Scout II has a cross-over rig, but they moved it from the bar to the bridle - very clever - and leaves a clean and tidy bar (with optional d-loop included). The Scout II was demo-ed at JIBE this year and very well rec'd. Putting the cross-over rig in the bridle also means they only need 3 lines to the bar, even cleaner.

hmm not letting me click on page 3 so ill bump it a few times to see if it will let me.

but correct me if im wrong, the scout 2 has the wrist tether which i cannot connect to a harness, because if i drop the bar it will fold the kite making it fall from the sky? the ozone pure on the other hand i can drop the bar and the kite will continue to fly thanks to the dloop?

again, the scout II has a d-loop as well. The d-loop has safety cut-away release that can let you dump the kite to the wrist leash safety, but honestly when you need it is usually too late, which is why most will say wait until you know what you are doing before you hook in. It is pictured detached from the bar here...
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http://www.coastalwindsports.com/servlet/the-654/HQ-Scout-II...

Close up of D-loop...
http://www.coastalwindsports.com/servlet/the-178/HQ-Harness-...

Other brands are pretty similar

ok thank you for clearing that up! i didnt realize what that was. so i take it you are suggesting to get the scout over the ozone pure? and do you own a scout? well starting my trip back to minnesota from washington so ill be back on late tonight. feel free to leave more suggestions, thanks everyone!

also if you have a scout 2 4m or 5m for sale i would be very interested!

so the scout 2 witht the dloop would be the same thing as the setup on the ozone pure bar? look a bit different, the bar can slide about another 10 inches forward with the scout bar it looks like. will that be a problem while snowkiting?

the ozone pure is a 4m and is 475$, and the scout 5m is 427$ pretty much same setup. so i guess for me it comes down to what i aksed above, and also how they fly. so if anyone has experience with either id love to hear your input.

The Pure comes with a Kite, Control Bar, harness and training DVD. The Scout 5m is Kite and Bar only. If you want to hook in like you have been saying you would need to also purchase a harness for the Scout which will run you another $140(ish) for the harness and spreader bar.

The Pure is really a great kite to start out on and comes with everything you need minus the board. Another nice thing about the Pure is that the harness that comes with it can also be used for the large depower systems should you eventually decide to go that route.

For the price / Quality / Performance, the Pure is a very awesome package and seeing as you don't have any other gear right now - probably the best value for your situation.

Hope that helps.

Nothing wrong with the Pure- ozone makes a great product . The megatron chicken loop on the pure bar is arguably nicer than a d-loop but you pay a lot more. Some will fly only Ozone out of brand loyalty.
Scout is more affordable and still a fine kite with good great build quality. Fine for snow. I like the cross-over rig up in the bridle. Makes for a fine flying kite.

Just wanna throw in the fact that you'll be amazed at the power these things have but equally surprised that once you start moving WITH it instead of pulling against it it's a lot easier to hold onto. That alone is enough reason to not hook in until you know what's going on but you'll have to feel it for yourself to truly understand. I didn't hook in (using handles) for the first few months of my flying once I got moving with the kite. It's good for the arms afterall ; )

Wow this thread has gotten long,the 7.5 Frenzy that Maven mentioned is the smallest possible kite that I would try to snowkite with and a lot of the time you'll be sitting out sessions due to not enough wind or too much wind, the Frenzy is quite lifty so it may meet your needs of getting good air if flown in its proper range. My recomendation would be get at least an 8 or 10 meter depower and only fly in lighter winds until you get the hang of it.

Well, this thread has far too many responses for me to trouble myself to read through thoroughly, but I'm a snow kiter and I'd say start and go with a 5m Apex. I weigh 145# and have skied all my life and have been kite skiing since 2005. You need a harness to fly a depowerable. A 5m depowerable can be a powerful kite in the right conditions but in low winds, in my opinion, it would be acceptable to learn on and though its small, depending upon the ice / snow surface, if the winds are up, you could ride that all day long. However if the winds are light you will struggle if the snow is deept, sticky or slow.

That's just my $0.02. Trainer kites are great and that's a good place to start and that's a safe way to go about flying. I flew dual line kites for years before I started power kiting so I understood kites and the wind window. But I started power kiting on a 8.5 blade III on a bar (then moved to handles). I respected the kite, flew within my limits and did fine.

Trainer kites are great but without common sense even a trainer is dangerous. Depowers rule and are great on snow or when riding on varied surfaces in variable wind. I'd consider the 5m apex but that's just me. Others will obviously disagree and for good reasons. I'm not saying I'm right or they're wrong. I'm just saying you could learn on a 5m Apex if you respect the kite, take is slow and start in low wind conditions.

Welcome to the sport and forum. Once you've felt the pull of the wind and heard the lines sing as you move across a frozen wonderland, there will be no going back :smug:

Woah, lots of info here.

Just some words from one newb to another if I may indulge myself as I had many of the same questions as you but am beginning to put it together more day by day.

I snowboard too, LOVE IT and adding a kite into the fun just seemed like it would make those snow days even more kick-arse. So I called many a shop, and talked to as many folks as possible (thanks for all your continued patience with my questions guys!) and after careful deliberation, I got a 3m Scout II with the bar and harness line to give the old arms a rest and it has taught me the basics as well as the all-important wind window. In fact, a friend of mine (about 320lbs) wanted to try it in winds gusting up to about 12-14mph so i let him have at it. He had one hell of a grin on his face and later admitted it almost threw him around a bit when static flying it about the power zone at a good clip. Got some power alright.

So now I am hooked and bought a few depowerables and a few Ozone Flows to add to the quickly expanding quiver as i am not about to get overpowered by a kite not suited to the wind and i'll don't want to have to sit out because i don't have a good size for the day as i learn and progress more. To pay for all that, I am selling my 3m Scout II which is listed on the forum here - $300 shipped UPS via PayPal if interested. Perfect condition.

Another thing? Pick up the "How to Snowkite DVD".. a little pricy ($35ish) but worth it if you aren't going to get any professional instruction.

above.

i reckon you know by now that the first kite you get won't end being your goto kite once you get going on your skills and start putting them together.

that future kite is the one you really want to spend your money on.

go used for the first one, it will teach you what you really want to get.

don't be tempted to spend lots because you think you'll get the perfect one the first time....

longest first kite thread ever!

haha well im happy you guys have been patient with all my silly questions! i think im going to go with the ozone pure, and yes i would like to get it used to save some green. if anyone knows of one ill take it! for the right price that is. :tumble:

I honestly doubt that you'll find one used, they've been out less than a year.

I think you would be better off with a Peter Lynn Twister II anyway. Its more of a Boarders Kite.

Its also more of a handfull but you will be fine if you start with a small one! you can get them with a bar in your price range but I would really recommend getting a separate bar with a chicken loop and a decent quick release - Flexifoil traction extreme for example.

Then he'd still have to buy a harness separately.

Ozone XC or whatever they call it would be the way to go there then. the version with the spreader bar... and yeah fly unhooked for your first couple of sessions.

I would also get some knee pads and maybe armour shorts. I am assuming you have a helmet you wear snowboarding which will do fine if you take the winter liner out. otherwise buy a helmet too.

My point, lives2fly is that the Pure comes with a harness and a bar that has a chicken loop/quick release. Versus the Twister II that you're telling him he should buy.

ah ok sorry,

He should still buy what i said though

No seriously though if you buy a decent harness and bar right off then they will last you through a good few kite upgrades.

I havn't seen the ozone pure package to be honest let alone flown it. It might be great...

Another thought would be to get an Arc. Used ones can be pretty cheap and they are good for land snow and water. + your first kite just becomes part of your quiver.

mwc_xb-crw

if you're new to snowkiting and think the sport hasn't picked up in Minnesota yet, I don't know where you're hanging out. MN has one of the most developed kiting communities in the US - snow and water. Aaron, aka rudeboysaude, will back me on this.

You ever hear of the winter Crossing on Mille Lacs? Literally 100 - 150 kites in the air at once. Any day with some wind you'll find 10-15 kiters on decent sized lakes around the Twin Cities (White Bear, Waconia, Minnetonka, etc.). Their are lots of kiters in Duluth and around Mille Lacs, too.


Check out http://www.lakawa.com/ for the local news. The site has been the hub for the kiting community for at least 10 years. Look at their Snowkiting 101 course. They start with fixed bridle foils on a bar (3-5 m, depending on conditions, size, and skill) and usually end with an intro to depower LEI's in one day. Not so many foil kiters around here. Steve Blaine at http://www.mwsk2.com/ does lessons, and he's into Ozone foils for winter. He boards and skis. The money you spend on a full day may equal the cost of a used fixed bridle foil on bar, but may give you the skills to progress to a larger depower kite without purchasing the trainer.


Might also check out Aaron's website at http://www.mnadventure.com - he's got a cool site on northern MN kiting and other winter sports. And he's a great guy.

krumly

PS - don't know what you weigh, but doubt you'll use a 5m depower foil or LEI bow or SLE very often around here. Only on a couple days/season when it's howling. My guess is if you take a lesson, you'd jump into an 8 - 10 m depower and then add a 13-15 for lighter conditions. Most folks around here looking for a 2 kite quiver end up with something like that.

I see you creeping up to 4 and 5m as your choice ? I see you desire to get more out of your 1st kite by getting bigger. The way I see it you are limiting that kite to simply a trainer you will grow out of, just like you want to avoid. A quality smaller kite like the 3m Scout will live forever in your bag . You will want to fly it in high winds and to use it to teach others.

That Ozone package isn't likely to come up second hand too soon.

Just to be sure you are clear about the depower dilemma. The larger the kite the lower the wind it will perform in. Typically depower kites need at least 8mph for lager foils to even fly without a struggle. A small foil like a 5m won't even fly on it's own until almost 12mph doesn't start pulling until about 15. The BEST winds to learn in are UNDER 15mph.

A 3m trainer will fly in 4 or 5mph winds it will start to pull you around a bit at about 10 and get you going on hardpacked snow around the same 15mph that the 5m depower is just entering the picture!

It is the tried and true way of going about things. Like Fub's says. the 3m should be a no brainer. The kite you want to research is your SECOND kite ! It will be the one you TRULY will meet your goals with. The trainer bit unfortunately is the ONLY CORRECT way to go if you are working it out on your own.

well i have swayed away from the depower becuase it takes more wind to fly it. am i right? and the ozone pure or scout 2 5m is what im looking into now. any experience with either?

I Have had a fellow come up to me in the park who was amazed to see me jumping on off road rollerblades. He was very interested in how I got to that level. I told him what we have been TRYING TO TELL you about starting with a 3m trainer. He then told me all about how he started with a 5m Scout ( or previous gen ) and was just getting beat up by it because it's got too much power.
That's the only experience I can pass on with that kite !

I haven't flown the Pure, but have seen it flown by an experienced skiier, new to snowkiting. He was flying the 4M, and did quite well for a newbie, IMHO. The harness is a basic padded waist belt with a D ring to attach the chicken loop to. This is something you can probably use right out of the box, but you will be wanting more, all of us do eventually!:roll:

I should add, this was after an hour or so flying a 2M Ozone Imp trainer (3-line), to get used to the wind window etc.

I started out 4 years ago with a 2m Slingshot B2 trainer kite. I still fly that today with my skateboards in 20-30mph winds. Being a snowboarder maybe you skateboard also in the off season so you would always have a chance to keep sharp on all your skills.

I'd say spend $75 on a small trainer complete with bar and lines. You'll always have use for it like I said.

Welcome to the great sport!

crewx -

Dude, how close to the Twin Cities are you? Go to the classified section at www.lakawa.com. There is 3.5 m HQ Beamer with bar, safety leash and harness loop for $180.00. Claim is in mint shape. Looks like a Minneapolis area code.

krumly