All kites are good kites...particularly the ones I've never flown
People are after different qualities in a kite..and what's good for me may not be what someone else is after or vise versa...now Wind, we know that has been the case w/ me and you..you don't like how my kites are set up and if it was yours you would change it immediately... I like your kites more than my own but say the bar pressure is non existent and have trouble figuring them out....now for the peek, I've seen guys flying them doing things in a bug when I've been sidelined for it being too gusty and other times too litle wind...honestly wanted one during these times then I could speak from experience not from just observing
Now For the Bedsheets
No question in my mind that's the way to go ona skateboard..I landboarded on nasty gusty off shores w/ short lines at WW..all my fb and dp stuff would have been in the Atlantic if I put it up...w/ the NASSA I was riding
Now I'd rather be fb in a bug...and dp on a landboard this I know...but snow, that peek makes total sense to me even w/ that awful sound it makes

This is excellent stuff. There should be admission charged for this thread.

Can't decide about cracking another porter and to keep going

I'm good for one more. Just finished a couple Sam Adams Boston lager. It may not be considered craft beer but I think it's good stuff.

Yea your 1hr back and several behind me right now

Nope same time. indy is eastern

Abayak are saying u are a peak fan. Scandelous.,,,nooooo wayy . come on dude ure a hardcore kinda guy a real kiter u need something like a speed or montana or frenzy to get the blood flowing. Do i have to take u out and put u on a proper kite too. U knw i will.:D

I'm back and sober...I can't be a peak fan till I fly one, I will get around to that same as a speed...what I do know is what I watched which was impressive..and also that they pak down small, won't catch and hold snow, won't blow out a cell, and can dump the power...all good things for the snow
They are kinda ugly, not as bad as a Tensor :D but ugly none the less...and they make a sound as inviting as a bull sea lion...but hey, even that can be used to an advantage
I got a lot of proper kites...but, they could all be replaced w/ a 3 kite Peek quiver
That won't happen but technically it could...these inland guys seem to like them for the on and off winds they get...sure I like to tease them and call them pussies and stuff...but I take them for their word and have to fig they know what's best for them
I so like that peekavitis term...but I don't think they are serving up kool-aid

Quote: Originally posted by windrider1

Fortunalely there is a cure for these poor fellows. someone just needs t take them out to a field and put a proper 4 line kite in their hands a good stable kite and boom ! thy will be instantly cured.:wee:

Well dang, maybe you can teach me to fly a kite. Apparently we've been doing it all wrong!:o

Winderider is the definition of "anti-fanboy". :D

But you have to admire his willingness to comment on what snowkiters need or don't need in spite of the fact that he doesn't ride snow. Love him or hate him he brings good entertainment value to a thread!

ABKayak nails it tho. All kites are good kites.

feyd I don't knw it might be difficult to teach an old guy new tricks, :frog: but anything is possible. Well its snowing outside. so time to do some kiting. abayak ure banned from the mainland if u show up with a peak.

Quote: Originally posted by Feyd

Quote: Originally posted by windrider1   Fortunalely there is a cure for these poor fellows. someone just needs t take them out to a field and put a proper 4 line kite in their hands a good stable kite and boom ! thy will be instantly cured.:wee: Well dang, maybe you can teach me to fly a kite. Apparently we've been doing it all wrong!:o Winderider is the definition of "anti-fanboy". :D But you have to admire his willingness to comment on what snowkiters need or don't need in spite of the fact that he doesn't ride snow. Love him or hate him he brings good entertainment value to a thread! ABKayak nails it tho. All kites are good kites.

Good read. I like beer and Peaks!

Perhaps it's not the sound of the Peak in full depower that bothers you.
Perhaps it's that the sound is telling everyone else that you can't handle the power...

Heavy bar pressure.
Ever fly a fixed bridle ???

Everyone has different tastes yet we can all fly together.
Wear your earplugs when I'm around! It ain't always pretty, but I'm still upright after the gust rolls through...

Wow, this thread took some interesting turns for sure. :-D
A specific question for the Peakists: When fully depowering the 12m Peak2, how much does it power down to? My 6m Peak 1 has almost no pull at all when depowered, is it the same with the 12m Pk2?

I would think there are two scenarios. First, on the P2s there is a clam cleat adjustment not on the P1s that you may not be familiar with, but probably are from other DP kites where they are common. If you sheet in the clam cleat all the way and let the bar out all the way a huge amount of power can be scrubbed. I've had to do that when the wind has increased dramatically since launch and I now find myself in a potentially dangerous overpowered situation. The kite doesn't fly all that well in that setting but you won't get dragged into anything or lofted unless the wind is really strong (over 25-30 knots).

Second, if you release the chicken loop safety mechanism the kite will flag out on a single rear line assuming no tangles or too many line twists. Here the kite is quite depowered and will flop around on the ground or just off the ground even in winds as strong as just described.

One of the drawbacks to the 12m P2 in these settings is the potential for the kite and bridles to get a bit convoluted. This is rarely a problem in more normal winds, but at least in my hands I often end up with some things to sort out if I have to bring down the 12m in what becomes way to much wind. Likely a single skin problem as there is just so little structure to the kite unpowered but there sure is a lot of ripstop and bridle to contend with.

I hope this answers your question.

Depower on Peak 2 models is as good as the Peak 1 but can be even more due to the addition of the trim system.

Quote:

Depower on Peak 2 models is as good as the Peak 1 but can be even more due to the addition of the trim system.

Just the answer I was hoping for! Someone said earlier in the thread my top priority should be to improve wind range, and after this weekend I definitely agree...
Again, I had great snow conditions, but not enough wind. The 6m Pk1 would fly fine, but not enough to get moving.
I'm still interested in the Access (for more comfortable cruising) but having good low wind performance seems more important.

So Peak 2 it is!

After reading all the reviews I expect to run into some tuning issues, but it seems most people have been able to sort everything out with some minor tweaks.
I'm only about 165 lbs and usually ride on packed snow, should I go straight for the 12m or would that be overkill?

You're roughly in the weight range that most of the factory wind ranges are based on. The jump in power from the 6 to the 12 is considerable. If you had on a firm surface and ride skis in 3-4kts, the 12 is an easy way to do it.

However the bar pressure on the 12 is higher than your 6m. The ability to sheet in and lock the bar in place with the stopper will help off set some of this. It just takes some getting used to.

Feyd, your input on the Peaks is really invaluable, thanks for taking the time.
Would a 9m be more sensible? I get that there is some significant overlap in wind range between the 6m and the 9m, but I'm worried that the 12m will be too much for me to handle.

(Sorry for keeping the questions coming, just want to make sure I'm making the right choice since these things are rather costly...)

No worries. Drinking coffee and watching the moon set, just chilling out before today's adventures. :D

With the broad wind ranges available on the Peaks there is a fair amount of overlap. When it was just 9 and 6m those two sizes covered about anything most people would be in. At 200lb the 9m is about as close to a 1kite quiver as I've ever seen for me. Adding line extensions (5m) enhances the lower end performance a good amount and puts it almost within usable range of the 12 Peak.

If you arent flying in crazy low winds and want more versatility, the 9m with a set of line extensions will add considerable low wind performance to your quiver. One of our students was out this weekend on his 6m with extensions and was able to ride. He weighs in at 210lbs and was riding the 6m in the same conditions smaller riders were riding 12m Speed 4s. Winds were never more than 9kts. Surface was firm with light powder, about 50mm. Was he lit? No. But he was riding, had power and was having fun.

But only after the line extensions were put on.

If you are concerned about to big a jump, maybe the 9m is the better option. For us over here its hard to say without seeing what you're riding over there. Here, we only take the 12m out when there is little or no wind in the forecast. Today for example, we have lessons and I will be putting our students in the 12m. Winds are supposed to be 3kts. As a school the 12m gets our students out in conditions suited to kites like our 17m R1 demo.

But without the learning curve or risk.

In the end it comes down to you. You know better than anyone what you need. My instincts say 9m and add extensions for lighter wind days.

Fwiw, the 9m performs in light winds like a UL 12m traditional foil. The 12m is more or less equal to 15m.lmo

I need to add the extensions to my 9. I've got 3m extensions that are for depower and factory made, and I have 5m lines made from less thick fb line that I made. I trust my loops but not sure on line strength.

Not sure which to try first but am inclined to try the 3m extensions first.

9m Pk2 ordered! \o/

Quote: Originally posted by Coldsnap

9m Pk2 ordered! \o/

Way to go coldsnap! I think you will be pleased. I weigh around 100 kg which is what had me biased to the 12m, but I suspect that the 9m (with extensions as Chris suggested) is a great call! I bought all four of my peaks from him and trust him implicitly.

I also have the 5m extensions and have used them with the 12m (no need on the others since I can size up by kite). If I can't get a session in with my 12m P2 with extensions then there just isn't any wind at all. They do make a difference in pull strength at a cost of making turning more sluggish.

When you get the 9m Peak-2 you will see that the way the brake lines are secured to the bar has them coming out the narrow way. I would suggest undoing the knots of the brake pigtails and threading them through the other way, effectively making the brake lines farther apart. This will make the kite more responsive to turning input. It will be important if and when you use the extensions, but also make the 9m turn more like the 6m you already have. I run my 4m narrow, my 6m wide (same narrow bar), my 9m wide, and my 12 wide (same wider bar).

Lycka till!

Ah man. I love watching kites being purchased!

The Peak 2 has arrived! Unfortunately the snow is now gone here, so I had to try it static. (Skiing trip in 2 weeks, can't wait!!) Took the 6m Pk1 out for a spin first, in about 5 kts, then switched to the 9m Pk2. I expected it to behave very differently from the Pk1, but I found them to be very similar. Of course the Pk2 has a lot more power, and noticably more lift, but in general it was a lot like flying the Pk1. At first I had a LOT of tip tucking going on, especially on one side, but after half an hour or so I tried shortening the B mixer a few centimeters as suggested by Feyd and others, and it seems a little better now. I still get occasional tip tuck though.

I initially did not like the bar, it feels too clunky and heavy compared to the Pk1 bar. On the other hand, the Pk1 bar is a bit too short. Hopefully it will grow on me.

I was absolutely amazed by the small pack size, I don't know what sorcery this is but the 9m Pk2 actually packs down slightly SMALLER than the 6m Pk1! In the not-very-large bag that came with my old Naish LEI I managed to fit both the 9m Pk2, the 6m Pk1, harness, helmet, water bottle and snacks! Happy days are here again! :-D

You made my day by saying you like the p1 bar better so far.

I like to jab those fancy bar p2 guys:P

Quote: Originally posted by Coldsnap

The Peak 2 has arrived! Unfortunately the snow is now gone here, so I had to try it static. (Skiing trip in 2 weeks, can't wait!!) Took the 6m Pk1 out for a spin first, in about 5 kts, then switched to the 9m Pk2. I expected it to behave very differently from the Pk1, but I found them to be very similar. Of course the Pk2 has a lot more power, and noticably more lift, but in general it was a lot like flying the Pk1. At first I had a LOT of tip tucking going on, especially on one side, but after half an hour or so I tried shortening the B mixer a few centimeters as suggested by Feyd and others, and it seems a little better now. I still get occasional tip tuck though. I initially did not like the bar, it feels too clunky and heavy compared to the Pk1 bar. On the other hand, the Pk1 bar is a bit too short. Hopefully it will grow on me. I was absolutely amazed by the small pack size, I don't know what sorcery this is but the 9m Pk2 actually packs down slightly SMALLER than the 6m Pk1! In the not-very-large bag that came with my old Naish LEI I managed to fit both the 9m Pk2, the 6m Pk1, harness, helmet, water bottle and snacks! Happy days are here again! :-D

One thing that has helped me alleviate tip tuck has been to play with the adjustments of the length of the brake lines under the foam tubes up by the bar Sean loves to hate on. For what its worth, of the four Peak-2's I own I seem to get tip tuck most with the 9m too. Careful flying and manipulation of the bar tends to eliminate the issue once the kite is up in the air.

I hope you change the positioning of the brake lines from coming out on the inside of the bar end pieces to coming out the wide way. It will make the kite even more responsive to turning input. I really like my 9m set up wide like this. BTW, the 4m and 6m Peak-2s come with the same narrow bar. The 4 is set up for the brake lines to come out narrow and the 6 wide. The 9m and 12m P2s both come with the same wider bar. Stock, the 9m is set up narrow and the 12m wide. I just like the 9 wide for increased turning response. I don't set up my 4m wide as it has plenty enough spunk as it is! As a high wind kite, fast movement and quick turning comes in spades and doesn't need any spunking up thank you very much.

The 9m P2 is a great work horse and I think you are really going to like it. If you lay your 6m P1 on top of your 9m P2 you will be able to see how the dimensions (and resultant AR) were changed between generations.

Don't listen to what Sean says, the P2 bar is a big improvement over the P1 bar, both in the center hole and the addition of the clam cleat. That clam cleat may save you someday when you need to choke down the 9m in what becomes dangerously high winds after you've got it up in the air. The funny thing is Sean is always going on and on about his gigantic Popeye forearms and grip-of-steel from all his free bar holding street kiting. I'd think a he-man like that could hoist a Peak-2 bar no problem, especially considering the kite will pretty much hold it up in the air for him once he manages to launch. :evil: :moon:

All true Steve. I would love to have a p2 4 and 12 meter even with that heavy fancy bar.

I need to eat more spinach, my popeye arms have let me down a couple times lately.

Snow season is over here now, I got a few sessions in with both the Pk1 6M and the Pk2 9M. Already planning next season! Some thoughts about the kites:

The Pk1 6M is still by far the most amazing kite I have ever flown. Turns like a stunt kite, depowers to almost nothing, packs a LOT of power for its size. People with way larger kites kept coming up to ask me how in blazes I could go so fast on a kite that small. Best of all, the kite is never scary, even when overpowered. You can do all sorts of mistakes and still feel safe and in control.

The Pk2 9M is a great kite as well, but I was not as impressed as I was with the Pk1, mostly for two reasons:

Just like the Pk1, it turns fast and pulls like it was twice the size when powered. However, it's extremely finicky and I feel I'm going to need many more hours to really get to know all its quirks. I think Flysurfer is walking a very fine line here, the canopy design feels like it's almost on the verge of not working at all. Unless fully powered up, the tips kept folding up on me all the time. Usually just the tips, but sometimes 1/3 of the kite would collapse and I couldn't really figure out why. That's not really entry-level to me, so a little disappointed there.

The depower is still enormous, but it can't be killed completely like the 6m Pk1. As the wind picked up I wanted to switch down to the 6m, but I really underestimated the 9m and had a hard time landing it and keeping it on the ground. After setting it down it would quickly drift into the center, power up and fly off again. I'm never taking this thing out again without a proper way to anchor it.

Lots of good experiences as well: It packs down extremely small, setup/packing is crazy fast (assuming you get the damn thing to stay grounded), and it really flies (and pulls) in almost no wind at all. I was sceptical about the larger and heavier bar at first, but it wasn't a problem at all. It really is a great bar.

Just like the 6m Pk1, the Pk2 can turn like a stunt kite if you pull the balls on the steering lines. You have to watch out for tip collapse though.

All in all, I think the Pk2 9M is a great kite that does what it sets out to do. It just isn't nearly as friendly as the 6M Pk1. It would be interesting to try a 9M Pk1 to see if the extra trouble comes from the change in size or the change in design.

hey coldsnap, I have the p1 9m. It flies very similarly to the p1 6m except I'm normally flying it in less wind so it does require more steering input but it flies and acts the same. The p1 6m has a snappier feel, but I think that's mainly due to flying it in higher wind.

There might be some things you could do to help with tip tuck. Others will weigh in but you might try to shorten your rear lines by attaching the them a little further down the leaders by way of knot in leader and larks head to it. You can also add pig tail to lengthen the front lines. not sure exactly how to do this. Either option will reduce the amount of depower you have available to you a little. Did you have it trimmed at all? First thing to try is let the trim all the way out if you haven't already.

Again, this is second hand knowledge on the p2 and others with the kite will hopefully chime in. I'm more of a P1 fanatic