It's not so much hating on the light wind performance, it's just that the kites really come into their own and work so well when powered and a very high end on the range.
I think you would find being able to ride a twin tip comfortably at 10knts is rare. A little more wind than that most could start riding but that would still mean working the kite a lot and maybe even using a surfboard. But most of the guys I ride with are heavier than you as we'll.

The problem for me is that the average wind here is sub 10Kts.

I am actually pretty happy with my 18m Phantom's low end . I still need something for Sub 6 ! Hoping the 15m Aurora might fill that hole. If not I will sell it + the EsS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K- and get a Speed.

I'm ok with my 24M Phanny on the low-end...just use long lines!
Very happy, and moving right along in 6-7mph...long lines let me plow through any "dead" air and keeps forward momentum (which it likes).

I need to get video on long lines to show ya'll...while riding... It's interesting...and somewhat impressive how the big ARC seems to create pull in very little wind...

I will say that it does take a bit of skill launching, flying...and KEEPING the momentum...but I'm learning more each session..

Officially, I've never had my big Phantom out in more than 10mph....So...I make it work with what I got.....can't wait to get a bit more juice behind the monster though....

Ya baby - long lines on the right kite and the right conditions can be magical

I hate on the Arc for low wind because I know I can buggy with a light FB in winds where the Arc will fall from the sky. An FB can provide power with less work and I have more fun.

That said, the Arc in 8MPH of clean wind is more fun than that FB in 6MPH or 4MPH. I choose my kites and conditions carefully to maximize fun/$ and fun/trip.

Philip

My Guerilla bag isn't the original one (I'm sure someone along the line hung onto it for obvious reasons), but it's an expandable bag like the one I have for the Waroo. It's not quite long enough to contain the Guerilla + spars.

This made me curious, so I went and measured it. The spar is about 5 feet and across the middle where the zipper is just over 6.5 feet. That's a pretty big bag.

I enjoyed my 16m scorpion. It was the only big arc I've tried. But I found it great to tie to the bumper of my truck when I needed a break and the kite would just bob there in the sky. It was great when I got brave enough to finally fly it in 35km gusting to 42km winds. Best land board session I've had. Learning curve was a bit of pain at first, but I managed. It had a nice straight up,brief hover and float down feel when you jumped. In light winds I had to work to get things going and generate good power. I found that in the snow if I wasn't careful on setup, often a line catching I'm the crust, would cause a botched launch. A leaf blower would have added a lot more sessions with them I think. Best part is that this forum has some of the most knowledgeable arc flyers. There is a huge resource here that can help get you up and flying in no time. Did I also mention that they are a super cool experience to fly.

The auto zenith is really nice. I remember kiting with the late AJ in Galveston's southwest end. We were doing some downwind kitesurfing runs because the wind wasn't quite enough to stay upwind. I had a 17m Fuel, and he had a large Phantom (I think). Every time we walked back up the beach, he was able to walk without his hands on the control bar. The kite just stayed in the air. I had to provide constant steering to my kite to keep it from crashing. I now have an ARC and think about that day every single time I walk upwind on the beach with my hands off of the bar.

Jason, I'm glad you got to know AJ. I ran across his username when looking at members that don't post as much or at all like they used to. I miss his knowledge and his friendship.

I remember the name AJ, but can someone put me in the right direction towards him? What was his username? (unless it was just AJ) the search won't search for just two characters. Thank.

Mark,

AJ (Charles Jackson, AKA "Action Jackson") was an avid kite flyer who I had heard about since my beginning days of kite flying in Lafayette, LA. When I moved to Houston, I ran into him a few times. He had a sweet job that allowed him to get off early and buggy and kitesurf for a few hours every day that it was windy. He was a big fan of ARCs. He is actually the first person I ever saw flying an ARC. He used to attach the chicken loop to the hitch on his yellow Nissan Xterra and let his ARC stay in the air between sessions. Even then, I thought that ARCs were cool. He told me one of the reasons he liked them so much was because he could easily launch and land them by himself. He was a big fan of Peter Lynn and told me that he wanted to ride a Peter Lynn kiteboat from Texas to Florida. I don't know if he ever did.

He tragically passed away in a kitesurfing accident in North Carolina in September of 2011.

Sorry to hijack this post.

-Jason

http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=19511&p...

Action Jackson R.I.P.

Thanks guys.

Sorry to go off topic.

R.I.P AJ.

I don't suppose we, or the general kiting populace would be so down on the Arcs low end ability if there weren't kites like Flysurfer SA out there doing what they do. Maybe the low end on Arcs doesn't suck but that the low end on FS is so good?

Low end on Arcs varies greatly in application. When I won the Mille Lacs Crossing on the Synergy they were plenty of LEIs out there that were clearly better suited for low wind riding. The difference was that with the Arc I had to really REALLY work for it. I used every low wind flying skill I had to make that kite get the job done. Is it the kite's flight limitations or our limitiations or lack of willingness to work the hell out of a kite that determine it's performance limits?

On another note. Yesterday on the clean ice I launched from a location that get's a lot of traffic. I was going to be about 14 miles away while I was riding and unable to see my anchor so I didn't want to risk leaving anything to be taken. So I set one of the screws I carry on me when I ride for a temporary anchor. The winds were unreal steady so I actually inflated the kite per PL directions and holy cats it inflated in about 6 seconds. (Unreal) Hooked a VPC to it to hold it. Took my lines and laid them out downwind and back to me and the kite. Attached the lines to the inflated kite in clamshell position, hooked in and unhooked the wing from the anchor. The kite drifted downwind until the lines were tight and then I launched it. I guess it's what you water guys call a drift launch? So the kite was in the air, I unscrewed my ice screw and away I went. No muss no fuss.:D

After having broken 5 spars and lost over 4 hours to arc setup shenanigans this last Thursday, I have to say that I'm seriously considering replacing my dead arc with a foil. Between spars, inflation, flopping about, trying to keep lines sorted, the larger size,and the frustration of walking the lines dozens of times per launch, I think.the minutiae are getting to me. I miss being able to ride if I have an hour or two. I love arcs and they are the best kites for my kind of riding (and my wind), but my wind also makes unpack + inflate + lines + launch often take over an hour. I started using my own inflator which helps but now I have to remember one more thing and also batteries. If I ever move to a coastal state, I'm all over the arcs. I think, though, that I wont be buying any more anytime soon.

Proletariat- please explain how launch take's an hour. It takes me about 5 minutes. I unpack the kite, open her up, unroll the lines, gear up, attach the lines and she's up. The only part that adds more time than a foil would is attaching the lines, but that takes a minute tops.

Leave the bar on the kite. Then you can get the kite in the air in 4 minutes.

One bar per kite. It's the only way to fly. :-)

Philip

tl;dr

If I did land-boarding at all, I'd have arcs... cheap, tough, simple, and stable.

But for the water - the choppy lake - they're just no good for me and my fat arse. They love board/air speed and will boost and float like mothers... I bet they'd be fun on a surfboard.

Setup is easy... unless it's really dirty wind.

AJ... gone but not forgotten.

I think that 1 hour and 5 minutes are both pretty extreme examples of setup ?

I have experienced both the launch from hell and more often it all goes well. The launch from hell usually includes shifting strong winds and a crossed line or 2.

I have NEVER been able to simply set out my arc and it was self filled while I put on my gear? I often baby sit the kite and put gear on at the same time but I don't think I gain a lot of time ?

I think with a fill assist stuck into my fill zipper, smooth winds and rushing things I could prove that 5 minutes is enough but it would take effort and not leave room for safety checks .

Arcs were my first love kiting I have to say but that was a few years back and times change. I don't think their is any hidden problems with them though many enthusiasts do exaggerate their plus points.

They are quite power hungry for sure and work best at the top end of their wind range. I never had any luck launching in less that 10knots although the 19m Venom pulled pretty well in that.
The spars in the wing-tips are a week poin IMO and add to set up time unless you leave them in the kite. then it takes up a fair bit of room.

Auto zenith and stability are nice when learning and they are great for jumps when powered up. They are good for travelling because they are light and pack down small when you take the spars out.

Depends what you are going to use it for. Buggy, landboard or snow - an arc is a good choice but there is no way i would use one on the water. Modern LEI do everything better.

Personal preference plays a big part in kiting I think - all the way down to specific models and sizes of kite. the best kite for what you do is the one that you like best.

Yeah... what Bladerunner said. I recently found out that a TON of my setup time was due to a leaky kite. So after flopping around like crazy and walking back to the Kite around a dozen times, I'd launch and it would immediately bowtie and/or invert. Most of that was that it wasn't full enough, so I'd go fill it up, walk back to the bar, but then the lines are underneath the far end so I'd.go.fix.that, then it'd be low on air.... etc...

Leaving the bar attached certainly saved a TON of time once I started doing it. I absolutely love arcs and think they're brilliant. If any of you spoiled coastal people lived in Colorado, you'd know exactly how quickly this flopping about becomes the primary issue... At JIBE, I was up and running in minutes. Its amazing how hard it is here.

Conversely, I just got a new flysurfer psycho3 yesterday. Today I had a free hour, so I went out, unrolled it, flew for an hour, rolled it up and left. We will have to see, but that was a pretty unique and amazing experience for me.