and pro riders you´ll see that in most common cases these kites don´t come with KK´s and are equiped with handles with a harnessloop, -mj- It appears much of the confusion that RonH says education is required to remove is the caused by the manufacturers and distributors. As a distributor of Ozone kites I assume that you know of and talk to them. Their land kite manual, available online at flyozone.com, states that kite killers are mandatory. Ozone Pro Handles are sold with a strop that would require dismantling the leaders to remove. Kite killers are included with them and connot be purchased without killers. There appears to be a discrepancy between Ozone and your company as you say killers should never be used with a strop. I am sure you can see why I and many others are confused as to correct use of kite killers. I am looking forward to your assistance in clearing up our confusion. S I might be wrong about the uselessness of kite killers but at least I am consistent.

Actually, you can remove the strop off of any Ozone handle without dismantling the handle/leaders. You need to open the loop on the strop on one handle and pass the entire handle through the loop of the strop, its a tight fit but can be done pretty easily. Once one side is off you can simply undo the larks head on the other side and the strop is off. I have done this many times myself for newbies that aren't planning on using a harness. The strop just gets in the way. I have used kite killers with a strop and as long as you release both handles and the killers are hooked up properly, it works fine but if you only release one handle it can be a serious issue.

As far as the mandatory manual...Ozone headquarters is based out of France where they require by law that kite killers are included with all beginner to intermediate kites sold with handles. They also require control bars / lines on all surf and snow kites to be able to hold a certain amount of weight to be acceptable for use. I believe this is the reason that their manual states they are mandatory. Ozone may be best at answering this and what I have heard above is just that...what I have heard over time. Unfortunately I can not back up these statements at this time....I will try to contact Ozone on this in the next bit to see if I can clarify what I have heard.

Either way, they are not mandatory in the U.S. and as far as I know, not in the UK either.

Kent,
If it is required by law that beginner and intermediate kites come with killers, it is odd that the pro handles come with killers while the standard handles do not. Source for this information is your web site.
To add to my confusion, commercial regulations such as product safety are the responsibility of the European Union not individual nations, see "EU Certification" or "CE Certification". It was done to stop countries from putting up 'artificial' consumer safety regulations that act as trade restrictions. So, if they were mandatory in France, it's mandatory across the EU.
S
now I am even more confused.

Since when do laws make sense?

Quote:

Originally posted by Kamikuza Since when do laws make sense?

Far more rational thought and discussion went into the writing of these laws than went into the design of kite killers.
S

Like Kent, I've been staying away from this one, but since cooler heads have chimed in within the past few days, I'll risk tripping over a troll...

Kite killers are among the biggest pain in the ass of all kite accessories I can think of and cause me frequent headaches. But I wear them all the time.

I feel confident enough flying that I don't think I'll put myself in a position to have to drop the handles, but it could happen in the rare event that I flip the bug. If that happens in an breeze blowing on-shore, I lose the kite to the dunes where there are nettles and nasty brush. If the wind blows the other way, I lose the kite to the ocean.

I kite in a shared-use environment and there are frequently people down wind of me. I try to promote the sport, so when a concerned member of the public asks me about safety, I like to point out the KS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-s.

I frequently hand my kites to strangers who have never seen one before- even my Reactor 8.3 (if the winds are perfectly gentle for the circumstance). I like being able to tell them to just let go if they feel the need.

And I fly KS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-s with a strop, as I 'm usually un-hooked on a downwind leg. For upwind work, I am working on a new QR for the strop similar to what Ken posted here sometime back.

If I flew on private land with no hazards on the perimeter, I probably would not wear them.

Quote:

Originally posted by acampbell Like Kent, I've been staying away from this one, but since cooler heads have chimed in within the past few days, I'll risk tripping over a troll...

Angus, at the risk of being called a troll, I am going to reply to your points one at time as I respect your opinion but feel that like many of the supporters of kite killers you have been misinformed and continue to spread this disinformation to the detriment of a sport we both love.

Quote:

Originally posted by acampbell I feel confident enough flying that I don't think I'll put myself in a position to have to drop the handles, but it could happen in the rare event that I flip the bug. If that happens in an breeze blowing on-shore, I lose the kite to the dunes where there are nettles and nasty brush. If the wind blows the other way, I lose the kite to the ocean.

This just restates that kite killers prevent damage to or loss of your kite from if you release it. No one is disputing this. What we are discussing is whether kite killers make you or bystanders safer.

Quote:

Originally posted by acampbell I kite in a shared-use environment and there are frequently people down wind of me. I try to promote the sport, so when a concerned member of the public asks me about safety, I like to point out the KS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-s.

Does this increase their safety or just make them feel better?

Quote:

Originally posted by acampbell I frequently hand my kites to strangers who have never seen one before- even my Reactor 8.3 (if the winds are perfectly gentle for the circumstance). I like being able to tell them to just let go if they feel the need.

I also frequently hand my kites to strangers, even my ten meter Reflex, but only if the conditions are such that if they let it go it will not result in: the loss of or damage to my kite; a hazard to anyone downwind. I also tell them to let go if they feel the need, but I do not endanger them by strapping them to my kite.

Quote:

Originally posted by acampbell And I fly KS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-s with a strop, as I 'm usually un-hooked on a downwind leg. For upwind work, I am working on a new QR for the strop similar to what Ken posted here sometime back.

-mj-, as the representative of PL, tells us that flying with killers and a strop is definitely not safe. I hope that you will take the advice of your supplier and stop this practice. In the event of an accident which occurred while you were doing so could result in your being liable for damages as you have knowingly engaged in practice the manufacturer has warned you against.
I hope that you will take this not as a troll or flame but as a genuine effort on my part to end what I believe is a practice that may endanger people.
Regards
S

Quote:

-mj-, as the representative of PL, tells us that flying with killers and a strop is definitely not safe.

Ummmm... no. He questioned the functionality of KS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-s when hooked in, and I would agree. Hence my mention of a QR, following Ken's great idea. Additionally, in the rare event I take a rough and tumble out of the bug, there is a good chance of being unhooked.

...and as stated I'm usually un-hooked on the downwind leg when there is little tension on the lines and the added maneuverability from being un-hooked is welcome

I will let Marijn correct me if I misunderstood him

Scudly.

On the second and third quotes of your post, you question the safety of the kite killers and "Does this increase their safety or just make them feel better? "

On Angus's behalf, I will answer and please correct me if I am wrong Angus....I don't mean to speak for you.

Again I must say (IMO) YES to both quotes!, kite killers are not only safer for the pilot but also safer for the non-kiting people around you while you fly. As I have stated in my earlier post, using a kite beyond your own ability or beyond the recommended wind range of the kite will greatly reduce the safety of any safety device!

Most every surf kite comes with two complete and totally independent safety systems - both of which can be deployed at any time, one safety system to kill the kite, the other to totally release the kite from your person. Still, as most everyone saw on all of the forums, a kite flyer down in Florida flying on the beach before the coming hurricane got lofted off the beach, slammed down on the ground, and then got lofted once again, launched over a road and slammed into the side of a building. He was very lucky to survive. So going along the same lines as you seem to be implementing - the safety systems did not work and did not make the kite or the people around the pilot any safer....and could be constructed in such a way as to say the whole chicken loop safety setup was actually more dangerous and was the main cause for him getting hurt in the first place. Had he not been leashed or hooked in, the kite would have just ripped out of his hands and all would have been fine (except the other moron kiter that was down wind from him - he may have gotten blasted by the kite as it blew away --- ever been hit by an LEI?).

So does this mean that we should boycott all types of safety systems on all kites, including surfing kites? Should we boycott all harness's? By referring to any form of safety system on a kite, are we implementing that no matter what you do you will be perfectly safe? It goes back to the old saying - "If you make something idiot proof, someone will come along and design a better idiot!"

Obviously this is a far fetched extreme but I will still stand by my previous post in that "IF" a kite is flown in its recommended wind range, and "IF" the kite killers are properly installed, and "IF" the killers are deployed in the proper way - it does make it safer for both the pilot as well as any other innocent bystanders in the area. Kite killers work, I have used them myself, I have seen others use them, I have personally witnessed numerous times where a new buggier was saved from being ripped from the buggy by kite killers. I have never once seen someone injured because of the use of the kite killers. Again if you are flying beyond your abilities or in winds that are just to strong - your gonna get hurt regardless of any safety system - kite killers or otherwise.

If you take a kite out in winds that are way stronger than the recommended wind range or fly beyond your own ability, the kite killers are not going to save you and you take a huge risk in getting hurt. Kite killers DO NOT replace common sense and are not a "save all" gimmick.

Anyways, thats my opinion on it. I am not in any way trying to convince (or force) anyone that you should or should not use kite killers. That is something that is probably best decided by you as the pilot and master of your own domain or flying field. Again these are ONLY my personal opinions and nothing more!!! I am only sharing them as such. I don't mean to try and change the way others fly or the way they feel about this subject - but more to give different experiences and insights on other peoples perspectives so they will be able to make the best decision possible.

Hope that helps.

Thanks Kent for getting my back; I just did not have the energy.

Quote:

Originally posted by Scudley Quote: Originally posted by Kamikuza Since when do laws make sense? Far more rational thought and discussion went into the writing of these laws than went into the design of kite killers. S

What, like the helmet laws in the US, Prohibition, legalized tobacco addiction and that Act that protects random animals and plots of land cos the tree huggers get all upset? Go on, pull the other one

:wow: I have been flying fixed bridle parafoils for 4+ yrs.now. Nobody here where I live to teach me jack ,so I have learned alot the hard way. I have always used KKs, and still do. And I bet I use them about once every time I am out flyin' in decent wind, or I wasn't havin fun. I never thought of them as a safety device( except so you don't get dragged after a superman) but more like a kite saving device. And they work every time!

I'm not sure if I even qualify to speak my opinion in this topic, i've only flown my kite about 5 times!

My kS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-s are quite comfy and don't seem to get in the way, saying that I have only flown without buggys or boards so i'm not sure if they contribute anything.

Assuming they always work as expected, the only reason you would not wear them is because your scared your kite could get tangled up in something else when your are cruising along?

On my first flying experience a gust of wind really tugged the handles and I was a little scared of the power, so I let go... the kite fell to the ground. If I didn't wear KS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-s would it of just flown off across the field and got stuck somewhere?


I feel a little inexperienced to comment really but was just saying my thoughts.

I ask myself, why would you 'not' wear them?

Quote:

Originally posted by Kamikuza Quote: Originally posted by Scudley Quote: Originally posted by Kamikuza Since when do laws make sense? Far more rational thought and discussion went into the writing of these laws than went into the design of kite killers. S What, like the helmet laws in the US, Prohibition, legalized tobacco addiction and that Act that protects random animals and plots of land cos the tree huggers get all upset? Go on, pull the other one

I've got to go with Kamikuza, if you think laws are carefully thought out, you have a much higher opinion of political committees than I do. The problem is that laws are usually thought out by a few people to further some aim and are then bent, broken, and mutilated by committee until they don't even resemble the original.

Quote:

Originally posted by LeonR I'm not sure if I even qualify to speak my opinion in this topic, i've only flown my kite about 5 times! My kS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-s are quite comfy and don't seem to get in the way, saying that I have only flown without buggys or boards so i'm not sure if they contribute anything. Assuming they always work as expected, the only reason you would not wear them is because your scared your kite could get tangled up in something else when your are cruising along? On my first flying experience a gust of wind really tugged the handles and I was a little scared of the power, so I let go... the kite fell to the ground. If I didn't wear KS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-s would it of just flown off across the field and got stuck somewhere? I feel a little inexperienced to comment really but was just saying my thoughts. I ask myself, why would you 'not' wear them?

Leon, even in your kiting youth you agree with me and probably half of those that have years of experience. I agree with you completely even at the risk of being looked down upon by the other half as one that must not "know how to fly kites" or "hasn't grown out of them yet". You keep on doing what you're doing and do it the way you feel safest and most in control.

Quote:

Originally posted by LeonR Assuming they always work as expected, the only reason you would not wear them is because your scared your kite could get tangled up in something else when your are cruising along?

Assuming they always work may not be a good assumption. See the video of the girl getting dragged.

Quote:

Originally posted by LeonR On my first flying experience a gust of wind really tugged the handles and I was a little scared of the power, so I let go... the kite fell to the ground. If I didn't wear KS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-s would it of just flown off across the field and got stuck somewhere?

Or as Ripsession contends it would have gone into a ball and gently fell to the ground and you would have to untangle your lines. Unless the area where you are flying has a lot of rotor, gravity will bring your kite to the ground pretty fast.

Quote:

Originally posted by LeonR I feel a little inexperienced to comment really but was just saying my thoughts. I ask myself, why would you 'not' wear them?

"your kite could get tangled up in something else when your are cruising along?" It is not your kite that is dangerous. It is the lines. Getting hit by a powered foil is startling, but it does not hurt, (I have been hit by a 7m bullet). Getting snagged by lines and having them drag across you is another thing all together.

Quote:

Originally posted by Scudley Quote: Originally posted by LeonR Assuming they always work as expected, the only reason you would not wear them is because your scared your kite could get tangled up in something else when your are cruising along? Assuming they always work may not be a good assumption. See the video of the girl getting dragged.

I think that sentence needs corrected, it should read "See the video of the girl being stupid." Most videos that I have seen where something horrible happens to someone while kiting is because they are using the kite in horrible conditions. And then people blame the safety gear for failing. Safety gear is never as useful when it is being outside of it's intended parameters.

And I think I am now done even reading any thread about kite killers. It's a "discussion" that will never end.

Quote:

Originally posted by awindofchange Scudly. On the second and third quotes of your post, you question the safety of the kite killers and "Does this increase their safety or just make them feel better? " Again I must say (IMO) YES to both quotes!, kite killers are not only safer for the pilot but also safer for the non-kiting people around you while you fly.

Please state how they make things safer. It is hard to have a rational discussion if one person just quotes dogma.

Quote:

Originally posted by awindofchange Most every surf kite comes with two complete and totally independent safety systems - both of which can be deployed at any time, one safety system to kill the kite, the other to totally release the kite from your person.

Sorry to cut out most of that paragraph but it had nothing to do with foils or kite killers. Seeing as my main complaint with kite killers is that there is no complete release thanks for backing my point. As an aside never been hit by an LEI, but I have been hit by a foil. It did not hurt.

Quote:

Originally posted by awindofchange So does this mean that we should boycott all types of safety systems on all kites, including surfing kites?

No, just the ones that will not allow you to completely release the kite.

Quote:

Originally posted by awindofchange "IF" the killers are deployed in the proper way

like air bags kite killers are a passive system how do you properly deploy them?

Quote:

Originally posted by awindofchangeI have personally witnessed numerous times where a new buggier was saved from being ripped from the buggy by kite killers.

If they did not have kite killers on, the kite would have been ripped from their hands and they would be left sitting in the buggy. How would they have been ripped from the buggy after the kite was ripped from their hands?

Quote:

Originally posted by awindofchange I have never once seen someone injured because of the use of the kite killers.

I guess I am way up on you there because not only have I seen it, but I have injured someone because of the use of kite killers.

Quote:

Originally posted by awindofchange Again if you are flying beyond your abilities or in winds that are just to strong - your gonna get hurt regardless of any safety system - kite killers or otherwise. If you take a kite out in winds that are way stronger than the recommended wind range or fly beyond your own ability, the kite killers are not going to save you and you take a huge risk in getting hurt. Kite killers DO NOT replace common sense and are not a "save all" gimmick. Anyways, thats my opinion on it. I am not in any way trying to convince (or force) anyone that you should or should not use kite killers. That is something that is probably best decided by you as the pilot and master of your own domain or flying field. Again these are ONLY my personal opinions and nothing more!!! I am only sharing them as such. I don't mean to try and change the way others fly or the way they feel about this subject - but more to give different experiences and insights on other peoples perspectives so they will be able to make the best decision possible. Hope that helps.

Same here. I have to say it really pysses me off when someone invents a fact, such as the French Law argument in a previous post, or spouts some other malarkey in favour of their view point. It is intellectually dishonest and may result in someone getting hurt.
S

Used correctly, they make things safer by totally de-powering the kite when you let go of the handles and then they stop the kite flying downwind and wrapping around powerlines, passing cars, kids on bikes etc. Safety for the user and safety for the public.
Especially in good winds - I'll tell my story again cos this is what I'm basing my 'dogma' on ... when I was learning and without KKs, I got hit by a gust and dumped my Rebble 5.0's handles - the kite floated on the wind like a parachute, still mostly inflated, downwind with the handles dragging on the ground while I ran after it - I caught it after a football field or so and it would have made it's way onto the road and still been airborn. It was a good wind that day and the kite didn't ball up.
Fast-forward to this year ... I had KS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-s on, I launched the 4.5 Bullet in gusty conditions and on the way off the ground, the handles got ripped out of my grip - the kite fluttered straight down, I picked the handles up and relaunched. If it had done the same thing my Rebble had done, it would have gone into powerlines, across a road ...
I've had my Kitewing ripped out of my hands in a gust too - I got pulled off my kite board and the leash got ripped from my wrist. If something is going to pull that hard, the velcro will give way long before you get dragged ... probably don't do 'em up so tight if you're worried about it!

What are the options if you don't have KKs on? Let go one handle - catapult it around your field. Let go two handles - lose control of the kite. Hold on and try to ride it out - god knows what'd happen - nose dive and worse probably ...

Scudley, have you seen the Ozone kitekillers? it seems these ones do allow you to have a quick release. They each have a big d-loop that you pull and off they come.

Personally I do see a place for kite killers (unhooked, learning, away from other kiters) and I do see a place for not using kite killers.

I don't use them any more, but I did get some good use out of them while learning. Only stopped using them when I started hooking in in the buggy- then they become dangerous in my opinion cause they can accidently get snagged in the spreader hook and send the kite in to a death spiral. Also, as pointed out, they don't work when they you are hooked in unless you can unhook- for me in this case, grabbing a handful of the break lines works just as well.

I have purposly deleted my full reply as I just don't have time to nit-pick every little word of every post or try to justify my comments that have been taken out of context.

Instead I will just stand by my origional statement and leave it at that.

Kite killers are safe when used responsibly.

I think that any information regarding this topic has been hashed, re-hashed and then regurgitated up and rehashed again - so - I don't feel there is any more need to continue or post any more.

Scudley, you have reminded me once again of why I originally chose to stay out of this post.

Now I am off to fly this weekend with some dear friends, give demo's and training... and I may even use kite killers. :)

Can I get zippers in my kite killers? That'd make me happy. :D

I have 2 kinds of KKs, flexifoil and HQ. Neither of them could drag me anywhere. I have already ripped 1 set to pieces in an OBE. Those litte bungee cords aren't sewn on that good. What kind does everybody else got?
I don't see the "unsafeness"in it. If you let go of the handles, the kite lays backwards . Being pulled by the brake lines only. At which point the kite is not a kite anymore but rather some ball of nylon flappin,around like a pigeon was caught in it. I have had the wind blowing enough that it just stayed in the air ,flappin around twisting the lineset all to crap. But it never had enough power to even slightly pull


I still use mine and anybody I teach to fly will wear em, at least while they are flying MY gear.

Weldngod, I use the flexifoil ones and they are comfortable,reliable (so far) and worn every time I fly a fixed bridle. I also fly at public use fields most of the time and they have always saved me and my kite from certain trouble when it arrives unexpectedly.

I had the field mainly to myself one day and a car pulled up and the couple got out to walk their dog. I was down field at the time and made a turn to come back up field. I saw the couple as well as the dog and they were plenty out of my way. As I got closer out of nowhere the dog bolted out into the field to intercept me and my buggy, I had no time to make any counter maneuvers so I let go of the handles to instantly depower my kite and the KS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-s kept my kite from heading directly into the tree line ahead of me. Not a life saving situation, just a kite saving situation. I was able to miss the dog, stop my kite and buggy safely, and continue by merely grabbing my handles again. Maybe if the dog had kite killers on (leash) I wouldn't have had to let go. Just one of those situations.

I like the fact that I can let go of my handles in a less than desirable situation and know that my kite, lines and handles are not going to interrupt someone elses day.

what a good discussion ... this is going better than a I love or hate pansh discussion

It has got steered off course a bit. I am going to try and throw it back on course. So my question goes out to those of you against kite killers ... would you reconsider the use of kite killers for others safer and more user friendly if they had a secondary safety release?

It kinda sounds like Ozone is on the right track, but I feel it would be safer if you only needed to pull one safety instead of having to pull the safety on both hands. JMHO

I'm simply trying to come up with a better kite killer idea so maybe if we can come up with a better kite killer we could all agree that they are a good idea to wear and end this debate.

Quote:

Originally posted by DAKITEZ would you reconsider the use of kite killers for others safer and more user friendly if they had a secondary safety release? It kinda sounds like Ozone is on the right track, but I feel it would be safer if you only needed to pull one safety instead of having to pull the safety on both hands. JMHO I'm simply trying to come up with a better kite killer idea so maybe if we can come up with a better kite killer we could all agree that they are a good idea to wear and end this debate.

Secondary release would go along to removing the hazards that I see. Ozone killers are certainly easier to remove than the flexifoil killers.

For those who think that the Velcro straps are not very strong, I tried a couple of experiments: using of ratcheting tie down straps to see if I could pull the Velcro apart on FF kite killer wrist cuff from a 2.5 steel pipe; see if the one cuff would support my body weight. I realize these are tests of static load, not dynamic but the cuff did not release loaded with my body weight or tightening the ratchet on the tie strap until I could not tighten it anymore. I think it indicates that the velcro cuff is not likely to release until loaded beyond the load required to dislocate a shoulder.

Quote:

I also frequently hand my kites to strangers, even my ten meter Reflex, but only if the conditions are such that if they let it go it will not result in: the loss of or damage to my kite; a hazard to anyone downwind. I also tell them to let go if they feel the need, but I do not endanger them by strapping them to my kite.

riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight
-I've been teaching friends and family for years, years, and years how to fly kites.-
Always used 'my' kites to teach with and always, always instructed/explained and demonstrated how letting go is the best policy(of course there is no one in harms way). Even with hard framed kites.
-I've been shaking my head for just as long-
because not one of any of them has ever "let go if they feel they need to" until long after they learn how to handle a kite. no amount of hollering "let go, let go", or "run ahead, run ahead", or "just keep the kite high in air for now" ever works until the kites have suffered a few hard crashes.
there is always thudding booms of a foil and/or cracking of framed kites involved in teaching.
maybe i'm just a bad teacher?
Paul
PS you really should just except the simple fact that some people prefer to use KKS (whether they need to or not)?

Quote:

Originally posted by revpaul PS you really should just except the simple fact that some people prefer to use KKS (whether they need to or not)?

I do not mind if people decide to use killers if they are making an informed decision. My sense from the replies submitted when I asked this question last year was that the decision was based on misinformation. Misinformation such as "I was not pulled out of the buggy because I had killers on." ( It is not the killers that prevented the OBE, but that you let go of the handles.) Making an informed decision requires the information you make the decision on to be correct. There is more BS about what kks do and do not do, such the one cited above, that makes for poor decision making.
How about :

• Kite killers work as required 99% of the time, but you may be in serious trouble when they do not.
  
• Kite killers are not a reason for flying a kite in winds you would otherwise think are beyond your ability.
  
• Kite killers will not save you from being dragged. It is letting go the handles. (Remember your first instinct is going to be to hold on
  
• Kite killers should not be used with a strop (if one killer released the kite may power up and be completely out of control.
  
• Kite killers are not to be used as a factor in deciding what kite you should fly.
  
• In rare event that kite killers fail to depower your kite. Getting the cuffs off is not going to be easy or fast expect to be dragged for some distance.
  
• Kite killers can prevent damage to your kite from things beyond the length of your kite lines.
  
• Kite killers bring objects within the length of your lines into are in danger. The is especially true if there is relative motion between these objects and the kite or pilot.
  
• Kite killers are less likely to depower a kite in turbulent conditions. A tangled bridal can cause your to suddenly be surprisingly efficient at flying backwards.
  
• Kite killers can prevent someone from being struck by a flying handle.
  
• Kite killers are not to be used as a factor in your decision as to the suitability of a flying location. If you would not fly there with out kite killers, you probably should not be flying there.
  

Feel free to add to that list or criticize what is there.
Someone pointed out that there are no studies of kite killers. I suggest there by topic for kite incidents so that we may review the information. It could a set of topics of its own: How I let go of my kite; My OBE; etc. Then we could have our own study on how to keep our sport safe are what are safe practices.
S

Quote:

Originally posted by Scudley Then we could have our own study on how to keep our sport safe are what are safe practices. S

ummm...

one assumption here, that you're working towards a set of safe practices for all kite flyers...

if so, a couple of problems.

1) every kite flyer flies with a different set of skills in a different location with different etc, and KS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-s can be appropriate in some of those situations because they can reduce the risks or the consequences of the risks.

2) every kite flyer ultimately takes the consequences for the risks they take. It's a very individual thing, really. So they should make their own decisions, with best facts possible at hand to refer to.

So I guess the best outcome in a way is for a resource from which people can decide for themselves, imho.

kinda the same as what you're saying?:puzzled:

Quote:

Originally posted by Scudley Kite killers will not save you from being dragged. It is letting go the handles. (Remember your first instinct is going to be to hold on)

And this is a big part of the problem with kite accidents that I can see - the situations that have me thinking "Why didn't he just let go?" With $2000 on the end of the lines, people don't like to let go and release the kite, they'll try to ride it out or fly it back under control - even if that's not a conscious decision.
KKs and leashes give me the confidence to just dump the kite - my first instinct is to let go

You've made a number of statements in that list that need to be backed up ... who says KKs work 99% of the time and you'll be in trouble if they don't? Who has said they use KKs to fly overpowered in locations and conditions they wouldn't fly without them? Who says KKs are less likely to depower in turbulent conditions?

This website has really gotten bad. I'm pretty much done.

Yes we learned to fly a long time ago with Wipika kites. But noone that I know of was trying to launch huge jumps or fly in crazy conditions right after getting a kite. No one knew you could do giant jumps, flips, ride huge waves etc. We flew responsibily. Did not exceed our skill levels and we flew when there was no chance of hitting something or someone down wind. Heck I never even crashed my Wipika kite.

It's an extreme sport and should be treated as such. Use whatever gear you want to but always fly within your skill level.

Scott