Quote: Originally posted by BeamerBob

Quote: Originally posted by soliver   BB, I know you've tried every iteration of the Montana, I'd love your take on their stability and their price... Do you feel a 12.5m would be best suited for the wind I described? I started in with the M III. It seemed like a great kite with my lack of experience. We barely had it and then upgraded to a IV. This model had major changes in the design and still a great kite IIRC. I had issues with my V with the tips wanting to tuck if the winds were lighter, but that went away when you got moving and the kite had good pressure on it. From then on, each one seemed perfect, but the next model found ways to improve. I learned for the most part to anticipate a forward tuck and could prevent most foldovers by pulling in the bar quickly. I always considered this an attribute of flying a high performance kite. Now with the VIII, I haven't had it do it even once. I love this new model for sure. I imagine you don't save much money going older than a V. I'd just watch for used ones and don't be too particular about which version you get. Get the newest one you can afford of course. I'm happy to hear others enjoying and desiring the Montana as much as I have for years. Conventional wisdom seems to finally be catching up with the Montana being recognized as the top shelf kite it has been for years now.

Thanks Bob... How about wind range? ATL wind is typically light... I find myself only going out when I see a forecasted 10mph, which usually turns out to be 6-7mph... I'd say a good day holds between 8-12mph wind.... What size Montana or other DP Foil would you recommend?... I'm thinking the 12.5m? Keep in mind I'm most frequently on either a 5.5m or 8.6m RII.

Those are too light for a 9-10m. The 12.5 should be just right, but I imagine there are lots fewer on the used market. In 6-7 you really could use a 14-15m though. When we lived back east, we always had the 9.5 size and here we used a 7 and 9m. Now that there is an 8, it covers most of my range, and the 10 is too much for the lakebed surface in most winds I would drive down for.

Soliver, too bad the peaks haven't been out longer to be able to get a deal. I think the larger size would be ideal in our winds and they look like pack and unpack would be a breeze. I've got my sights on one in the future.

Freaky double post. Disregard.

Quote:

I recently went through a dust devil I couldn't see and the lei went 180 degrees around behind me and sat down on the ground. I must say no kite could've stayed flying in those conditions but the lei was earily retaining it's shape if the wind ever stabilized. No luffs and no nose foldovers. Much like the new Montana lol.

That has got to be one of the strangest double posts. For a moment I thought I was having deja vu.

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I've often been interested in trying NPWs but we're talking depower.

They are, Jim, but not as we know it :D

Bladerunner:
Man, that arc was AMAZING this weekend… I would say it fits my style as well. I wish I could always count on wind like that. But alas…

Snake:
F-arc is an interesting idea.. though I don’t think I’m enough of an arc-expert to get the damn thing off the ground

Soliver:
I’m not at all offended.. hijack away! I like seeing more opinions!
I’m in a very similar boat. I just don’t have a ton of time to fly so speed is of the essence. I’m very interested in stability too. I considered going LEI too, but I just don’t think that’s the right decision for me.. Regarding my Montana, I really like it, but in my winds it’s defiantly wanted to curl over or collapse.. Some of that is pilot error (trying to up loop instead of down loop for example), but some of it is that my winds just like to die down to nothing, causing the kite to stall.. Once it starts dropping, the air comes out and it collapses. The nice thing about it though, is that quite often it takes no time to relaunch at all. More often than not you can simply pull the center line and off you go again.

B-Roc:
The peak looks really neat. I have never seen that one before! Flysurfer comes up with some cool #@%$#!. I just don’t understand why they’re 3x more expensive than the other companies.. 3k+ for a new kite seems pretty crazy



For me the big thing is not so much the gusts, but the lulls that really suck. I can generally deal with getting hit with a gust (or so far I’ve been able to). I hate it when you go from flying to no wind, and the kite backs down and collapses.

Another thing that really sucks is when the wind speeds are all over the place. I find that the damn kites want to overfly in these conditions.. More than once I’ve had the venom up and i get a sustained gust causing it to overfly, followed by no wind, causing it to float down, making me run backwards to try to catch it before it twists.. A few times this whole process was concluded with another gust coming through causing the thing to want to open up in the middle of the power zone. Luckily I’m pretty quick to pull the safety when I see that coming.

As for me, I really don’t know what I’m gonna do. I should have funds for a new kite coming up soon. I’m not sure if I should go with the 14m Montana 8, or maybe use that money to buy a used speed3? I was really digging the matrixx, but it seems like they’re out of stock everywhere.

I think BB has helped convince me I don’t want to get a big arc, so the question for me is, what light wind foil should I get…

Glad you are having some good sessions with the Venom. I really liked that kite.

Quote: Originally posted by soliver

Thanks IMK, I've often been interested in trying NPWs but we're talking depower.

Soliver, no worries, it's interesting that you say that. Now that I have my NASA Star 2 kites I don't bother with depower foils anymore for inland flying when the conditions are gusty and variable with lots of lulls. Having said that, LEIs have me intrigued.

Just to clarify something, flysurfers are not as expensive as you think. The 21m speed 3 deluxe is $2999. That is the deluxe edition fabric and the largest size. Peter Lynn arcs in larger sizes are over $2k new, and not made out of high end fabric like the deluxe speeds. Also, both versions of the peak are under a grand. I think the 9m is something like $889 brand new from flysurfer US.

all my decisions are dictated by price but i want to fly them all anyway and so do you...so doesnt matter whats next cause your gonna buy the other anyway

I guess Arcs will be last

We sell the Peak 6m for $849 and the 9m $949 shipped. http://www.hardwaterkiter.com/flysurfer-click.html To the best of my knowledge the distributor is priced the same for their retail sales.

Bang for the buck you cannot beat the Peak. It is the only kite that we've found that rivals the Arcs in gust handling, dirty wind flying and depow. I've been working on a review but after a season of sending our demos out and riding them myself there's a ton of feedback to share. The review is too long ATM. Gotta thin it out.:D

Been working on a video as well but even edited all to hell its 7 minutes long. I'm not subjecting people to 7minutes of kite footage.

Here's a shortish version. I have no talent for posting vid to threads here so please check the link. :D


http://youtu.be/ziI6hs1co48

Sweet video. You're really lucky to have a place like that to kite!

correction
i guess peaks will be last...gotta have one of them too

Those Peaks are pretty sweet looking. I dig the black and pink!

Quote: Originally posted by Feyd

Here's a shortish version. http://youtu.be/ziI6hs1co48

based on the video I would say a 6 metre peak is not equivalent to a 10-meter oil foil, which I believe is what Flysurfer originally stated. It seems to me that their 6 metre peak is roughly equivalent to a 3 meter apex or 4 meter depower. What would you say?

Nope, the 6m is easily the equivalent to AT LEAST a 9m depower foil. 9m with 5m extensions is much like 15m Speed 3 in pull. But launches easier IMO.

Depower range easily gets it into the same depow as a 3m.

This is the only kite that Molly and I can ride in the same conditions. There's a lot of over lap with the 9m.

On another note, Has anybody noticed how many post Bladerunner and Bob have? Holy cats.:o

Feyd, do the Peaks have progressive depower or is more on/off (i.e. not much of a linear change between max and min power)?

Quote: Originally posted by Feyd

On another note, Has anybody noticed how many post Bladerunner and Bob have? Holy cats.:o

I don't have much of a social life. It amazes me that Bob can be so helpful and raise a family at the same time.

Very progressive. Bar feedback is very good and you can really see how depowed she is by the shape.

That was my 1900th post. :P

Ha! It's just 7 years of 3-4 posts a day. I check in often and it's odd to not find something to ask about or comment on.

Quote: Originally posted by Feyd

Very progressive. Bar feedback is very good and you can really see how depowed she is by the shape. That was my 1900th post. :P

1900 posts that are 10 times more valuable than any info I can pass on. That makes you a far more valuable contributor than I will ever be !

I would agree that I don't miss a Feyd post! Highly concentrated wisdom. I usually just take the size he is talking about and go down one size and what he says probably applies to fast buggying on Ivanpah.

Wow... Apparently I just broke 1700... Anywho...

Feyd, what's the effective low end of the 9m?...

Crap... Now I want one

Edit: I'm just looking at the data on the FS website saying the 6m's range is 3-16 knots and the 9m range is from 3-12 knots ... Wow... So Feyd... How little is TOO little wind for the 6m and how much seems like TOO much for the 9m?

Again... crap... Now I want one

Aw man...watching that Peak video got me wanting one too!

I don't know why it's so hard for me to believe that the Peak has so much power and the depower is so good...it's gotta be the single skin that is throwing me off...

So....I've been wanting to make the move to depower when I landboard in my little dirt field. Right now I'm using my Voltage 6.5m and Blade IV 6.5 for the light wind and the often lully and holey conditions. I need a kite that can perform in light winds (6-12mph) but also turn really fast...I often need to redirect quickly so I can get out of those holes (in the wind).

So what size of Peak would I need to take the place of my Blade 6.5 and 8.5? And will it turn as fast on a bar as I can get the blades to turn on handles?

OBTW...more peak videos please

Oh...any demos?

How does the Peak stay at the side of the window at the end of the vid? It looks like i'ts just hooked to the ground stake via the chicken loop...which can't be right?

I like how it looks like a predatory alien jelly fish.

Quote: Originally posted by John Holgate

How does the Peak stay at the side of the window at the end of the vid? It looks like i'ts just hooked to the ground stake via the chicken loop...which can't be right?

Same as any kite that does not auto zenith. Like NPW or LEI do that too. That is one way to solo land an LEI with an anchor point.