Thanks for the excellent explanation WS!

I think my understanding is on the same page as your explanation.

The trapeze is the same as a loops I see for sale on the net? I think understand the differences of the 3 line bar vs the depower bar.
If I am correct the bar above is a trimable 3 liner with a safety that dumps the kite thru the 3rd line. Correct? Thats what Im thinking I want to fly. The depower constantly works the nose of the kite as well as control the flying. Correct?.

If the Nasa is not classically depowerable whats the advantage of the depower bar other than constant nose trim?
I am assuming depowering on both bars is the same, manipulation of the nose. One bar does it constantly while the other has only adjustable depower(trim). I am assuming the depower is flown all the way out and is pulled in to reduce power. Backwards from the LEI kites?

What this comes down to as which bar I want to order. Im thinking just the 3 line, which I will loop(trapeze) and build in a form of take up of the third line for trim. Sound right?

OK Heres my Slingshot Turbo 3 bar.

My idea is to remove the locking tongue from the loop, now I have a trapeze right? Taking the loop shorten the rope(the one in the center) and mount it close to the bar. Rope thru the loop with the black pull will then be gone. Route the small line with the red loop thru the now open guide where the larger rope was. It will stop in the guide above the jam cleat. This is a no trim on the nose line position, to trim the kite just pull the line thru the cleat. The small center line will be worn in some fashion maybe to my harness. Untrap the loop let go of the bar and its pulled from the cleat dumping the kite.

I could add a line/loop to the chicken loops release. In a real emergency I could just jerk it. Im released and the kite is dumped automatically.

Please point out the flaws in my plan, seems too easy.

Ben,

This is a "trapeze":

[img][/img]

It's the U-shaped loop below the bar. Note that it has a quick release on it as well as a donkey stick. You'll want both. When you use a setup like this you are turning a NS kite into a two line flyer with a safety line. The central third line comes into play when you pull the trapeze release and disengage the bar from your harness. Otherwise your harness is taking the load of your two lines secured to the ends of the bar. I really didn't find that the nose scrunching works well from a practical perspective while moving in a buggy as I described before because it makes the kite fall back in the wind window. The third line is GREAT however for dumping all power and flagging out the kite in an emergency. The right amount of tension in the 3rd central line is just enough to keep the line from sagging far below the outer lines under tension, but not so tight as to deform the nose of the kite.

Hey oldben I have a set of nasa star 2's. 2.5, 4, 5.5, 7 and a street kite bar and a 3 line bar with long lines and harness trapeze. all born kite stuff.

I would do $500 for all of it if your interested. They are fantastic kites but I have lost the desire and wouldn't mind having a few bucks.

my email is seansayre@gmail.com

also have a buggy if you need one.

Sean (Ssayre) offers some great gear and he keeps his stuff in great condition. His buggy has never even been in the mud (OK, that last bit isn't true). Should that deal not be right for you, what you are looking for is a HQ Harness Loop.

Here is one place you could buy one:

http://www.shadeonme.com/hq-trainer-kite-harness-attachment-...


Here is how you attach them:

All Right a Deal!!

Will email you!

Sean is on our good trader list, and I've done deals with him. I'd have no hesitation to buy from Sean

So waiting to hear from Sean
Sounds like he has exactly what I need. Got $$ waiting!

My take away from the above discussions is jut to fly the Nasa on a three line bar with a trapeze and use the 3rd line as an emergency dump and forget about trim. Right?

If so that greatly simplifies matters.

Quote: Originally posted by oldben

So waiting to hear from Sean Sounds like he has exactly what I need. Got $$ waiting! My take away from the above discussions is jut to fly the Nasa on a three line bar with a trapeze and use the 3rd line as an emergency dump and forget about trim. Right? If so that greatly simplifies matters.

that is correct. I sent you an email.

Thanks for the kind words guys.

Sean

Fly the NASA hooked in usually.
When the wind picks up unhook and fly as a depower kite.
When the wind is back under your limit hook in.
The depower is used a lot in gusty wind, and not so much in steady wind.
Depower is very useable to whatever degree you feel comfortable with.

In a fully depowered state the kite will sit up there and wait, at almost no power, but steerable.

The 3 rd line is in use as a depower a lot. It's not just a safety.
It is a safety of course, but I use it when I want my kite to pull less than too much.

The peculiarity of the set up is simply this. You can't depower while hooked in.
Bar pressure as such will be the full weight of the kite while unhooked, and progressively less as you increase the bars throw, or distance from your harness hook.
Hooked in you carry the kite on your harness 100%
Unhooked bar pressure varies with degree of depower.
Familiar?

PS Born Kite strop or harness trapeze isn't as useful as HQs. The Born model comes undone by accident sometimes and can leave you "holding the bar" with no extra hand to reconnect the safety.
If you have this headache, re rig the elastic and tighten it up.

Fair wind.

Quote: Originally posted by ssayre

They are fantastic kites but I have lost the desire and wouldn't mind having a few bucks.

Hey Sean, what have you moved on to?. I don't kite nearly as much as I use to but I'm at the skatepark or longboarding hills every weekend. Do you skate still or have you moved in a totally different direction?

Quote:

I really didn't find that the nose scrunching works well from a practical perspective while moving in a buggy as I described before because it makes the kite fall back in the wind window.

Here we go again. For the n-th time - it falls back in the window because it has that tendency to begin with. This can be eliminated by bridle adjustments but it is more difficult to find the optimal setting on NS because it involves separating the bridles and adjusting their lengths - not a job for uninitiated. It is easier to do on DFO.

And it is worth remembering that it is impossible to get the best performance from any FB flown on a bar - even more so with Nasas.

Quote: Originally posted by B-Roc

Quote: Originally posted by ssayre   They are fantastic kites but I have lost the desire and wouldn't mind having a few bucks. Hey Sean, what have you moved on to?. I don't kite nearly as much as I use to but I'm at the skatepark or longboarding hills every weekend. Do you skate still or have you moved in a totally different direction?

I'm not doing either anymore. There is a lot of things around the house I want to catch up on and my daughter will be a senior next year and there are a lot of things I want to focus on other than my hobbies. I may return to both down the road. I have been enjoying making BBQ for friends and family.

Quote: Originally posted by ssayre

I have been enjoying making BBQ for friends and family.

Good to hear. Can't beat good times with Friends and Family.

Ok

Seans hooking me up!

Hope to get a bunch of kite time before Jibe. Maybe yall can interface me to the buggy then?

Quote: Originally posted by oldben

Ok Seans hooking me up! Hope to get a bunch of kite time before Jibe. Maybe yall can interface me to the buggy then?

Happy to hear this. We've all gotten to know Sean through this site. He's a good egg and I'm sure has taken superb care of his equipment. Looks by all rights to be a superb grill master to boot, a prized skill in my book.

You may or may not realize this, but the NS2s are really pretty kites, IMHO, nicer looking than the NS3s. I entered the NS fray after Born had launched the NS3 line so I never got to own one but I've always liked their vertical paneling better than the horizontal paneling of the 3rd-gen line. Not sure why he switched.

Sorry to see Sean backing out of power Kiting, and I for one hope to learn of his return in the years to come. I respect how he is prioritizing things.

Quote: Originally posted by oldben

Ok Seans hooking me up! Hope to get a bunch of kite time before Jibe. Maybe yall can interface me to the buggy then?

Don't forget to join NAPKA.

i for one am not comfortable w/ Sean selling his stuff...he has obviously lost his mind
nothing a day at WW wouldn't fix
jusayin

I dunno abkayak

Might mean he gets to buy new stuff!

Randy will join NAPKA for sure.

Weather is starting to get nice here was 90 yesterday! Will begin the convectional heating season soon which starts the sea breezes like clock work around 2 oclock (at least in Darien).

Any of you locals ever fly Sapelo?

I'm not completely out. All I need is a 6-8m fb and a loaner buggy and I'd be good. Still have a special 3m hornet and 4.4 soulfly

Ben-

Yeah. Sapelo is one of the few islands with a very decent lowtide east-west beach, handy with south winds.

Bit of a schlep for us, almost faster to take the boat and beach it.

But also a lovely run on the east side with onshore wind.

Ditto Cumberland. North-south beaches thick on the ground around here, huh?

But it's JI that is justly world-famous.

I plan to be on JI on Saturday if you want to motor down and meet up.

So
Randy, Jason, and Spencer, Sean says Im to buy yall a beer at Jibe. Maybe I will just bring a bunch, if yall dont have to drive anywhere.

JimSSI

Definitely would like to meet up Saturday. Just let me know where and when.

Sapelo is not far from me. I go to the island often doing volunteer work. When we finish early I always head for the beach. The reason Im trying the landboard is so I can take a kite and it on the ferry. Buggy might be a problem. I live on Black Island so its a 20/25 min boat ride in my boat.

Mathew worked the beaches over a bit but its still a big wide N/S run on the east. South end is good but not near as expansive.
Due to the limited public access the beaches are almost always empty excepting weddings and special bookings.

The DNR keeps a pretty tight reign on the place but it is possible maybe to get a custom"tour" for a few kiters. Gosh knows the Island could use some kind of "tourist" influx of $$. I love the place!

A big thanks to Sean for the sale of the nice quiver of kites and the buggy!!!

I sold a rather expensive aerial photag rig today.

So with the inflow of capital I set the folks at DFO to sending me a Nasa 9 4.4m depower complete with their "Nasa Bar".
Picked a bad time to buy as the goings on in government upset the markets and the $/euro exchange rate. Could have bought it cheaper last week. Still cost less shipped than the common 3m ish trainer kites. Im curious how this kite will fly.

Now, enlighten me. I had assumed the depower scrunched the nose and assumed again I could do this with a 3line bar. I saw a vid that indicates the bridals are split to do this. Right?

If so I never realized this and might have appeared a bit "rock headed" about Nasa depowering insisting on using the nose line for trim and depower.

Is this the case?

Quote: Originally posted by oldben

A big thanks to Sean for the sale of the nice quiver of kites and the buggy!!! I sold a rather expensive aerial photag rig today. So with the inflow of capital I set the folks at DFO to sending me a Nasa 9 4.4m depower complete with their "Nasa Bar". Picked a bad time to buy as the goings on in government upset the markets and the $/euro exchange rate. Could have bought it cheaper last week. Still cost less shipped than the common 3m ish trainer kites. Im curious how this kite will fly. Now, enlighten me. I had assumed the depower scrunched the nose and assumed again I could do this with a 3line bar. I saw a vid that indicates the bridals are split to do this. Right? If so I never realized this and might have appeared a bit "rock headed" about Nasa depowering insisting on using the nose line for trim and depower. Is this the case?

If you are referring to the three line bar and NS2s that Sean just sold you, then the answer is "it depends". I see you bought his buggy too (with the construction site mud washed off I hope :D ) so let's assume for this discussion that you have your (not so old) seat meat in the buggy and one of his kites in the air. NS2s are bridled for a left and right power line and a central line for the nose. The bridling can be further split for handled flying but that takes out the center.

Based on what you've said about your hand I'm further thinking you are using a harness and have hooked in. This means that the outer power lines are fixed and the center line will sag out to the kite, hopefully with just the right amount of tension to make it readily available but not applying any pressure to the nose of the kite in normal operation. The only way you will be able to adjust tension in the middle line will be to reach out, grab the ball and pull it towards you. You will have to hold the ball in to keep it in.

Here's the rub, and we've discussed this before. Born NS kites sit deep in the wind window naturally. This means it will seem almost next to you when moving in a buggy as compared to sort of next to / in front of you. Clock dial at 5:30 instead of 4:30 with 12:00 being in front of you. As such you get a lot of side pull combined with front pull with an NS while buggying. Any manipulation of the nose during flight and motion will compound this problem, dropping the kite further back. I for one just don't think this works well. Others may well disagree with me and that's great.

Not trying to cut off your discussion, but I believe many of your questions will best be answered by actual seat time. I remember noodling and noodling over things in the theoretical before actually moving. Once I got going I was able to learn from actual experience. Hard, if not impossible, to beat that.

One bit of advice: practice quickly grabbing the release on the chicken loop and try to convince yourself it is OK to use it. When you need it things will have gotten, err, "busy" and you will do yourself well to know what to do. Several of my worst crashes in the buggy came as a result of me trying to fly out of something when pulling the ripcord would have been far wiser in retrospect. Yes, you will crash. Just try not to be bull headed like your friend in Utah. :karate:

Quote: Originally posted by oldben

A big thanks to Sean for the sale of the nice quiver of kites and the buggy!!! I sold a rather expensive aerial photag rig today. So with the inflow of capital I set the folks at DFO to sending me a Nasa 9 4.4m depower complete with their "Nasa Bar". Picked a bad time to buy as the goings on in government upset the markets and the $/euro exchange rate. Could have bought it cheaper last week. Still cost less shipped than the common 3m ish trainer kites. Im curious how this kite will fly. Now, enlighten me. I had assumed the depower scrunched the nose and assumed again I could do this with a 3line bar. I saw a vid that indicates the bridals are split to do this. Right? If so I never realized this and might have appeared a bit "rock headed" about Nasa depowering insisting on using the nose line for trim and depower. Is this the case?

If you are referring to the three line bar and NS2s that Sean just sold you, then the answer is "it depends". I see you bought his buggy too (with the construction site mud washed off I hope :D ) so let's assume for this discussion that you have your (not so old) seat meat in the buggy and one of his kites in the air. NS2s are bridled for a left and right power line and a central line for the nose. The bridling can be further split for handled flying but that takes out the center.

Based on what you've said about your hand I'm further thinking you are using a harness and have hooked in. This means that the outer power lines are fixed and the center line will sag out to the kite, hopefully with just the right amount of tension to make it readily available but not applying any pressure to the nose of the kite in normal operation. The only way you will be able to adjust tension in the middle line will be to reach out, grab the ball and pull it towards you. You will have to hold the ball in to keep it in.

Here's the rub, and we've discussed this before. Born NS kites sit deep in the wind window naturally. This means it will seem almost next to you when moving in a buggy as compared to sort of next to / in front of you. Clock dial at 5:30 instead of 4:30 with 12:00 being in front of you. As such you get a lot of side pull combined with front pull with an NS while buggying. Any manipulation of the nose during flight and motion will compound this problem, dropping the kite further back. I for one just don't think this works well. Others may well disagree with me and that's great.

Not trying to cut off your discussion, but I believe many of your questions will best be answered by actual seat time. I remember noodling and noodling over things in the theoretical before actually moving. Once I got going I was able to learn from actual experience. Hard, if not impossible, to beat that.

One bit of advice: practice quickly grabbing the release on the chicken loop and try to convince yourself it is OK to use it. When you need it things will have gotten, err, "busy" and you will do yourself well to know what to do. Several of my worst crashes in the buggy came as a result of me trying to fly out of something when pulling the ripcord would have been far wiser in retrospect. Yes, you will crash. Just try not to be bull headed like your friend in Utah. :karate:

Maybe we explain to the nice DNR folks that below the high tide mark is public, and that all things not prohibited are compulsory?

Low tide Saturday at 1:30 - SSE wind is predicted , which sucks. Rain is forecast, which sucks more.

Fingers crossed.

Quote: Originally posted by oldben

So Randy, Jason, and Spencer, Sean says Im to buy yall a beer at Jibe. Maybe I will just bring a bunch, if yall dont have to drive anywhere. JimSSI Definitely would like to meet up Saturday. Just let me know where and when. Sapelo is not far from me. I go to the island often doing volunteer work. When we finish early I always head for the beach. The reason Im trying the landboard is so I can take a kite and it on the ferry. Buggy might be a problem. I live on Black Island so its a 20/25 min boat ride in my boat. Mathew worked the beaches over a bit but its still a big wide N/S run on the east. South end is good but not near as expansive. Due to the limited public access the beaches are almost always empty excepting weddings and special bookings. The DNR keeps a pretty tight reign on the place but it is possible maybe to get a custom"tour" for a few kiters. Gosh knows the Island could use some kind of "tourist" influx of $$. I love the place!

One bit of advice: practice quickly grabbing the release on the chicken loop and try to convince yourself it is OK to use it. When you need it things will have gotten, err, "busy" and you will do yourself well to know what to do. Several of my worst crashes in the buggy came as a result of me trying to fly out of something when pulling the ripcord would have been far wiser in retrospect. Yes, you will crash. Just try not to be bull headed like your friend in Utah. :karate:

[/rquote]

good advice from windstruck. I did use the release semi-frequently in my gusty wind. better safe than sorry.

Ben, are you in for the whole week at JIBE?

I also had a full set of NASA Star 2s and are very familiar with them in the buggy. Looking forward to meeting you.

Thanks windstruck, great explanation and advice, I have thought about it twice as much(hehe).
Definitely going to be harnessed and will definitely become familiar with bailing.

I hope Sean left the hardwire(?) I like that idea on down the road

JimSSI Saturday doesnt look too great, have to wait and see.

I flew South Dunes today with my 2.2 Symphony(read 1.6sqm). Winds NNE. The windmeter indicated 16 sustained with a measured gust around 22. Im sure some were higher later on. I had enough judgement to leave the 3msq Slingshot in the car, the little kite provided plenty of work out and a few small scuds. Had a blast parking the kite down by the water on the left wing tip then ripping it right just over the sand thru the window. Thats when I got the mini scud. My dear bride tried her hand at it and promptly drilled the poor thing into the hard pack by doing the "car type steering"(I warned her). Tough little kite!

We should ponder Sapelo. its untapped. You are right is is accessible/useable beach wise by private boat.

3shot(sounds like my wifes drinks).

I hope to be at Jibe as much as my aged body will allow me. Hope to see you there!

The DFO folks got the depower 4.4 in the wind so to speak today the tracking# shows. Hope to have it by Jibe.

In all this stuff, what I thought was a large foil turns out to be a paraglider.
Anybody game? Maybe we could fly it as a large(very) kite at Jibe.