Sure, because they're trying to get EVERYONE to buy their kite. Which is not the same thing as saying that LEI are better. It's the difference between a Cadillac Deville and a Corvette. Sometimes you want sheer power and turning, other times you don't want to feel even the slightest bump in the road.

You tried 2 of the slowest turning flysurfers out there that in my opinion have no competition (S2 15 and 19) and a P4 in some unknown size that probably wasn't tuned right. if that means "in general" foils are slow in your opinion then okay that's your opinion. I disagree but I'm willing to do so respectfully...

I'm glad you were able to explain where your bad experience was coming from. thanks for sharing and good luck on your north and caution kites.

A lot of people around here love north kites. There is a few caution kites on the water but I think they are more of a Cali thing.

the p4 was a 12m and i tried it at the end of the day when it was tuned. When i say they turn slow, i mean they turn slower then my other kites of the same size. And i know the SA 15 and 19 are probably the slowest, but they aren ment to perform in a specific area, and they do that well.
I have no problem saying that they are "better" then my kites in this area. Most have more power for the same size, they are "better" as far as power per size, They float "better", heck they might even be better jumpers. Not a problem for me to say that. But there are areas where they dont perform, but i guess we cant talk about that.
And just because most people fly LEIs just means that most people perfer them over other kites. I guess theres no reason for that either. they would just rather fly them.

Quote:

Originally posted by snobdr I have no problem saying that they are "better" then my kites in this area. Most have more power for the same size, they are "better" as far as power per size, They float "better", heck they might even be better jumpers. Not a problem for me to say that. But there are areas where they dont perform, but i guess we cant talk about that. And just because most people fly LEIs just means that most people perfer them over other kites. I guess theres no reason for that either. they would just rather fly them.

And I'm not saying that there aren't areas where LEIs out perform foils. In fact, I wouldn't even know, never having flown an LEI. But you never seem to say that there are areas where the LEI excels, you always seem to say that LEIs out perform foils as a blanket statement. I'm not trying to disprove your arguments, I'm simply picking at the problems in the manner in which you present them.

Quote:

Originally posted by snobdr the p4 was a 12m and i tried it at the end of the day when it was tuned. When i say they turn slow, i mean they turn slower then my other kites of the same size. And i know the SA 15 and 19 are probably the slowest, but they aren ment to perform in a specific area, and they do that well. I have no problem saying that they are "better" then my kites in this area. Most have more power for the same size, they are "better" as far as power per size, They float "better", heck they might even be better jumpers. Not a problem for me to say that. But there are areas where they dont perform, but i guess we cant talk about that. And just because most people fly LEIs just means that most people perfer them over other kites. I guess theres no reason for that either. they would just rather fly them.

snobdr,

you must have missed it early on in this thread but I layed out:

I like foils because they do (A,B,C)

I still fly them instead of inflatables even though foils have problems (X, Y, Z) I still consider the advantages outweighing the disadvantages for my style. I wouldn't say they are perfect for everyone and I never did say that. but I do think they are the best solution for some people because they are different then any inflatable on the market and they can excel beyond inflatables in SOME areas.

If you stop making statements that include works like "never" "always" and instead use phrases like "my experience" or "I think" then I think people on this forum will be more willing to discuss it with you in a civil manner instead of snapping back and pointing out the flaws with how you represent your opinion.

Like i have said there are a few that have made points, then there are the rest that have added nothing. And like i said theres a reason why most people fly LEIs and theres a reason why Foil makers are trying to match their performance.
Top riders choose what they ride, and they dont ride LEIs cuz they suck.

And once again... Blanket statements. But, of course, it's us being completely unreasonable. You remind me of someone else I've had a discussion with, she stated "Logic is irrelevant" :wee: At which point you really are forced to stop bothering...

and once again someone adds nothing.

Quote:

Originally posted by snobdr and once again someone adds nothing.

There are the words of a man who has no viable argument.

one last posting for me here.

it is quite interesting how something like this comes up every year, and we've all seen how it still gets nowhere... because there is nowhere to go. its an endless conversation with zero achievable effect. We should continue to be thankful that there is more than 1 type of product to fly out there..... we have a choice of what we buy/fly so that is great. its not kite communism.... its a free market to choose whatever you want which will work for you, your style, your location....

yea, i still don't see the point of the discussion... all our experiences and viewpoints are personal, therefore remain biased no matter what. and guess what... that is OK ! its funny that when some facts and data were included into the mix... it is considered "flawed" information so its useless ..... if facts don't help to answer your questions, and opinions don't help to answer your questions.... what is left? therefore this thread will go on forever.

if you changed your posting header to display "LEI's are better FOR ME after all" , then this thread would have been over 5 pages ago. because feelings and opinions are yours alone. no one can change that.

what do you expect the responses here to be.... .this is a predominantly 'foil-based' forum.... so statements made which are attacking and condescending will be countered with similar regard.... why not post something similar on foil-zone and see what you get... and just to be consistant, make sure and speak in absolutes to achieve the same effect.

its obvious by now who will continue to fly what type of kite, and who will continue to pursue their certain types of equipment .... and we're all stubborn in what we like.... so why can't we just be content with that, part our ways and move on here....

just go out there and have fun you guys... the point is whataver you fly is a KITE. isn't that what the sport is about? FLYING KITES .... which is a means to and end of having FUN and enjoying yourself.... no matter if its a stunt kite, power kite, quad line, foil kite, box kite, lei kite, indoor kite, etc.... we all have that in common, we like to fly something.

Quote:

And I'm not saying that there aren't areas where LEIs out perform foils. In fact, I wouldn't even know, never having flown an LEI. But you never seem to say that there are areas where the LEI excels, you always seem to say that LEIs out perform foils as a blanket statement. I'm not trying to disprove your arguments, I'm simply picking at the problems in the manner in which you present them.

This post isnt about how i present my argument. And you admit you woldnt even know if one was better or not. So why post? You obviously cant add anything meaningful. Have to jump on the bandwagon though huh.
I have made statements about where LEIs excell, I am making the general statement because we are talking in general. Foils and LEIs, This post would be 100 pages if we compaired each idividual kite, or for that matter each type of kite, Foil, twinskin, bow,c kite, sle,delta,npw.

Quote:

Originally posted by snobdr Quote: And I'm not saying that there aren't areas where LEIs out perform foils. In fact, I wouldn't even know, never having flown an LEI. But you never seem to say that there are areas where the LEI excels, you always seem to say that LEIs out perform foils as a blanket statement. I'm not trying to disprove your arguments, I'm simply picking at the problems in the manner in which you present them. This post isnt about how i present my argument. And you admit you woldnt even know if one was better or not. So why post? You obviously cant add anything meaningful. Have to jump on the bandwagon though huh. I have made statements about where LEIs excell, I am making the general statement because we are talking in general. Foils and LEIs, This post would be 100 pages if we compaired each idividual kite, or for that matter each type of kite, Foil, twinskin, bow,c kite, sle,delta,npw.

I don't understand how you think snobdr... he just posted a neutral argument attempting to nullify the entire argument with some great points and you dig up the dead? Quit cutting people down man.

What i expected from this forum, was experenced based responces either for or against. Some have given that. Most here have come and add nothing but useless banter. Maven454 has posted numerous times, then states he wouldnt even know the difference. Then why post?

Quote:

Originally posted by snobdr What i expected from this forum, was experenced based responces either for or against. Some have given that. Most here have come and add nothing but useless banter. Maven454 has posted numerous times, then states he wouldnt even know the difference. Then why post?

You've said this many times. Just drop it please.

either that... or edit your signature to say:


"Signed,
Mr. Negativity"

I Agree with powerzone 100%


It has become apparent that there is no light at the end of this tunnel and the circular arguement seems to be going round and round with biased opinions and weak arguements being thrown all over the place. This tunnel seems to be getting darker and darker. whats it take to get a thread locked around here? I expected this one to be locked about 150 or so posts back.

I have become bored with this thread anyway. It ceases to amuse me.

Haha. Way to bail out Snob, but it's a little late in my opinion.

196 posts and 2500 views and the conclusion is ............................




















































just fly what you feel is right for you!!!!:wee::wee::wee:

Anybody want to bid on my 2002 Singshot on Ebay currently at 99cents?

powerzone one of the purpuses of creating this thread was to put some foil riders on LEI's and see the other side...

Quote:

Originally posted by bloah powerzone one of the purpuses of creating this thread was to put some foil riders on LEI's and see the other side...

been there, done that, got the T-shirt and now I'm stuck with a thruster I can't sell....

Quote:

Originally posted by nwsurfwakeskate Quote: Originally posted by bloah powerzone one of the purpuses of creating this thread was to put some foil riders on LEI's and see the other side... been there, done that, got the T-shirt and now I'm stuck with a thruster I can't sell....

I like my LEIs but i hate HATE having to try and sell the things unless they are current this years model kites - no one wants them otherwise, that's why i have a graveyard of them in my closet...

domdino if you have any 12's 2007 and up, I will buy some of them... let me know

Yea what do ya got dom, im always lookin to try other kites.

Foil are better It is supposed to be fun discussing which kite is better. Heck I hate Fords and much prefer Honda. Heck my Yamaha Superjet kicks a Kawisaki SXR's butt.

Have fun and argue with a smile cause it don't matter what you like better....except foils rule :wee:

Foils are better:
1)more effiecient
2)no bladders
3)harder to fly well
4)hardly anyone surfs with them
5)easy to launch and land by yourself
6)hold their value better over the years
7)plain 'ol better

I do have an early 2002 North Rhino 6m collectors kite with original lines and bar for $300. Oh the bladders have all been replaced due to them all leaking and one of the new ones leaks as well but that's not a problem. LEI=Leaky Edge Inflatable

I won this kite in a kitesurf competition back in Feb 2002. I was on a 5 meter open cell foil and smoked all the other riders in freestyle, radared speed. I crashed while doing the course race and had to go back around a bouy so I lost that but I was way up in the lead till I wiped out.

Scott

Quote:

Originally posted by snobdr Pixel we covered this in another thread but ill break it down. If i were on a bow kite and im ripping along and wipeout, i let go of the bar and the kite falls out of the sky, in essence all of the realitive power is gone. Thats why the say 100%. The kite is still out there still creating drag so some pull exisits. The test was flawed. They tested at zenith(the least powerful position),no kite sizes were posted(in general a foil will have more power then an equal sized LEI, c kite being the least), the kites were not being flown, they were instead being pulled like a parafoil. no consideration for apparent wind or how fast the kite will fly in given wind. Or to say one kite may fly faster then another kite thus it may produce more power. Did make me think how to do an accurate test though. Food for another thread.

Well, that's going to be true of any kite with kite killers, and relates a lot more to safety than actual flying characteristics. Saying that a particular kite has a particular power/depower ratio while still flying is a meaningful statistic; saying that any kite can fall out of the sky is not. That's like trying to compare the braking power of two cars by saying that they both sit equally still in the parking lot.

Also, if you're on the ground and 30mph of wind is blowing past you, you get 30mph of apparent wind. If you're in a truck with no local wind going 30mph, you're still getting 30mph of apparent wind. I'm pretty sure the kite doesn't care if the wind speed is generate by a truck or high/low pressure zones, just that air is flowing past it at 30mph. Or do you mean that it was because the kite was parked in 30mph wind rather than actually moving around the window in that same wind?

Do you have a link to that other thread? I'd be interested to read it.

I have a full quiver of 2006 fuels, ocean rodeo 6 10 and 12 which i think i'm gonna keep, an 07 slingshot link and a couple of 2005 rhinos which i like flying every now and then so i'll probably keep them, i'll probably keep all of them to be honest because i like to have them around for friends and i doubt i'll sell them for anything worth my effort packing and shipping them
I love em all i just don't really use them much :D
Tell you what though, if you're ever in southern cali you are welcome to use them
apart from the ocean rodeos i use them all the time

My fighting kite with glass coated line beats all of them.
S

My Top of the Line Team kite with 300# Kevlar says "BRING IT! Scudley!!"

Hmmmm, Wondering if I can find some 1000# kevlar to replace, eehhhhh, I mean as emergency replacement lines for my Scorp.