one time at band camp.............................................:duh::duh:

hey if it feels good fly it however, there was a guy Saturday on a 13m Venom that pretty much owned Folly...................

most folks here (Folly beach) dont care what you fly just fly it....................we keep and eye on each other and the rest is gravy................ Snob you do make some good points and kudos to you for working a mixer adjustment on the beach........................

:duh::duh:

Domdino made a few points, along with NWsurf , tridude and mabye one or two others made a point, mostly about light wind performance, jumping, setup, durability. They have added to this thread, the rest of the people who posted added nothing to the thread, just pointless remarks. I guess the other 15 or so posters on this thread cant think for themselfs/ have no opnion.

Tridude i was hoping everyone would kick in and make good points. only a few did. Thanks for those that did.

Its all the same, ..... just different

If I remember the person who was told a Neo would be a good 1st depower kite was going to primarily ride on land but hoped to move to water ?

These are the people I suggest a closed cell foil to. Beginers are better off with a foil if they are mostly going to be ( crash ) on land.

Do you really think a novice is better off with a LEI when he will mostly be on land ?

I saw a girl the other day with one of those North Rebels. She couldn't even get up on her board. Lousy kite ???

Once again adding nothing to the thread
The neo guy said he wouldnt mind getting a water specific kite later on.
There are better kites for land for him, and if you are going to get a specific kite for water, then why not get one thats easy to use in the water.
A friend lost her kite in hatteras so i let her borrow my rebel and she liked it so much she bought one.

Quote:

Originally posted by snobdr Once again adding nothing to the thread The neo guy said he wouldnt mind getting a water specific kite later on.

Wow you are closed minded!!!

The NOTHING I was adding was posed in the form of a question that you ignored !

Not the question about the Girl and the Rebel. I was just having fun with that.

Only your jokes and your opinions seem to count though!

You are so bent that you have never noticed that I agree with you in 99% of what you cram down our throats !

just found someone posted this saying on nwkite.com.

"kind of like a johovah's witness at the front door. you cant really argue with the final point they make. you just have to shut the door.

so true, laughing......"

felt very applicable to this thread

ANYWAY, IF YOU DONT FLY A FULL ON C KITE WITH ZERO WIND RANGE THEN YOU ARE GAY. NO BOWS NO HYBREDS NO 5TH LINE.

Yes blade he will be better on land with a foil. There are better foils suited to his needs then the neo.
didnt meant to hurt your feelings

Carl I asked my foil bud if he were to switch to LEI what he would fly. Answer 08 vegas. Fast turning, smooth power, holds power through turns. This was after the p4 experence.

Ahh see, again EACH TO THERE BLOODY OWN - i PERSONALLY disliked the 08 vegas. The 06 vegas on the other hand is amazing that thing has so much power! Talking about stability when i rode the 08 vegas i thought it was less stable than any foil i've ever flown, but definitely very very very fast, twitchy and sensitive a bit to gusts. Also took me a while to relaunch the sucker but i'm a little out of practice relaunching 5th liners... Kite had hardly any float but it did whip me up there pretty nicely, also didn't think it had much range, i was on a 12m and the wind started off 18-24, then when it dipped below 18 it lost power quickly, I had a full days session on one a couple of months ago. Still nice, i've just flown many kites i consider for myself to be much better.

Yea dom you do loose some stability to get the speed out of it. I think any c kite will feel less stable then a foil. And we all know that c kites dont have the windrange. maybe a step better then a fixed bridal huh.

He would make a good choice then. the vegas is an excellant kite and is one of the kites of choice for top riders at my local, along side the fuel. but i still rip it up along side them on my arcs. which goes to show that you can put a good rider on any kite and they will be a good rider but you cant put a numpty on "the best" kite and expect them to ride like a pro!!!
i think the point im trying to make is a kite is only a conduit for the pilots skill.

snobdr I think its interesting that you're arguing foil vs LEI but as I read through this thread really you're arguing North vs Flysurfer and HQ

Are you a North Rep or something? You kinda sound like it.

I detect the persistence of someone trying to sell a brand name. :smug:

If i was a rep i would be flying a brand new quiver of one style of kite. My 4 faves are 07 12m rebel 07 14m rhino 07 9m caution answer and an 07 ozone 13m. My wife is learning also so i dont mind the crossover in wind range we both have a kite for the conditions. I wouldnt mind a set of the cautions. They are quick and make a ton of power. Almost a c shape but bow relaunch and depower. Simple bar setup also .

Carl your right but you can also agree that the right kite will make u a better rider.

Quote:

Originally posted by snobdr Depower most new bow/sle kites depower 100%

So if you let go of the handles/bar it won't go anywhere? If you're going to claim that evidence like the power/depower test at the beginning of this thread isn't any good you're really going to have to back up a claim like that with some amazing evidence of your own. I would assume you didn't mean that literally, but some evidence would add a lot of weight to your arguments, especially if you're going to dismiss the evidence provided by others.

I might be a power kite newbie but I still know a flawed argument when I see one.

exactly. the best kite for me is an arc (synergy) and i rip on it but put me on an lei and i dont ride to my potential.

Pixel we covered this in another thread but ill break it down. If i were on a bow kite and im ripping along and wipeout, i let go of the bar and the kite falls out of the sky, in essence all of the realitive power is gone. Thats why the say 100%. The kite is still out there still creating drag so some pull exisits.
The test was flawed. They tested at zenith(the least powerful position),no kite sizes were posted(in general a foil will have more power then an equal sized LEI, c kite being the least), the kites were not being flown, they were instead being pulled like a parafoil. no consideration for apparent wind or how fast the kite will fly in given wind. Or to say one kite may fly faster then another kite thus it may produce more power.

Did make me think how to do an accurate test though. Food for another thread.

another curious tidbit on why foils have more power
North rhino 12M projected area=7.4m
Speed 2 12m projected 10.3M WOW no wounder
And heres what got me
Synergy 12m=7.4M
Is a 12m PL compairable to a 12M LEI? In power and windrange?

snobdr....

maybe you stated this before but what is your personal experience with depower water relaunchable foil kites?

I don't care to hear what you've heard from other people or what you've seen people do. I want to know what your personal experience hooked into a water specific foil kite has been.

before you answer I would suggest you consider that any kite takes a few hours of time riding behind it in order to start REALLY feeling how that kite is supposed to perform. so I don't care if you traded kites for a half dozen tac's that doesn't count either. I'm talking a good day maybe 2 of evaluating a kite as a minimum.

I'm curious to hear what your response is.


Regards,
Christian

Ive had a few sessions on some flysurfers. I can tell what a kite is doing without having to ride them for a few days. Sure i wont have the timing to get the max out of jumps ect. But i can get a feel after a few runs. I guess i havent flown the kites in every different condition if thats what your getting at.
I flew enuff to know they wernt for me.

hey c'mon now...you gotta give me more details then that. if you're going to talk #@%$#! about kites you need to back it up with something.

lets hear what model flysurfers you've ridden, in what sizes and what conditions.

also I'd like to know that someone was having success on them. Otherwise I wouldn't be surprised if the kite was setup incorrectly.

For instance sometimes powerzone will let me try one of his kites. I'll fiddle with it a bit and not really do anything impressive. and then he'll take it back and boost bigger then I've ever seen. all I'm saying is that in order to bash something you need to have done a thorough evaluation first.

Also, I'm not sure if you know this but not all flysurfers are the same.

Speed 2 and Psycho 4 are worlds apart. the pulse 2 is totally different animal as well.

Pulse 1 and Pulse 2 are totally different too as well as the Speed 1.5 vs Speed 2

I have flown about 8 different flysurfer models and they all performed totally different from each other. Hell, my 15m P4 would fly totally different depending on if I moved the mixer C gallery -1cm vs -2cm

I would really like to know what 1 or 2 kites, however many it was that you tried that caused you to make up your mind that all LEI's are better then all foil kites.

Ive flown the s2 15 and 19 and the p4. Ive also flown the outlaw 8 a few ozones. I really liked the sa for the lightwind ability. In winds that light the slow speed dosent bother me much and i like the floaty feel of it. If i had the extra cash i would probably pick one up. The p4 was gusty and didnt hold its shape very well and was on the slow side compaired to what im used to. I noticed with all the foils i flew they like to do weird things when you get a little slack in the lines, like when in the waves, where as my Leis tend to hang there better. I mostly dont like the slow turning of the kites. Makes me feel like im flying a kite 3 sizes bigger. Im not much into messing with bridals and such. I did convert an old century air 7.3 to depower and pretty much had my fill of tuning with that. Ive never tangled a kite but have helped others untangle and thats something else id rather not deal with. Untangling 4 lines is enuff for me.

specific rig dependency limits a riders growth and blunts there total knowledge.

equipment dependency is dangerous.

self reliance and choices gives control to the rider

choices should be appropriate to skill and knowledge

i'm glad bloah has chosen kites that will allow him to progress.

just flew my 12 meter rhino, bottom end around 10 knots on spleene door and had it out later in the day during 20 avaraging, gusting 25. Hang time and jumping is way better than in psycho 4. Handless gusts, turns, jumps, hang time, wind range, are all better compared to P4. Also not a single pulley on that kite. Flat delta kite, WOW.
My buddy was out on 16 in 20 knots, and he didnt even felt overpowered as depower is huge on the new hybrids.

Yea i like my 14 wish it was a 16 though.

Quote:

Originally posted by snobdr Ive flown the s2 15 and 19 and the p4. Ive also flown the outlaw 8 a few ozones. I really liked the sa for the lightwind ability. In winds that light the slow speed dosent bother me much and i like the floaty feel of it. If i had the extra cash i would probably pick one up. The p4 was gusty and didnt hold its shape very well and was on the slow side compaired to what im used to. I noticed with all the foils i flew they like to do weird things when you get a little slack in the lines, like when in the waves, where as my Leis tend to hang there better. I mostly dont like the slow turning of the kites. Makes me feel like im flying a kite 3 sizes bigger. Im not much into messing with bridals and such. I did convert an old century air 7.3 to depower and pretty much had my fill of tuning with that. Ive never tangled a kite but have helped others untangle and thats something else id rather not deal with. Untangling 4 lines is enuff for me.

ha, that's funny. so basically you don't like the P4 is what all this is about. well, there's a lot of flysurfer guys that don't like the P4 either. they complain that it flies too much like an LEI except it can also collapse too. I wish flysurfer would have focused more on making foil kites that do the things foils are good at instead of trying to turn a foil into an SLE. it just isn't going to work right....


btw the P4's are very fast kites when they are properly tuned. I have compared my 10m and 15m to equivalently sized SLE's and the turning speed was very comparable. I can kiteloop the 10m as well.

unfortunately flysurfer really screwed up and made a kite that needed to be tuned before it flew right. I didn't like my 15m for 3 months until I got it tuned right and I'm still not sure how much I love the 10m. it seems to require a lot of wind. and when it is in that amount of wind it gets unstable.

People should not be required to tune a kite before they fly it out of the box. my guess is this kite design was supposed to make a lot of people cross over to foils from inflatables and I think instead it has caused the exact opposite.

on the bright side though I think they may have addressed the problem finally. powerzone just recently got a new P4 10m in and it flew right right out of the box so maybe its not too late to revive that kites reputation.

Its not only the p4, I dont like the general slow turning of the foils, I dont like having to deal with tangles, I dont like having to keep a kite in tune. I dont like a kite that loses its shape in a lull. I dont like the relaunch. I dont like how they handle gusts. I dont like the sloppy feel when depowered.
Yes i havent tried every foil out there to see if there is one that suits me more. Im just not really interested.
Theres a reason why foils are trying to match the performance of LEIs.