Nw you make a point. Someone said they never had a bridal streTch. But this is what happens when a kite goes out of tune correct.?

btw I should mention I think these threads are great!.....best free entertainment I can get :bouncy:

let the opinions run wild!

Yeah bridles definitely stretch.

especially when a kite is new or after you get yarded really bad.

it seems like they hold a tune for quite awhile after everything has bedded in properly though.

my speed 2 needed the mixer adjusted after having the mixer lines replaced though. other then that things seem to be holding there place well.

most people see the mixer on a kite and thing omg that looks complicated. and yes it is when you compare it to an SLE bridal. I used to be afraid of touching it until I read through a manual and did it once and then it got easier and easier after that. I can now do on the spot mixer tests and adjustments without even really thinking about it.

Quote:

Originally posted by nwsurfwakeskateIf u aren't going to bother keeping your kite tuned then you are probably better off flying ARC's or LEI's

This is very true!

For me bridle stretch wasn't as much an issue as being lazy about checking + maintaining all my lines / pulleys.

A part of what I am attracted to in arcs is the simplicity .

Quote:

Originally posted by snobdr But dylanj i want to hear why yours is better! Have you had experences with both?

flown a couple... dont like them... thanks for asking... :moon:

more than anything i just wanted to make the point that for you to tell me flat out that one is better than the other is snobbish and rude

but... SNOBdr, i wouldnt expect anything less from you.

dylanj what didnt you like? what did you fly?

Ive converted a fixed to a depower so know all about mixers. In general theres a bit more upkeep on foils then a LEI. Gives us an idea how intensive tuning i kite is? time involved.

interesting read but i think ill still stick to my arcs.

ps you dont make many friends do you snob.

I guess not on here LOL.
Carl you have any experences on LEIs?
Your an arc man, what do u like about them?

I wonder how the new Peter Lynn Chargers will fall into this mix. They are said to have the turning speed of a C kite or LEI. From Peter Lynn...

"Another group of riders the Charger is targeting are all those riders that prefer a really fast turning speed and great power. The Charger in this respect performs similar to an LEI C-shape and adds features such as the unique Twinskin stability and Auto-zenith as well as a very smooth flying behaviour and comfortable feel while riding. "

Acampbell or carl. Say im ripping along on the water,nicely powered, i pull some shifty move and wipe out. With the auto-zenith how likely am i to get lofted or dragged downwind. Is the kites trip to the zenith slow or does it run right up there?

In the buggy I am of course not as aggressive as someone flying on the water is going to be, but if I was sining the kite and say, I wiped out on the upstroke and let go of the bar, it would not race to the top enough to loft me and would be largely de-powered anyway. Let a water kiter say what would happen if you wiped out setting up for a kiteloop. Wish AJ was on this thread.

The fastest I've pushed my Synergy 15 is 30-something and I feel I might get a draft under my butt but not really lofted if I let go. I've had the Phantom 18m up to 27 mph and felt the same.

It's pretty slow in my experience but it does depend on the wind and where the kite was and what it was doing (speed, sheeting etc) at the time. I dare say there are occasions that the Autozenith won't kick in - like if it's screaming straight down to the deck when you lose it...but if that's the case then you've got bigger concerns. If you're well powered then you'll likely never need to put an Arc in these "really shouldn't be here" positions in the window.

The main thing it that it doesn't turn itself in the direction it's going, it creeps up the edge, facing into the wind as it goes. I'm sure that's why it doesn't overspeed on it's way.

2 more ¢

http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=10208

this might answer your question

Carl, I was going to post that video as an example of AutoZenith kicking in but I didn't wanna step on any toes... Glad to see YOU posted it.

Carl, how was the x-ray?

nothing broken just soft tissue damage. wont stop me kiting though. just hurts like hell when i flex my wrist back.

oh yeah, the kite was on an upwards loop when i was getting dragged.

My problem with foils that I haven't discussed yet:

before I begin, I owned the following ones:

FS Psycho 2 10
HQ Montana 2 7
FS Pulse 10
FS Pulse 2 12
FS Speed 17
FS Psycho 4 12
PL Venom 10

Problem # 1 -Self Launching and Self Landing
are not possible where I fly as the beach has no sand. Since I carry all my gear on a bike, I can't carry any sand bags.
Self Launching P4 in 25 knots scared that #@%$#! out of me. Self landing was nearly impossible with 5 th line as the kite became a one liner 20 meters up in the air. On other hand I landed 12 meter Cabrinha Omega in same 25 knots by myself without a problem. Bottom line, I think it easier to self lunch foil but it is easier to self land an inflatable (you can always hook up a bow kite to a pole, and kite will sit on ground)

Problem # 2
Countless times I had bowties after crashing a kite after wipe outed tricks. Bowtie with FS and PL you are pretty much done. Bowties were in all cases due to waves! It was nice swimming. Never had any invertions on LEI's. EVER! Also relunching a peter lynn in waves lead to numerous bow ties.

Of course LEI's have problems too, leaking bladders and tiring pumping, but after considering the pluses and minuses I cam to conclusion that for WATER use, LEI's are better after all.

If I was rich, I would of still kept all my foils for winter!


REGARDING SILVER ARROW:
Me and my friend compared one to Switchblade 16. We were equipped with 136 board, spleene 59 and a windmeter.
Following were the estimated results from a number of sessions.
Make your own conclusion

Me 150 Lbs
FS Speed 17 & door 59 6-G7 knots, choppy water. Going back and forth barely.
FS SPeed 17 & door 59 8 knots - well powered, upwinding like crazy
Switchblade 16 & door 8 knots - well powered, staying upwind.
FS P4 12 & door 59 9 knots - staying upwind
FS Speed 17 & 136 9-10 knots - going upwind 10 kilometers
Switchblade 16 & 140x42 Airush board 180 pounds friend - going upwind 5 kilometers at same time as I was 10 km out.
FS Speed 17 1.5 Silver arrow. Going downwind in 10 knots! WTF?

Quote:

Originally posted by bloah REGARDING SILVER ARROW: Me and my friend compared one to Switchblade 16. We were equipped with 136 board, spleene 59 and a windmeter. Following were the estimated results from a number of sessions. Make your own conclusion Me 150 Lbs FS Speed 17 & door 59 6-G7 knots, choppy water. Going back and forth barely. FS SPeed 17 & door 59 8 knots - well powered, upwinding like crazy Switchblade 16 & door 8 knots - well powered, staying upwind. FS P4 12 & door 59 9 knots - staying upwind FS Speed 17 & 136 9-10 knots - going upwind 10 kilometers Switchblade 16 & 140x42 Airush board 180 pounds friend - going upwind 5 kilometers at same time as I was 10 km out. FS Speed 17 1.5 Silver arrow. Going downwind in 10 knots! WTF?

interesting....

how was the arrow tuned?

I went through about a half a dozen different mixer/fds/main line length settings before I got my P4's tuned the way I like them.

I'll admit. my P4's flew like crap when I first got them. the 10m would fly backwards with the trim strap pulled half way and the bar pulled all the way in. WTF is right, but I looked at the mixer. shortened the mains and now it flies great.

it was tuned by powerzone, then we made a mixer test 6.2.1 and it still flew like crap. Did the nickwax mode so it doesn't leak air, but still flew like crap. Restored it to original mixer, still flew like crap! By crap I mean low end on 1.5 is worse then on original speed 17. Yes it turns faster, but it doesnt pull. Yes it has more depower, but still the low end was horrible compared to stock
Dunno, maybe we did something wrong, but when we even bought originally from powerzone, it didn't had the low end compared to original, although it flew better before

strange....I have never flown a speed 1 before so I haven't experienced the difference you're talking about.

Powerzone is very good at tuning kites and tends to be a perfectionist when it comes to repairs and mods.

I always thought the 1.5 mod was supposed to extend the top end of the Speed1 and make the kite turn faster with the expense of 1 maybe 2 knots of low end. If it is done right you can probably still get moving in the same amount of light wind by working the kite a little more with the gained turning speed. Did you ever try adding line extensions?

I'm not sure what the nickwax mode is you're talking about.

You have too flown a speed 1 christian, i sold you my SA a few years ago!!
I personally didn't notice any difference in the bottom end on my 17m sa when john did the 1.5 upgrade, i was happily cruising upwind in 6 knots. However, i think it's very much to do with your light wind technique which i seem have nailed without knowing how or why, i handed my sa215m to a friend on the beach a couple of weeks ago and he could barely stand up let alone go upwind using my board (mako140) in about 9mph wind. He weighed a tiny bit more than me but really not much in it, i took the kite back and i could cruise upwind and pull off jumps no problem.
I think you have to be really light on your feet and having the correct posture is VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY important to successful light wind riding.

I thought of another good foil vs LEI analogy.

LEI is to Windows Vista as Foil is to Linux

Sure windows vista is what everyone uses. it has the most support and people who don't know what they are talking about think its great for lack of knowing what else is available. its pretty/shiny advertised everywhere but incredibly inefficient and limited. Windows users may even try linux and get frustrated with it because they don't know how to use it properly. But for the people that put in the time to truely learn how to use it, they will swear by linux as the only way to fully utilize a PC :P

Im very pleased with my 17m SA 1.5.....................my son (170lbs/2 months experience) was out today in easterly 8 to 10 kts, with our 145x48 Crazy Fly allrounder cruising up and down Folly Beach................he said he couldnt stop grinning and had the water all to himself. The depower on the SA is awesome, distinct but nit bar pressure, and very very stable throughout the whole window. It turns slow but hey its a light wind design...............Ive had ir our 2 times in 12 to 15 kts and was in complete control and AMAZEMENT!!

nickwax mod is a solution which u can get at mac, and you pretty much rub it all over your kite so it makes it water proof and doesnt leak water in and air out. After we applied twice, kite weighted a bit more and by touch felt like condom. It flew a bit better, but the bridles must be the problem

Sorry to hear that bloah.

sounds like you put in a good effort on that kite. I can understand that sometimes its just best to start clean with something new. It sounds like that's what you're doing with inflatables. hope they work out better for you.

the Silver Arrow was not mine and I had no issues with my speed 17 besides it being very slow. Sold them as LEI's just better at jumping I find, and another thing is that I fly in places where there is no beach and in offshore conditions, and LEI's are better for self rescue.

How about this analogy
Foil= bus pulls alot of weight but is slow and cumbersome
LEI= Ferrari quick powerful and handles like a dream

we could do this all day
Why not post why you like what you fly and why you didnt like the other type

Quote:

Originally posted by snobdr we could do this all day Why not post why you like what you fly and why you didnt like the other type

haha, I'm pretty sure I already did that. relax man I can tell you're getting stressed out. this is just a fun subject. nothing personal, no hard feelings.

We get light wind here and so you end up seeing lots of big kites and people on doors and surfboards. I feel like riding strapless is what people do when they don't have enough wind to jump. with foils I always have enough wind to jump. my issue is I like jumping more then anything. its why I got into kitesurfing. therefore I fly kites with maximum lift and float. I find foils have that....all the other advantages I listed earlier are just added bonuses.

all big kites fly like busses. try a 20m slingshot machine sometime and you'll know what I'm talking about. that is if you don't have a heart attack trying to pump it first ;-) good luck relaunching one of those things too.

well after reading thru all this i think you guys have convinced me.....

I've been duped.... all my experiences must be false and flying these air matresses has made me crazy and too blind to see the truth.

thats it, i'm gonna sell all my foils, quit the business, convert myself to all Blimp kites and join the crowd of negativity. i can't wait !

thanks for helping me see the light !

lol.

Stressed out? Lol

with no offense powerzone, if you are in business of selling kites, you have to fly what you sell, thats what local pbk told me ones. And I completely understand that. That is the only way to make business grow.

Also what negativity? It sounds then whenever someone starts saying things about foils, foil men start calling them pessimists and other names. I used to be like that too. As far as I am concerned foils are great kites, and so are lei. Judging but what is important to me, stability, turning speed, depower, safety, I made a decision to switch to LEI's.

There is no reason in selling your business or saying that you see a light. I understand the sarcasm. But I owe a toyota, and I know a ferrari is better? But do I need a ferrari? No i dont?
So is with LEI's they are better at certain characteristics, which I didn't needed before, so I had foils. Now I need the extra performance so I choose LEI's.

It is a fact, some kites are better in one thing and #@%$#!tier in another.

The purpose of this thread initiation by me was to show that LEI's are better overall for water. No one really challanged that. In sum I believe that performance (Stability, Depower, Turning) wise in medium to strong winds LEI's excell foils.
In low wind I believe that Silver Arrow is still the ultimate kite. Yet, it wins only a couple of knots difference.