Quote:

Originally posted by speleopower This website has really gotten bad. I'm pretty much done.

It's sad to hear that, you're one of the folks i look up to most on here.

Gosh this isn't close to being contentious ... a healthy discussion sure, but nothing like the drama that goes on at ooh I dunno say kiteforum.com check out the helmet thread there!

Quote:

Originally posted by speleopower This website has really gotten bad. I'm pretty much done. Scott

Just ignore a thread when the Trolls show up. OK, I peeked here but it's like looking at a car wreck.

I like the possibility of sharing opinions and situations in a civilized way that this forum represents, and I know for darn sure following this argument has sharpened my usage of KKs, so I'm going to drop something in here before it disappears off today's posts.

Those who think this discussion is troll-ridden and useless should head over to Yahoo news and check out the mudslinging and ubertrollish behavior mutually engaged in by birthers and liberals on any thread to do with obama, now that's futile stuff.

(and I'm uncomfortable bringing politics on here yes, but that's all I'm going to say, it seemed like too good an example to pass up, go have a look (if you are so lucky as to be unaware of it, you might want to just take my word for it) and you will see what I mean)

Anyway, enough opinion.

On to the situation:

I used kitekillers today to help me fly a kite at and well beyond the edge of my abilities, an HQ crossfire 3.2 in typhoon winds gusting to 22-23 knots at first, gusting possibly 30 knots by the end. There were tall trees 50m downwind of the beach, and I was on 27m lines. I weigh 160 pounds and I've been flying kites static for two years, so I is still a bit of a noob...

I put the kite up once without kite killers, did a little figure eight up top, and got lofted slightly so I slid the kite back and forth across the edge of the window, collapsed the kite in a lull, recovered deep in the window in a gust, got pulled into an almost superman morphing into a loft, redirected in time, and landed the kite as soon as I was back on my feet. If I had been lofted again before getting back upwind, I don't think I could have kept the kite out of the trees. As it happens, I was lucky to land the thing. It was my last successful landing of the session.

I put the kitekillers on, launched again, and felt confident I could keep the kite out of the trees, and so I played around a bit with gentle jumps and semi-loftings. But I was having to work the gusts and they were coming through fast, so I couldn't really set up for a full-on pendulum. It was obvious I was overpowered, as I was getting lofted a bit with most of the stronger gusts. Holding the kite at the edge of the window wasn't an option, the wind was too wiggly and recovering from the collapses seemed riskier with this kite than floating out a landing. When I went to a landing, the kite just got too twitchy to land on brakes about 20 degrees off the ground. I tried a few things, ending up in a pinwheel that was gaining altitude after twisting the lines too much for me to have control. So I went to the killers, not much of a yank, with the tension off the powers the twisted lines loosened enough so the kite was able to flag out on the brakes.

So after ten minutes I decided to have one last try, I knew I was already past the "I'm not going to fly this wind with this kite again" decision, but it seemed to be educational while still survivable, sort of a semi-darwin opportunity TBH, so I went to the handles again. The crossfire 3.2 is a pretty safe kite to hot-launch at the top of its wind range. It inflates slowly, so if I keep a little brake on it until it gets to the edge, it doesn't ever inflate enough to get full power. Then one pass to zenith and it gets the speed and pops alive and I'm getting a loft.

anyways, it was a short session, a few passes and the russian roulette buzz was getting a bit too loud, so I went for a landing, tried my best, just couldn't get it down, it turned into an epic, I was determined to get it down without going to the killers, i even tried landing it at the edge and letting it roll in a tangle around to downwind, but got into the deadly pinwheel again and went to the killers. As soon as it broke, the kite flagged out on brake line and gently drifted to the ground. When I got home and checked the nearest wind station I found the gusts had been hitting 55 km/h. Divide by 1.8 and I get 30 knots.

So I'll never fly that wind again with that kite. I could have always let go, but the KS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-s in this case allowed me to manage the risk of my kite getting caught in the trees, and so I was glad to have them...

So there you go, one more opinion and one more situation to add to this thread, which I still have high hopes for. Maybe the opinion I present isn't relevant to kiting, but for sure it represents a situation where people can't learn from each other.

:wee:


:frog:

Yes but did you have a helmet on? :D

Quote:

Originally posted by Kamikuza Yes but did you have a helmet on? :D

No but I was flying on soft loose sand and not trying to get air unless I was under some control...

With 500m of room downwind and the room to send it, well yes helmet and everything else, but then I'd be tempted to fly my 5m ace or something stupid like that in winds gusting 30 knots by the end of the session....:o:o:o:puzzled:

In other words, I had already been tempted to put up the ace 5 in those winds, if I had the extra safety protection maybe I would have, but would the safety protection keep me safe with 40% more angry ripstop yanking about on the end of my lines? I'm not sure.

The soft loose sand I fly on makes all the difference. On hard-pack or wet grass I would have had to be happy flying my DP power 2.5, which is actually a jumpable kite in the conditions I had today

I wish I had video.... I wasn't wearing a helmet but I only lost my balance a couple times in the gusts, and only went to my knees even then. It was the upwards, not the downwards, that was making me nervous.

well well well.....

this thread has me shakin my head.

( i will admit up front that i have not read this thread word for word but my take is that it is mostly a pros/ cons kite killers.)

and hears what you all should know.

if you use kk in strong enough wind(without a qr) they will not make you or anyone around you safer.
(im starting to think that alot of people here kite in 10 knots or less!)

this is what i know from personal experience.
if you let go of your kite in strong enough winds when using kk it is not a garuntee that your kite will fall nicely to the ground and land gently on the traling edge.

NOOOOOOOOO!! far from it your kite will start to turn(wichever direction it decides)
and now your kite is facing tail edge into the wind and wants to fly itself to the edge of the window( for discussions sake lets say at half power)

off the back lines( it does not matter how far up the back lines you put your attachment point for kk)

and start to do some funky undulations as it comes back into the window and flys itself back to the edge.....

at the side of the window or at zenith....

or fold up and reopen(that one is my personal fave)...

your kite will decide because you will have absolutely no controll over what your kite is doing right now.PREIOD.

so here is when you get to start to think with that little voice inside your head that calm clear and concise one .......

gee sure is a nice day to day...

mmmm sure is nice and windy .....

glad i have my helmet on...

i wonder if i should try and tear theese to two wristcuffs off.....

i knew i should have run these kk directly to my harness with a qr.....

(which is what i have done for when and only when i think that by letting go of my kite i will lose it :P... eg kiting on ice or snow covered lake )...

or should i try and get back to the handles and try to regain controll...

gee i wonder if there are any people downwind of me i cant see because i am too busy trying to get this outa controll kite off a me


that said i do not use kk 99 % of the time.

i also own a sabre 1 ok kite it has the saftey on to the two back lines with a common leash with a qr ok saftey system...but not good and certainly not great...

apperantly it received a few comlaints
and as we all know(or not i guess) 5 th line safety is the only safe system for a foil kite (and a tube kite for that matter)

and flexi foil went to a 5th line safety for the sabre 2 (CORRECT me if im wrong :shocked2: )

wow it feels like i just wrote a 1000 word essay .... i think i should go back to school haha

i guess the main point of this post is if your gonna use kk use a qr

kapiche ;-)

cheers

Are you only using one KK or only letting go one hand or something?

I hate to beat a dead horse. and i don't know if anyone brought this up or not cause i refuse to read 3 pages of going back and forth, but rather than start a new can of worms on a new post i would figure i would post here.

Many are against KS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-s, and thats fine. I could care less since i don't play with them :tumble:

BUT

What about the depowerable kites with leashes? your still attached to the kite? no?
is anyone against this for the Peter Lynn arcs? Because I am really interested in these kites and am accustomed to leashless safety systems from HQ


I look at KK and A Leash as the same. they both flag out the kite, right? while attached

Keep in mind people I am avoiding to be called a troll. :saint:

Quote:

Originally posted by dgkid78 What about the depowerable kites with leashes? your still attached to the kite? no? is anyone against this for the Peter Lynn arcs? Because I am really interested in these kites and am accustomed to leashless safety systems from HQ I look at KK and A Leash as the same. they both flag out the kite, right? while attached

All the leashes I have seen have a quick release. With kite killers there is no quick release.
Leashes are not attached to your wrist, Killers are attached to both wrists. If you are being dragged by your wrists, I think you would find very hard to use your hands to remove the cuffs.
A leash is a single line attached to the kite with an emergency release. Killers are two lines attached to the kite and there is no emergency release.
Do you look at Porches and and Pintos as the same. They both do the same thing. I think you will agree with me that doing the same thing does not make things the same. Try getting a date because you own a Pinto.

S

Just for you Scudders my dear, I'm going to do some Mythbusters tests with my KKs cos I don't believe that the velcro would be strong enough to pull me around ...
... how pimped out is your Pinto though?

Quote:

Originally posted by Scudley Quote: Originally posted by dgkid78 What about the depowerable kites with leashes? your still attached to the kite? no? is anyone against this for the Peter Lynn arcs? Because I am really interested in these kites and am accustomed to leashless safety systems from HQ I look at KK and A Leash as the same. they both flag out the kite, right? while attached All the leashes I have seen have a quick release. With kite killers there is no quick release. Leashes are not attached to your wrist, Killers are attached to both wrists. If you are being dragged by your wrists, I think you would find very hard to use your hands to remove the cuffs. A leash is a single line attached to the kite with an emergency release. Killers are two lines attached to the kite and there is no emergency release. Do you look at Porches and and Pintos as the same. They both do the same thing. I think you will agree with me that doing the same thing does not make things the same. Try getting a date because you own a Pinto. S

I was just simply asking thats all. as I don't have much experience with leashes or KKs. I just own leashless depowers. and only had KKs for a few months with my crossfires before moving to depower. I am only furthering my knowledge of different kites and different safety systems. There is no need to be talking down to me just because of a simple couple of questions. :moon: I didn't mean for the questions to sound rude. my mind was just racing while i was typing.

I understand people can be passionate about the sport but dammmmmm calm down man.