When I have considered breaking this record, it has seemed best to have the passenger sitting on the axle with legs crossed between the side rails. The passenger's legs would rest on the seat straps. I would have to remove the rear number plate and cross bar to open up the spot. Even with this sort of #@%$#!pit for the passenger, I'm afraid of something happening fast like it can over 50 mph and causing the passenger to get tossed. It's likely that everything would go fine, but...........

I don't think we need to remove this or any other record, I'm just stating my thought process and that I personally can't reconcile the risk to my passenger with the small notoriety that would come by breaking or setting some record that really doesn't mean that much in the big scheme of things.

stupid people are going to do stupid things no matter what we say or do. I like the category, you have to go through a lot prep work just to prove you done it, I think already the rules will promote planning and preparation, but keep in mind, there will always be stupid people. I was giving rides last weekend and the buggy was prepared with a seat, handles and stirrups for the passengers and of course we always use protective gear and I have insurance. My daughter Tyler and I just reached 30 mph, we had a blast!

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Originally posted by markite in the future should we dissuade anyone from taking a passenger standing on the back axle? Going so fast on a dry lake or anywhere with a person just crouched and holding on is an accident waiting to happen if the buggy were to suddenly swerve and the person fell off at that speed.

All speed records can be dangerous, and should be respected and treated with caution....I will never break the speed record, because I consider the winds needed too dangerous....I have mentally made my own risk assessment, and that should happen with every risky situation

Well we are all hurtling around in 3 wheeled, tip over prone, non crash tested vehicles with no brakes that we steer with our feet. Just sayin'.....

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Originally posted by bigkid Quote: Originally posted by shehatesmyhobbies Actually, Ricardo still holds this record. It sits at 86 kmh. Dont forget Maria holds that record also.

Very true Jeff. My mistake, I did not leave Maria out intentionally, or mischieviously. ;-)

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Originally posted by heliboy50 Well we are all hurtling around in 3 wheeled, tip over prone, non crash tested vehicles with no brakes that we steer with our feet. Just sayin'.....

I'm stealing that. Well said.

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Originally posted by geokite I hope we are not hoping to keep our sport safe in the eyes of insurance companies based on a hope that only experienced pilots will attempt such a record. Can we at least attempt to look like we care about these things folks?

Having insurance proves that we care and take responsibility.

Record attempts like this aren't taken lightly. I just fear self imposed restrictions on record attempts like this by people who can't or won't do it themselves for whatever reason. That wouldn't be fair.

With all the talk about removing, or keeping this category, and all the thoughts from everyone who will be in the pilot seat, I would like to hear from Maria on whether she would do it again or not.
I know for myself that putting anyone on the back axle is asking a lot of the person. I would never ask my wife to "have a seat". Sorry, I would never put my wife in that position or ask her so I can be a BMOC and get my name posted on a list..
I spent last weekend with the rumble seat and a weight setup for the front axle so I would be able to use the front tire for what it was designed to do. Just giving rides at very low speeds with someone on the rear axle scares the hell out of me, I know I am the only one who feels this way, Just saying.

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Originally posted by RedSky Having insurance proves that we care and take responsibility. Record attempts like this aren't taken lightly.

Really? How does getting insurance, which removes liability and financial risk, prove caring and responsibility? It proves you don't want to put your assets at risk.
I was not there, but my understanding the first record was done pretty much on the spur of the moment without much prep or thought put into it all.
You will notice that Guinness does not keep certain types of records anymore to limit their liability from encouraging people to do dangerous and stupid things for fame or profit.
S

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Originally posted by Scudley Quote: Originally posted by RedSky Having insurance proves that we care and take responsibility. Record attempts like this aren't taken lightly. Really? How does getting insurance, which removes liability and financial risk, prove caring and responsibility? It proves you don't want to put your assets at risk. I was not there, but my understanding the first record was done pretty much on the spur of the moment without much prep or thought put into it all. You will notice that Guinness does not keep certain types of records anymore to limit their liability from encouraging people to do dangerous and stupid things for fame or profit. S

Third party public liability insurance. I don't know what insurance you have but mine doesn't cover assets and nor did I seek it out. We have a responsibility to the public who share our beaches.

When the wind is blowing 50mph on-shore I doubt if I or anyone would ask someone at random to sit on the back axle.

Also, nobody is asked to do something they don't want to do. I wouldn't ask our wives unless they were fully aware of the risks. The candidate must be a fellow buggy rider, not wife or kids. That's just common sense. No one is placed on the back.

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Originally posted by RedSky Third party public liability insurance. I don't know what insurance you have but mine doesn't cover assets and nor did I seek it out. We have a responsibility to the public who share our beaches. When the wind is blowing 50mph on-shore I doubt if I or anyone would ask someone at random to sit on the back axle. Also, nobody is asked to do something they don't want to do. I wouldn't ask our wives unless they were fully aware of the risks. The candidate must be a fellow buggy rider, not wife or kids. That's just common sense. No one is placed on the back.

Your third party liability protects assets such your home from being seized to pay damages, provided you have enough to cover any damages.
Is the current record valid by your criteria? Was Maria a buggier at the time?
S

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Originally posted by RedSky Also, nobody is asked to do something they don't want to do. I wouldn't ask our wives unless they were fully aware of the risks. The candidate must be a fellow buggy rider, not wife or kids. That's just common sense. No one is placed on the back.

I had to have a second look and now I understand.
The way life in the UK is NOT like the West
Coast of the USA. The East Coast of the US is just as different as the West Coast is. Not that we are people with 1 eye and 3 arms, but the thoughts, ideas, and attitudes are as different as day and night. Unless you are from here, you really have no idea of the people or the way of thinking.
We do not need or require insurance for anyone in the USA to operate a wind driven vehicle. If we belong to NAPKA or NABSA we are covered by the insurance if we attend one of their events. Most of us have personal medical insurance, but it is not required.

As for the wind blowing 50mph and someone riding on the back axle of a bug, where there are people, there is an idiot ready to fill the spot of stupidity. You tube is full of those type of people, if it is possible for someone to think up an idea, there are those that will do it whether or not they are able to pull it off. Why do you think the words,"don't try this at home" came about?

I wouldn't ask my wife, my kids, my grandkids, or YOU, to sit on the axle while I try to be the fastest. I have a bit more respect for everyone including YOU, than to put someone else in a position of danger for my own pride. Whether we have a waiver or some type of disclaimer to sign, we are still liable for anything that could happen. Maybe not where you live, but here we have to many lawyers and greedy idiots who can and will take your money. Or maybe I am wrong.

um guys, I think we all agree having someone sit on the rear axle willy nilly to ride and/or attempt to break the speed record is a bad idea.....right? there will be people that do stupid things no matter what we do or say, no matter whether it is a category or not, even if it is against the law they will do it, to say we encourage this behavior is ludicrous. if we are taking the proper pro-cations then if anything we are setting the right example and that is all we can do.

I have taken someone on the back around 50mph, I used to do it all the time, that was how I got different camera angles a few years ago when I started recording runs...most of the time it was 30 or so mph....I even had my younges son about 16 at the time sitting on my rear axle, one hand holding on one hand holding the camera....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_vbNt0HbHU&feature=plcp

I had so much fun taking people on the back and they did too....also when Riccardo was asking for volunteers for a sitter at the back of his buggy during nabx 2012....to try an break the record, I jumped at the chance, I would have no worries doing that with an experienced pilot....unfortunately he injured himself early into NABX and was side lined for most of the event.

Incidently, I have noticed Riccardo is now "selling all his gear" on facebook......again...hope he is ok...I mean really ok

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Originally posted by popeyethewelder unfortunately he injured himself early into NABX and was side lined for most of the event.

I'm glad you didn't go with on that run.

Ok I think I got this straight. Anybody who does something outside the norm is wreckless, irresponsible, and stupid? That's it. Selling my kites to go back to dual line stuff, cutting up my buggy, and buying a rockville.

Hmmmmmmmmmmm, How far outside the box we talking about?:puzzled: Are you able to grab onto part of the box if all heck breaks free?

Maybe stupid was a tad bit over the edge, on second thought, it was way over the line. How about courageous, outrageous, and intelligent?
"wreckless, irresponsible, and stupid", were the thoughts going through my wife's head as she was told by the ER Doctor, "I can't believe he made it into the ER, by all rights he shouldn't have made it off the beach". But what the hell does the doctor or my wife know.

Guess its the glass is half full, half empty thing.

It sounds like I just called pops stupid....see what you guys made me do
I'm sure if pops felt that he was putting his boy in a unreasonable amount of danger then he would have come up with something different. what I mean by stupid things are things that are clearly stupid. I watched the video of Ricardo and Maria setting the current record and although I would have set up a proper seat for the passenger, I didn't see it as being stupid, she looked reasonably safe to me, I mean for what it is anyway. I think we are all nuts for what we are doing here but I think most of us are using a reasonable amount of cation as well........can we end this now before Josh puts his gear on the for sale page

ha ha...Mike, I didnt think that for a moment....and Jeff we all respect what you have been through, and listen to your caution ad advice.....

The reality is we all make our own decisions in life and what risks we are prepared to take, of course some times, even with calculated risks we get caught out as you did, but, the reality is no matter what anyone else says.....we make our own choices....if you looked at the runs I did with my lad and the guy I did over 50mph with....niether were as safe as Maria was....my guys were litterally sitting on the rear axle, with their legs over the side rails.....their feet litterally an inch or so off the sand, and if their feet had caught the sand, boken legs would have surely resulted, hence my very strict instructions to "keep your feet up".... add to that the danger of hanging on with one hand and videoing with the other.....like you mentioned..."Please do not try this at home folks"...

I probably broke every unwritten rule in the book....we were lucky, others may not be....I do not tell anyone what they should or should not do, they make their own choices in their lives and hopefully right choices.

I never went out to break any records, just to capture on board buggy video footage, and this was 5-6 years ago....there was very little on board footage at the time, and this was a great way to let viewers have a little insight to what our sport looked like from our point of view.

Nowadays, there are great sports cameras and great camera mounts, I have no need to carry people on my rear axle

I BTW, am not trying to wind anyone up or cause any controversy, but I do enjoy these types of disscusions

Very well said Carl!

I know my wife has gotten used to the idea that I put a big kite up and take off on a buggy or board. Or strap a kite to me and go into the water. She used to hate it,(hence the name here shehatesmyhobbies) but has gotten used to it. I am lucky enough to have only scored a couple broken ribs, and a bruise here and there. But that is the risk I was willing to take when I took in to this sport. Eventually we all get hurt sometimes, it's part of the game. We can do our best to minimize the consequences, but the risk will always be there.

Stay safe boys and girls!

Ride on!

I hate veggies!

I like turtles

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Originally posted by sunset-Jim I like turtles

X2

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Originally posted by shehatesmyhobbies Actually, Ricardo still holds this record. It sits at 86 kmh. Brian holds the record for fastest 1 buggy, 1 pilot, 1 kite.

Oh poop!!! I feel like a major dufus.... I totally missed the bit about "1 passenger"

Thank you for pointing out my lackluster skills of observation

Woot woot! Go Rips!!!!!!!

I forgot to add this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMNry4PE93Y&noredirect=1

That's funny!

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Originally posted by bigkid Quote: Originally posted by RedSky Also, nobody is asked to do something they don't want to do. I wouldn't ask our wives unless they were fully aware of the risks. The candidate must be a fellow buggy rider, not wife or kids. That's just common sense. No one is placed on the back. I had to have a second look and now I understand. The way life in the UK is NOT like the West Coast of the USA. The East Coast of the US is just as different as the West Coast is. Not that we are people with 1 eye and 3 arms, but the thoughts, ideas, and attitudes are as different as day and night. Unless you are from here, you really have no idea of the people or the way of thinking. We do not need or require insurance for anyone in the USA to operate a wind driven vehicle. If we belong to NAPKA or NABSA we are covered by the insurance if we attend one of their events. Most of us have personal medical insurance, but it is not required. As for the wind blowing 50mph and someone riding on the back axle of a bug, where there are people, there is an idiot ready to fill the spot of stupidity. You tube is full of those type of people, if it is possible for someone to think up an idea, there are those that will do it whether or not they are able to pull it off. Why do you think the words,"don't try this at home" came about? I wouldn't ask my wife, my kids, my grandkids, or YOU, to sit on the axle while I try to be the fastest. I have a bit more respect for everyone including YOU, than to put someone else in a position of danger for my own pride. Whether we have a waiver or some type of disclaimer to sign, we are still liable for anything that could happen. Maybe not where you live, but here we have to many lawyers and greedy idiots who can and will take your money. Or maybe I am wrong.

There's no legal requirement here in the UK to have insurance for buggy riding, just as in the US, it's entirely at the riders discretion but nearly everyone here does because we love our sport and we know it wouldn't take much for the knee jerk reactive authorities here to cast a blanket ban.

We do what we can to show that we are responsible, that's all. And yes I agree with what you say.

I was just defending the right of people to act foolishly whether we see them as hero's or not so long as they exercised all precautions and didn't put our sport at risk.

And anyway, all credit should be given to the brave soul hanging off the back axle. The buggy pilot has the easy job.

These records keep things interesting and I'd like to see them stay, otherwise kite buggying will become as interesting as mowing grass.

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I forgot to add this

That was breaking news worth watching!!!!

I'll sit on the back Beaver ... might need to add weights to the front so we dont pop a wheelie.

Disclaimer: If you dont approve or agree with what I am willing to do ... Dont watch! I trust the buggy and pilot and I want a free ride.

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Originally posted by popeyethewelder I BTW, am not trying to wind anyone up or cause any controversy, but I do enjoy these types of disscusions

I agree, I enjoy the bantering back and forth. Some of the other stuff gets under my skin when , nevermind.


I would still like to hear from Maria.

I do have a set up for adding weight to the front of the apex, if anyone is interested. I found that adding a little less than 1/2(less if they are leaning forward) the riders weight to the front(if they are over the axle) will make the bug handle great. I dont carry any more than 100lbs, so the big ones will have to watch.:wink2: