Hey mr Vermont

dont do that in Lake Champlain, I ride there too ;-)

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Originally posted by vtliter As no one else has touched on the REAL advantage of ARCS and autozenith, please allow me to verbalize the most important attribute: The ability to stop your session, stand in waist deep water, pull your "stuff" out of your shorty, and take a good long piss while the kite just floats over your head. Hands off the bar, no worries, no diving kites, no getting yanked around while you try to take care of business. Now let's see if you LEI flyers can pull that off with as little hassle. Bet you're reconsidering ARCS now eh?

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Originally posted by csa_deadon Back in the day of Catch the wind the fly line of choice was kevlar. Those of us on the kite crews wouldn't be caught dead flying anything else at D-river or Moolack Beach. Due to the large number of Gayla "Bat" kites in the air.

I got a couple team chevron Hawiians and a few NRS's that I need to pull out and fly. Got a couple dozen sets of Kevlar lines too. Guess it's about time to dig those babies out of the bag and put em back in the air. Hmmmm, I just remembered I also have a custom made 7 stack of 3/4 Hawaiian's.....Yea, I gotta get out a bit more.

Quote:

Originally posted by vtliter As no one else has touched on the REAL advantage of ARCS and autozenith, please allow me to verbalize the most important attribute: The ability to stop your session, stand in waist deep water, pull your "stuff" out of your shorty, and take a good long piss while the kite just floats over your head. Hands off the bar, no worries, no diving kites, no getting yanked around while you try to take care of business. Now let's see if you LEI flyers can pull that off with as little hassle. Bet you're reconsidering ARCS now eh?

Auto-Peenith?

i just do in the board shorts or wet suit.........................its a surf thang......................:duh::duh:

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Originally posted by awindofchange Quote: Originally posted by csa_deadon Back in the day of Catch the wind the fly line of choice was kevlar. Those of us on the kite crews wouldn't be caught dead flying anything else at D-river or Moolack Beach. Due to the large number of Gayla "Bat" kites in the air. I got a couple team chevron Hawiians and a few NRS's that I need to pull out and fly. Got a couple dozen sets of Kevlar lines too. Guess it's about time to dig those babies out of the bag and put em back in the air. Hmmmm, I just remembered I also have a custom made 7 stack of 3/4 Hawaiian's.....Yea, I gotta get out a bit more.

Those Hawaiian Team kites were great for turning heads. IMO probably the loudest framed kite ever produced, next to the NSR when it was set up right. Speaking of stacks gonna have to reenter the garage and dig around. May have a 24 stack of "Rainbows, or Hyperkites" (I hope)

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Originally posted by tridude i just do in the board shorts or wet suit.........................its a surf thang......................:duh::duh:

last time I pee'd in my wetsuit, that's how it ended

Alright I have to make this official. So after 13 reply's in a row that are off subject this thread has been officially hijacked!:P

LEI's suck and that's final! Show me a 10 year old LEI that rips. Oh oopss sorry....there's none.

Thread back on topic.

I have a classic very rare '02 North Rhino for cheap since they are such great kites I'll let a PKF member have it for $300. Oh, it's barely been used mostly since it pretty much sucks. But's it's a classic collectors kite now!

Thread back on topic.

But no foil guys seem to be able to explain why they suck.

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Originally posted by DenisLaMenace Quote: Originally posted by tridude i just do in the board shorts or wet suit.........................its a surf thang......................:duh::duh: last time I pee'd in my wetsuit, that's how it ended

Back off topic! How did you get that picture of me!?! :ticking:

Cant explain it so go off topic huh

I won't even try to explain why one is better, or why one is worse. I for one have never flown an LEI. I have no ambition to fly one cause I'm to lazy to use a pump. I like what I got. I'm sure when compared fixed bridal vs. closed fixed bridal vs. LEI vs. Twin skin each has it's pros and cons.
snobdr if you prefer LEI's over everything else, great fly what makes you happy. I like fixed bridal and twin skin. I also like Lamborghini over Ferrari, Ford over GM, and strawberry ice cream over chocolate.

Bottom line is this people. Don't knock what other people fly. Keep an open mind and try to learn from others experience. snobdr feel free to u2u me. I would love to hear your take on LEI's in general and which model you prefer.

This kind of reminds me of the hay day of sport kiting. T.O.L. vs Chicago Fire vs etc.
We each know what we love, and everything else sucks!!

So im out this weekend kiting with my buddy that flys foils. Winds are right around 15 but up and down with some gusting. We both setup, me my Rebel 12M him his 12M P4. Oh course his setup is half the time. I help him launch and go over and get my harness on. By the time i have my harness on he's back. I land him and he explains he tried a mod to get it to fly better but obviously didnt work. About 15 min later hes ready to go again, so i launch him and out he goes. I quickly self launch and join him. Hes riding his 54 door and im on a 40 WLF. Im having no problem staying upwind pulling some small floaty jumps, watching him struggle just to stay upwind at all.
After about maybe a 35-45 min session hes a few hundred yards downwind walking back up as im getting landed. We chill for a bit and i help him doing mixer test and making adjustments (2 sets of hands and 2 sets of eyes). We fuel up and head out again, I have to help him launch and i self launch. Wind is up a bit more and hes staying upwind for now. Struggling the whole time with tip tucking and the kite generally not holding shape with the little bit of gusting. Im nicely powered trying new moves. Within 20 mins the wind dropps and hes again gowing downwind. with another walk back.
In the meantime i see a guy setting up his Neo 11M so i head over and chat with him a while. Hes been kiting for little over a year. Got this kite for a deal. Watch him setup and help him launch. He heads out and also goes downwind having all kinds of problems Its not long before he puts the kite into the water and then struggles for 10 or so mins trying to relaunch to no avail and gathers things up. Once hes back on shore he says it was hard to handle, and it was like carring 50 pounds of wet back pack. Shame his other kite was only a 9M LEI or he would have been riding.
Back to helping my bud make yet another Bridal adjustment and our 3rd session wasnt much better. This time he didnt let himself go as far downwind, Guess he was tired of walking back.
Me, i was still holding ground still jumping. Good thing he was having such problems with the P4 as he was able to watch me from shore trying air to blind landings. Thanks to his tips i actually landed one.
So for that day, everyone on an LEI(id say probably 25 people) had good riding. My bud did some riding, some walking, and some adjusting. The other guy with the neo did some uncontrolled downwind, a bit of trying to relaunch, and a walk with 50 pounds of wet kite.
LEIs better? They sure were that day!!!

I used to ride my 15m P4 when people were on 11-14m inflatables. it seems to me that a 15m P4 has less pull then a 15m SLE.

I have also found it very difficult to go upwind on a P4 unless I am "powered"

if you were on a 12m Rebel its no surprise someone on a 12m P4 would be underpowered. that kite is basically C-shaped and has little to no low end. not to mention flysurfer screwed up big time and released it before they got the tune right. that's wasn't the case with the Pulse 2 or Speed 2.


As for the NEO. I don't know anything about them. personally I was very skeptical of them being a good water kite since they are HQ's "FIRST" water kite. I assume that means its bound to have some quirks. Flysurfer has been making water relaunchable kites for I think almost 10 years now. I think Peter Lynn has been doing it for a similar amount of time too.


I can't believe you're still trying to argue this point. You aren't going to convert anybody here. Just make people irritated that you can't seem to "agree to disagree"

I flew C-kites before I switched to foils. I switched to foils because I liked them better. I have since tried several new bow's and hybrids and I am still keeping my foils. I'll continue to try new kites regardless of there design as long as I can. if I decide to switch to a new design I will do so based off of my own opinion. not the one someone else tried to shove down my throat.

btw since some of you guys think inflatables are so great I figured I'd throw this up there.

2008 10m Eclipse Thruster Kite, Bar, Bag, Lines

arguably the best SLE on the market by some.....

I need money to pay bills. u2u me if interested. I'll be putting it on ebay today or tomorrow.

$450obo + shipping

Oh well in another thread people were saying how great Neos were and recomending it as a good crossover kite to someone who was new to depower. Didnt look to good from what i saw.
As far as the P4 it has a much flatter shape then my rebel. Its nowhere even close to a c shape. It should rival the power of my 12 rebel. I didnt even add that my bud is like 20 pounds lighter then me.

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Originally posted by snobdr Oh well in another thread people were saying how great Neos were and recomending it as a good crossover kite to someone who was new to depower. Didnt look to good from what i saw.

You are unfortunately suffering from the "last word syndrome" and like all zealots on a mission, you are prone to errors of fact.

I fly NEO's on Water, land and last weekend snow for the first time so perfect for me. I do not give a toss if they are for you or not, nor do I value your opinion for telling me what is best for me.

NEOS as the thread you have mentioned above are rated as intermediate to expert, and I still think it is a good cross over foil for some one looking to advance - so why dont you reread the post and correct your statement.


In fact can i quote you on the same thread

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Originally posted by snobdr posted on 7-20-2009 at 12:15 AM Yea ok, im sorry the neo is the perfect first depower kite.

Snobdr -I think that speaks volumes for your credibility

for people who want a good crossover kite, i like the NEO, but like all good multipurpose devices its ok at everything, not a specialist at one thing. Make your own mind up as to what you want to do.

As for Snobdr, people will make their own mind up - you have had a opinion, its a good one - but- along with my favourite saying "opinions are like arseholes - everyones got one" you have unfortunately disappeared up yours.

Lets see my post you have quoted was in sarcasm. If you had truley read the whole post you would see i was against it. The originator of that thread had posted he had been static flying for some time and wanted to try a depower for mostly landboarding and possibly in water. He also stated he might just buy a water specific kite.
Everyone chimed in and said how wounderful the neo was, and it was the perfect kite for him. I even think he bought one.
I bet if you asked the guy that had one this weekend he wount agree with you at all. Thought it was said that they were so easy to relaunch off water which seemed to be total BS as this guy tried for 10 mins.
GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT!!!
Once again it seems that rather then post facts or experences for or against, sum would rather throw stones. I have never told someone what they should ride. I have only posted my experences on why in general LEIs are a better all around kite.

I do so love the way that snobdr will use watching a single person having problems as a total condemnation of a kite. Apparently the possibility that maybe the person involved was lousy never occurs to him...

I saw this guy once who was having a terrible time trying to drive this car with a manual transmission. some guy came up to him and said my car always goes 100% of the time when I push the gas pedal down, its an automatic. the guy with the manual thought that was great and was frustrated and pissed off that he had been "tricked" in to buying a car with a manual.


not exactly a true story but you get the idea. manuals aren't for everybody but the people who drive them know that there is something very special about them.


snobdr will you hurry up and reply to this with the last word again so this thread can die?

The kiter in question was still a novice, but could stay upwind. This was a new kite to him. This same kite was sugested as a good kite for a kiter with no depower experence, and no water experence.
Now is it really the best choice for him?
He was willing to get another water specific kite when the time came.
Wouldnt an apex or montana been a better choice? Then have bought a water specific kite when he was ready for that?

Heck this same LEI vs Foil can be discussed in a civil manner on other forums but cannot here. I thought with all the foil guys here there would be some valid points made. No just useless banter and let this die. In the beginning i stated that this site jams foils down your throat. It does. the neo thread proves it. It was not the best kite for the guy. Yet you all posted how great a kite it was. Yea for a good kiter, not a beginner. Im sure he will have a great intro to water kiting.

I apologize, there were a few good points made by some posters.

I learned on bridled closed cell foils. Yeah, it was tougher then an LEI. I drug my water filled kite in lots of times. But I made a choice to kite with foils. I didn't like LEIs, still don't. It was a personal choice because they work the best for me and it's what I like to ride. After a few crappy sessions I got the relaunch down. Now it's a piece of cake. I haven't drug in a wet foil for many many years and never miss a launch.

It basically all comes down to what you want to choose and whatever you choose, you're going to suggest to others. Obviously it made sense to you why you went that path, but try to be open to the fact that others don't always agree with you and will choose different paths.

Foil vs LEI is never a civilized debate and never will be. Fly lots of kites, pick the route you want to go, and have fun with it. The grass is never greener. Each side has it pluses and minuses and this topic will go on forever and in the end, people will choose what they want anyway. That's why forums are great. A bunch of people voicing opinions on things which basically all come down to making a personal choice on whether you believe it or not.

" I thought with all the foil guys here there would be some valid points made. No just useless banter and let this die."

this is exactly why i've given up replying to this thread. You believe one thing and clearly don't listen to any of the very pertinent points made for the argument on both sides, so whats the point? You'll just shun any opinion opposing your own and tell us about an inexperienced kiter having a hard time on a kite not designed for him, the psycho4 is an advanced kite for someone who knows what they're doing and knows how to get the most out of the kite, if that makes it a bad kite then so be it, but if you know what you're doing then you can have a bloody amazing time on that kite, just as you can on a zillion other kites out there of all shapes and sizes.

Can we just all agree with this one closing statement?

KITES ARE GOOD.

SINGLE LINE KITES ARE THE BOMB. MULTI LINE KITES SUCK!!!

Quote:

Originally posted by snobdr Lets see my post you have quoted was in sarcasm.

oh ok well when reading your posts its important for the readers to discern whether you are being sarcastic, helpful, obtuse, or well meaning.

So when I read what you write I will in future take it with a raised eyebrow and learn to ignore you. {sound advice for others as well}

For what its worth and I know it wont make a shred of difference to you - I have never had any trouble relaunching my foils from the water, my experience has always been positive and I can recommend these sorts of kites based on my experience with them.

I have also never had any problem relaunching my Waroo either.



:singing::singing:

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Originally posted by PHREERIDER i loved tube kites for all the same reasons until.....i started loosing sessions to leaking/failing bladders and did not want to deal with it EVER ! new stuff, used stuff it will happen , but not to me! BTW thanks BLOAH for the V10 that Vucker ROCKS! in 30+ glad you got something you like, get comfortable and have some blowout FUN! it's why we're here folks

right on bloah !