I had an excellent experience loaning equipment at BANX this year. Phillip Chase (who I had only met at JIBE once before) mentioned online that he was coming and would hope someone had a buggy he could borrow. I knew right away Phillip was a stand up guy that any of us would be proud to call a friend so I offered up that I would have possibly 2 buggies to loan out most days and he was welcome to his choice.

By the last day of the event, Phillip had used both the PTW and Libre and each ended up with issues. The PTW had a weld break on the end of the rear axle probably due to the rough surface on the lakebed this year and the leverage the landsegler wheels put on the buggy when ridden by a skilled pilot (like Phillip). The Libre had a tire that ended up threadbare from Phillip's riding as well. Phillip sincerely offered to buy me a new tire and to pay any costs related to the repair of the axle. I told him that he didn't do anything to the buggy that Wexler wouldn't have and he possibly kept Wexler from getting hurt by exposing the weakness in the axle. It was just timing that had Phillip sitting in the buggy when it broke.

Kent from A Wind of Change graciously and effectively repaired the axle for me and for no charge but being friends even though I argued to pay him. Kent is a hard one to find ways to do nice things for but I continue to look for opportunities. His generosity is unrivaled.

The tire was one that Markite gave me half worn out after NABX 12 so no way would it be fair for Phillip to pay me for it.

In the end I realized I was surrounded by generous, responsible, good friends and all of us were looking out for each other. Lucky guy I am.

You werent there, believe jeff all you want... In writing up a couple posts it says i'll help out... What more do you want from me?

My point, you and jeff calling me out for lack of integrity and morals doesnt help the situation at all... And like I said you dont know a damn thing about me, and knowing jeff doesnt change that... Trashing a stranger on a forum board sure tells me a lot about you tho.

So, if you are going to help resolve this issue great! If not, kindly back off



Im off for the week... The people that need to contact me have my info

Wow- i guess i was being stupid that i did not see this thread veer coming- i was really looking for more posts like beamer bobs to reaffirm what i already thought- that the folks i have meet in the kiting community may have different backgrounds, political views, or opinions but the basic building blocks of humanity- character and integrity are found among us. Lets try and bring this back to what I meant it to be a poll to see what others thought about personal responsibility. As for those who said lender beware- Please dont ask to use my stuff- others its available if i am not useing it

JIBE sounded like an absolutely awesome event and I wish I was there. Although reading threads like this is intriguing, they are destructive to the PKF community and tarnish an otherwise great experience most had.

If I was a moderator, I would lock the threads and post a final comment that says "take it offline, gentlemen."

Less drama, more fun.

Think I'll get a rockville! You never hear of those getting trashed/wrecked, or anything else!

Seriously, I think it would be best for those of us who were not there to let this slide. It would be better handled by those involved to handle this in a more private manner.

We all loan gear from time to time. I recall loaning my 11m UL frenzy to someone at fall sobb last year. Didn't know the kid, but let him fly anyway. Eli pointed out that if the kid blew the kite out, or damaged it he could not afford to fix/replace.

It was my call. Fortunately the kite and rider survived.

Now having said that; I am running out of socks. Can someone loan me a pair?

Quote: Originally posted by csa_deadon

Now having said that; I am running out of socks. Can someone loan me a pair?

Maybe we can help each other out, I have an extra pair of sox, but I am out of underwear...:moon:

DREWCOLOUS,
Not my intention to call you on the carpet. You my friend did nothing wrong. Did I mention you did nothing wrong?.

Crap happens and you clean up the mess and move on. It is turning out to be one of those East Coast differances us West Coasters have no clue about.
If I would not have been at the Weenies roast, how long would it have been before I would have found out, let alone told about it. That's the part I was pissed about not the damage.
Drew has stepped up and made an offer to help clean up the mess, way more than anyone else. For that alone, drew is an ok Guy in my book.

As I mentioned in the other thread, I can fix the buggy up for you no problem. Whatever needs to be done I can do and I am willing to do. I have repaired several Apexx buggies already and am fully aware of their issues. I also have rear axle bolts in stock or if they are something different than the stock Apexx, I can get them from my supplier.

Worst case scenario, we can contact Apexx directly and even order in a replacement rear axle. This would probably be a little more expensive way to get the issue resolved, but it would also be the easiest.

If it was an Ivanpah buggy, it would all be covered under warranty. (Had to throw that out ya know).

Anyways, we should stop pointing fingers and ruining friendships and instead concentrate on just getting the buggy fixed. It isn't that big of a deal.

i was told about this thread, #@%$#! gets damaged. repair and move on. if you use someone else's gear "you break it you buy it"

as the apexx, it was running motorcycle rims at NABX, stock rear axle cones. ruudje was there when it happened and Kent (AWOC) was kind enough to let ruudje use his shop to repair it

a few months later the owner of the apexx removed the factory cones and had machined inserts put in.

i dont know what was damaged or what, but if its a bolt damage I would feel sorry for all the freestyle jumpers out there.

:saint:"It is just a piece of metal....." :saint:

You can't break it so bad I can't fix it,unless you make it disappear.
Maybe I should drive a box truck w/ a welding machine and torch rig to these events.....Hmmm.
And some stainless pipe.....

On second thought, that might not be a good idea ,you guys wouldn't let me buggy.
All I would be doin' is making and modding stuff all day. LOL

LOL Weldingod....for sure!

Now that's why I come to this Forum. For a moment there I almost forgot.

I just got a u2u from mougl and I have asked him to drop it and I will do the same, the old saying about a dead horse.
I will fix the buggy and if drew wants to help out, I will gladly let him. as for the other guy, you be the judge.
I did learn one sad lesson from all of this, I will never trust a car salesman again.

I guess the truth be told, if you do a small, inexpensive type of damage to my stuff, you will be happy to fix it or repair it. But anything big or a bit pricey, its on me. I have the damage wavers made up now so this wont happen again. If it does, I get both arms and the blob that sits on your shoulders to use as target practice with rocks of all sizes.

I ask all of you to move on with the original thought of this thread, thank you all very much.

Never trust a car salesman again? Sales is what I did, NOT who I am. That's crossing the line.

I remeber before you even took the buggy off the truck you made a snarky comment that others hears as well to the effect of I had better buy the buggy or you were going to attack my rep on PKF. Dang Jeff, never thought you were serious...

Quote: Originally posted by mougl

Never trust a car salesman again? Sales is what I did, NOT who I am. That's crossing the line. I remeber before you even took the buggy off the truck you made a snarky comment that others hears as well to the effect of I had better buy the buggy or you were going to attack my rep on PKF. Dang Jeff, never thought you were serious...

Some body tell this guy its over, hes off the hook for any and everything.
Life is way to short to mess with stuff as unimportant as this. Sitting here at the hospital in San Antonio and this piss ant is worried about his pride. You are not worth my time, I have more important things to do.

Wow...

Jeff, between the threats you have made to me in U2U and the name calling on the thread.....just wow.

Wow is right....

Don't think it had to go like that, is is a simple fix and I feel it could have been handled much differently but what is done is done. It is just a buggy and from what I hear, a well used one.

Don't know what to say other than sorry to both of ya and good luck with whatever happens.

kami and rip , I didn't realize I missed you guys untill you chimed in! My mechanical curiosity is chomping at the bit. Was it the bolts that bent or the big long across the back axel. I guess the biggest beef in the above is that the owner was not immediatly sought out and notified that his bug took a dive into a ditch and got a bit tweeked (bent bolts). That would have resulted in a short conversation about "where can we find some bolts", if the long cross axel got bent no doubt the conversation would have been a bit longer and more uncomfortable. There have been times I turned down borrowing things that I could not afford to buy/replace , motorcycles come to mind.

The "car salesman" crack was a cheap shot and not something you say if everyone is going to "drop it". That was just gas on the fire.

Yo... Scott.... did I say Thank you for fixing my kite? hehehe You know i did! But it is still nice to know that some still go by the old saying "if I break it I've bought it". Keep up the good work!
Sorry i missed JIBE..

I'll never borrow somebody's gear again..... This thread isn't good for anybody and it really should be shut down. It's too bad that we have to witness adults acting like children, especially on a public forum such as this.

Jeff...I'd like to remind you of what's in your own signature...."Big kids are nothing more than little kids that know how to act in public...er.. so I have been told."

I really hope something good comes from this and it all get's resolved.

WOW...

If this is the kind of mentality among friends I am sure I do not need any more friends. I spent some time listening to what happened to the buggy when I was there but I wasn't there to see it happen so I truly have NO first hand knowledge. I know that if "I borrow something" I will return it in the same or better condition than when I borrowed it or get it fixed. I also remember being disappointed when I heard about this, because I really wanted to try that land board Jeff had but I knew not even to ask so I left to go fly for the first time on a beach.

This is sad when friends can't step outside of the tangible illusion of a THING and look toward the intangible soul of friendships and fellowships. Personally I could give a rat's chard ass about the world we live in because it is only here for a moment, I would rather a dry morsel and calmness there in my home, than a house full of sacrifices with this kind of strife.

True story: I remember when my wife burned the kitchen in our home. She did a great job of bringing it to cinders too. LOL Bless her heart, all she could think about till I got there was that I would be terribly mad at her... All I could think is I could have lost my friend and wife. I held her in my arms till the fire dept left the scene and kept reminding her we can replace things but people are not replaceable.

Point is, what's anything in this world worth more than a friendship? If so, please do not consider me a friend because I truly am your worst enemy.

When I was a child I acted like a child, when I became a man, I put away those childish ways.

cheers in a sad world

edit: If you borrow something and break it, Fix it. It's the honorable thing to do is it not? And for the love of life, inspect the thing before you borrow it to make sure you're not borrowing something that is already broken.

Looks like, You break it you by it, and Lender beware, is the 2nd and 3rd choice you all have made with Jeff is an (YOU FILL IN THE BAD WORD) as number 1. I agree.

After my wife gave me some tough love, I have to ask for forgiveness in diverting this thread. As important of a topic as it is, it ends up at the end of the day as crap. Buggies and kites, lines and anything else I lend out, let you demo, borrow till you get your part, test drive, or pass around the world, is nothing more than stuff I have acquired in a sport many of us want to enjoy more and more.

Please remove my actions from your thoughts on this subject and be honest with yourself on what you think.
I lend stuff, give stuff away, sell it for cost, take trade-ins, replaced kites that lost the war with barb wire fences for free, upgraded orders to make things right, freely replace parts past the warranty period, and as my wife says "make you a sweet deal while I loose my shorts", why? Because I like to share the things I enjoy. Not enjoying things lately.

I ask flyguy0101 and the rest of you to forgive me for taking over this thread, I now return it to you all.

Alas-Order has been restored to DISNEYLAND.

And with that final thought... this thread is now closed.