Both. You use the trimstrap to adjust the power for the current conditions. Readjust the strap as needed if the wind builds or drops during your session. You use the bar to adjust the power in the momentary gusts and lulls, tweek the power to setup for a jump and control your loft and landing during your jump.

No worries.

It comes into play anytime you need to get the kite to simmer down.

It could be used to tune the kite down to handle sudden wind changes like when a front comes through and you're out or it can be used simply to tone down the kite if you're fatigued and don't want to run at full power.

In my expirience (any feel free to correct me) a kite with trim usually has the wind range of at least 2 or 3 fixed bridal kites. They also seem to have a bit less power pound for pound.

We have an old 2m Samauri and a 3m Frenzy and the Sammy is a beast in high winds compared to the Frenzy.

Probably just beacuse its an older kite, but I had my 05 best nemesis out today and it didn't seem like adjusting the trim or sheeting in or out was doing anything.

Quote:

Originally posted by power Sorry for the hijack, but does depower only really come into play when you're moving or when you're flying the kite static as well?

You can play with a depower static flying and use the bar-pull to affect the amount of lift, but the "throttle" affect you have only kicks in while moving. You can feel the affect with the kite over at the edge of the window when its well powered. Pull the bar in and you'll feel it give you extra pull. This is what accelerates you when you are moving.

Quote:

Originally posted by Feyd No worries. It comes into play anytime you need to get the kite to simmer down. It could be used to tune the kite down to handle sudden wind changes like when a front comes through and you're out or it can be used simply to tone down the kite if you're fatigued and don't want to run at full power. In my expirience (any feel free to correct me) a kite with trim usually has the wind range of at least 2 or 3 fixed bridal kites. They also seem to have a bit less power pound for pound. We have an old 2m Samauri and a 3m Frenzy and the Sammy is a beast in high winds compared to the Frenzy.

Yup, seen a ~200lber noob getting worked by a 1.5m Quadrifoil Competition in winds I hold down my 11m Synergy in. I still get dropped jaws when the FB crowd sees the size of the kites I fly in the winds we fly them in. :wee:

I've been flying ARC's for so long now small FB kites scare the crap out of me now. :tumble:

Thanks again . I am fortunate I can fly all the P.L. gear as Rip brings it through + use team gear.

I guess it is a LOT about the jumps in sub 10 winds for me. I'll be very interested in how you feel the 19 performs that way. I think like you suggest that I will appreciate the aggresive nature with my 10 and hopefully 19. I'm thinking for now I'll stick with the forgiving nature of my 15m syn for those mid winds ?

I doubt I'll use anything smaller than a 10 much more than twice a year but may pick up a 6 if I feel flush before NABX ?

@Bladerunner-What kind of jumps are you expecting to get with the 19m in sub 8? It has always seemed to me like light winds just wouldn't cut it for jumping any decent height no matter how big of a kite you have, but what do I know?

Well ......... I'm still working on my jumps and have only been pulling them off in well in 14mph + winds.
In decent winds I take advantage of speed and edge to pop and then follow through. Harder ='s higher.
In my last couple of sessions on the arc I could build some decent speed in pretty low winds. When I cut and sent it the results were limited and often was just me jumping with no prolonged lift involved.

I guess I was hoping to get more out of the apperant winds? If that makes sense ?

Apparent wind still confuses me...

...and it's not a simple thing to explain. just googled it, didn't find any good kite-related explanations, wikipedia entry sucks, this is one of the better links i found. I understand it well from sailing, but it takes a while for folks starting out to get it...

here's one of the better links:

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/learning-sail-articles/18848-u...

basically as you use the wind to gain velocity, you create apparent wind. the more efficient your sailing vehicle, the more you can create. this allows you to attain speeds higher than the wind on some angles. a really efficient vehicle (ice boat, race buggy, long skis with sharp edges on ice) can attain speeds up to about 4x the wind speed, but 2-3 is a more common multiplier.

I ain't BR, much less Feyd, but hope that helps.

Angus gives a great explanation on his
Apparent wind tutorial

Quote:

Originally posted by Bladerunner Thanks again . I am fortunate I can fly all the P.L. gear as Rip brings it through + use team gear. I guess it is a LOT about the jumps in sub 10 winds for me. I'll be very interested in how you feel the 19 performs that way. I think like you suggest that I will appreciate the aggresive nature with my 10 and hopefully 19. I'm thinking for now I'll stick with the forgiving nature of my 15m syn for those mid winds ? I doubt I'll use anything smaller than a 10 much more than twice a year but may pick up a 6 if I feel flush before NABX ?

LOL .. thats because your a RSK KB Rider.

the smallest size available on the first batch was the 8m, and the second batch that just came in has the 6m. all sizes are available accept for the 24m if they even need one.

my water / landboard quiver will only be CH 10 / 19 - FS SIII 15m and/or 19m Deluxe

after using a SYN 15m and knowing how far I can push it passed the Suggest Windrange and having BR and TMDC run after me grabbing everything they can to keep me in the ground. I can easily adjust trim to reduce the power since the CH has more over the SYN.
Also talking with Gunnar the CH has got more float over the SYN, so high air, with more time to get tricks in. I still believe that you need a big kite to suspend you in the air like a paracute than using something smaller and dropping like a rock.

i've read the KF post, sounds odd but he did refer to Mr.Airtime (Carlb) about the line/bar problems.
dunno about anyone else, but with the amount of CH that we got in, NOT one person has called me yet to complain or get an exchange. I however did recieve a lot of emails how happy and fast they are. hehehe.

Im not anti LEI, but each kite has its bonuses and drawbacks, there is no one perfect kite.

I thought gunnar wasn't riding for pl anymore?

Just because he's no longer a team rider doesn't mean he's not allowed to fly.

but it kinda does. you are contracted to fly a brand of kite. he flys for FS now and that was the reason he sold his chargers before xmas.

Ahh, I knew he was no longer a team rider for PL. I did not know that he had become a team rider for FS.

But it still answers power's question. He did fly the PL Charger for a bit.

as he calls it "his baby" as he was one of the lead test pilots!

Quote:

Originally posted by power Probably just beacuse its an older kite, but I had my 05 best nemesis out today and it didn't seem like adjusting the trim or sheeting in or out was doing anything.

its a c-kite, its OFF or ON not a real depower. you might notice on the water a little but a min. constantly on or fly it to an idle position at the edge of the window

Well, I've ridden my 15M Charger a few times on the snow now both in light winds and winds up to 20 mph. It was cetainly more fun in 15-20, but that's because I like lots of power. You can ride in 8-10 on snow, but 15+ is lots of fun! I'm a PL guy, but this is fact, the Chargers turn fricken fast! I really couldn't believe it. And like Feyd was saying, lots of pop and airtime. I noticed it was much more agressive. I can see why it's good for "new school" stuff, it rips you into the air. I found the higher jumps weren't quite as floaty, but the kite got you up there. I think it could be my timing since it turns so fast... I'm not used to it. On my 19 Syn I went in the air and was redirecting pretty much the whole time. Not so on the 15 Charger. I'd have it all the way to the side of the window in no time dropping me faster. It's FAST! Lots of depower. That long throw bar really is nice. I ride stock everything so never tried another bar. I'm getting used to the new bar. Stability is still rock solid. It's the best arc and I'd go as far as to say, much better then the Syn. I can see now why they dropped the Syn. At first I was sad, but in reality, it's been replaced.

I can't wait to ride the others. If you've been thinking about a Charger, you have to demo one. It's crazy. I think LEI guys would even be happy on them now. I rode it side by side with a 12M Manta2 and the 15 Charger was much faster. The manta had slower floatier jumps, but like I said, could be timing because the manata turned so much slower. I definitly went much higher on the Charger. I love it. Can't wait to ride it all winter long. It's hard to let go of the kites we know, but this one is worth it. Don't ride one unless you'll be able to handle going back to your old kite. I'm screwed now. How can I go back to riding my venoms after this..

You nailed it. It's so completely different from every other Arc I've ridden. And the turn rate really relieves me of any envy I had for how fast the inflatables turn.

I sometimes have trouble with getting good glide as well. I'm not a great jumper by any stretch but I've gotten good glide out of it periodically. I think what I'm doing is being too heavy handed once I'm in the air and moving the kite out of the optimal position to maintain glide. Not a lot but enough.

I've been landing smooth and been getting good air but not consitent glide. I suspect the 19m will give loads of glide but I haven't hardly used it lately because of the broad wind range on the 15m. It's really amazing.

I thought I saw a branch blowing in the wind just now. Turnned out to be a squirrel. Damn.

High Pressure Systems=Anger meter being pinned.

here is a new, great video showing the obviously highly improved lowend (snowkiting, 15sqm charger, 6-8 knots)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vw9G52HCPxo

fullHD video !

has anyone who tried these also tried a speed 3?
I was just looking for a comparison.

the Speed 2 has better bottom end than does the S3....................7 kts and Im upwind on water with the 19m S2...................................10 mph of wind can produce 10 foot jumps or higher if you know what your doing....................................pics in the kitesurfing gallery with a 19m S2 in 9 to 12 mph winds..........................

The charger is the perfect kite for landboard , very smoth . hard to re-lauch at the beginner ( at less for me .. no an expert with arcs) but once is in the sky ....is safe and fast and very good to progress in land.

Very easy to ajust the power , i hate when a kite pull like a truck and i cant ajust it easy.

I put up the 10m Charger in 18mph winds the other day for use in the buggy the other day and had to take it down right away. It had all the stability of a monkey on crystal Meth and I felt that the moment that I took my eyes off it to watch for toddlers or puppies on the beach that I was going to clothesline someone- it turns so fast. I was flying it on my 50 cm Twinskin bar from the Synergy 15, but the medium Navigator bar would offer only 5 cm less, so I do not think that was the issue.

I've heard veteran ARC riders say that the Synergy turns too fast- can be accidentally kitelooped - but I dropped the Charger immediately and put up the Syn 15 and felt at ease and relaxed. That's how squirrely the Charger is.

I've had several customers buy Chargers and come back for more in different sizes, and they sell out at PL frequently, so they have their place. Just not for me.

Just deepens the slow burn I feel when PL (VO, really) thinks that the current ARC is the only kite worthy to sell and takes the others off the market. Even if they were not designed by VO, just about every ARC since the Phantom and VII have their place in the market to accommodate different disciplines and riding styles and could be sold new.

Anyone want a Charger 10m kite-only cheap?

why dont you simply remove the VPC bridle ? then you should get slower turning similiar to the good old arcs... ???

Quote:

Originally posted by herc why dont you simply remove the VPC bridle ? then you should get slower turning similiar to the good old arcs... ???

Good idea. Phantomize it.

Had the Syn 15m out today, trying to kite surf under it not enough wind and too small board for my fat arse and lack of skill, although I got a few good runs and one great one.
Man, does that thing turn fast! Compared to the bow kites I've flown, it was like a missile! And lift? Doing nothing other than what I was doing with the 12m Phantom, I was further up and hanging in the air like someone turned off the gravity ...

... makes me wish I'd kept the V2 19 for comparison ...

I completely here you on the sketchy control with the 10m. I am counting on getting used to it . The auto zenith is also not exactly as reliable as with my 15 Syn. Can't and don't trust it yet.

My 15n Syn feels like the kite is designed to avoid hurting me if I make a mistake ( my kind of kite ) . The 10 in a good wind feels like it will punish me if I make a mistake. Presently I find my 7m Pulse more forgiving in the same CLEAN winds. When the wind gets bumpy or shifty the Charger feels better.

I am getting antsy to recieve my 15m Charger and compare.

Why could VO not bring back the Syn ? I think it was their design? I know it would cost more to produce now but so far it seems to match my style best. If a want a kite that is more like a C kite . I'll buy a C kite ? I don't think the Phantom is my 1st choice either. Thing is, I know I am the minority so doubt I'll see a Syn II ?

Angus, would it not be pretty simple to go VP2 ?